Class 465/466 Ramsgate summer special

[43066]

Realtime Trains | 0925 London Cannon Street to Ramsgate | 17/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 0925 departure from London Cannon Street to Ramsgate on 17/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I spotted this today at London Bridge. I think it suspended over Covid (?) but has clearly now returned.

A long, long time to spend on a 465 if travelling for the full length of the route!

 

[Trainguy34]

Out of curiosity, how do you know its a 465/466?

 

[43066]

Out of curiosity, how do you know its a 465/466?

I was standing on London Bridge P1 as it left P2!

 

[Trainguy34]

I was standing on London Bridge P1 as it left P2!

Ah, think it runs Saturdays only 2 or 3 each way

 

[JonathanH]

A long, long time to spend on a 465 if travelling for the full length of the route!

I don't think the idea is that it is being run with the idea that people board at Cannon Street.

 

[bramling]

Realtime Trains | 0925 London Cannon Street to Ramsgate | 17/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 0925 departure from London Cannon Street to Ramsgate on 17/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I spotted this today at London Bridge. I think it suspended over Covid (?) but has clearly now returned.

A long, long time to spend on a 465 if travelling for the full length of the route!

It always amazes me what people will subject themselves to for a few hours at somewhere like the seaside. Same with the way people flock to places like Meadowhall or the MetroCentre.

The idea of being stuck for 2 hours on a packed train full of screaming kids and dubious families fills me with horror. In that sense I’d say the type of train used probably isn’t the biggest problem!

 

[NorthKent1989]

There’s another special in August I think, departing from London Victoria then fast to Lewisham, Blackheath, Charlton, then same stops as Thameslink to Dartford then skip stop from there, that takes 3 1/2!

 

[43066]

It always amazes me what people will subject themselves to for a few hours at somewhere like the seaside. Same with the way people flock to places like Meadowhall or the MetroCentre.

I imagine, as per @JonathanH ’s comment, it’s envisaged as two services in one: a local metro train as far as Dartford, then an “extra” for Medway towns to the Kent coast. You’d be unlikely to travel all the way from central London.

The idea of being stuck for 2 hours on a packed train full of screaming kids and dubious families fills me with horror. In that sense I’d say the type of train used probably isn’t the biggest problem!

Quite!

 

[D6130]

There’s another special in August I think, departing from London Victoria then fast to Lewisham, Blackheath, Charlton, then same stops as Thameslink to Dartford then skip stop from there, that takes 3 1/2!

Do 465/466 units have toilets?

 

[JonathanH]

Do 465/466 units have toilets?

Yes, although only one per unit, and a 466 doesn't have a universal toilet.

466s have a derogation to continue to run without a universal toilet, but I think must now always run with a 465.

 

[OliverH68]

It did actually run last year as I used it

 

[PaulJ]

It did actually run last year as I used it

Also operated in 2021 - I was conductor on a couple of them. Here’s the service at Ramsgate on 16 June 2021.

 

[Intercity110]

Yes, although only one per unit, and a 466 doesn't have a universal toilet.

466s have a derogation to continue to run without a universal toilet, but I think must now always run with a 465.

I believe the toilet is locked out of use.

 

[MotCO]

There’s another special in August I think, departing from London Victoria then fast to Lewisham, Blackheath, Charlton, then same stops as Thameslink to Dartford then skip stop from there, that takes 3 1/2!

Is that a record for length of time of a South Eastern train service? (Other than delayed trains etc.)

 

[PaulJ]

Is that a record for length of time of a South Eastern train service? (Other than delayed trains etc.)

There’s another special in August I think, departing from London Victoria then fast to Lewisham, Blackheath, Charlton, then same stops as Thameslink to Dartford then skip stop from there, that takes 3 1/2!

2 hours 33 mins, actually. Departs summer weekdays from Victoria at 0922 calling at Lewisham, Blackheath. Charlton, Woolwich Arsenal, Plumstead, Abbey Wood, Slade Green, Dartford, Greenhithe, Gravesend, Strood, Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham, Faversham, Whitstable, Herne Bay, Margate, Broadstairs, Ramsgate. Arrives Ramsgate 1155.

.

 

[brad465]

The service (although not all of them have) also does the unusual calling pattern of running non-stop Gillingham-Faversham and vice versa, skipping Rainham and Sittingbourne. SE also don't seem to think Birchington-on-Sea is worth having on the service, even though HS services include it.

 

[NorthKent1989]

The service (although not all of them have) also does the unusual calling pattern of running non-stop Gillingham-Faversham and vice versa, skipping Rainham and Sittingbourne. SE also don't seem to think Birchington-on-Sea is worth having on the service, even though HS services include it.

Is the Gillingham fast to Faversham section a leftover from an old Bromley South service?

The Woolwich excursions in recent years tend to have odd stopping patterns, pre 2018, it was the same stops as the old Gillingham semi fasts, then in 2018 & 2019 it was the same stops in the London area as the Cannon Street to Dartford via Greenwich/Woolwich all stations service.

The service yesterday was the same as the Cannon Street to Gravesend service except it was fast from London Bridge to Lewisham.

The Victoria service will be interesting to ride on.

One question, had the Ramsgate summer specials ever ran via the Bexleyheath line or the Sidcup line? I know thee run via Woolwich (either through Lewisham or Greenwich) for historical purposes seeing as this is the outer suburban line and trains from this line use to run to Ramsgate.

 

[JonathanH]

Is the Gillingham fast to Faversham section a leftover from an old Bromley South service?

Isn't the point that it is a service for the primary seaside destinations so stopping between Gillingham and Faversham isn't necessary?

 

[NorthKent1989]

Isn't the point that it is a service for the primary seaside destinations so stopping between Gillingham and Faversham isn't necessary?

Yes I do understand this, but I was wondering if this had been a leftover from when trains used to run Medway to Faversham non stop which seemed to end upon the advent of HS1 opening

 

[JonathanH]

Yes I do understand this, but I was wondering if this had been a leftover from when trains used to run Medway to Faversham non stop which seemed to end upon the advent of HS1 opening

I don't think that is connected. Was there a time when Rainham and Sittingbourne were omitted on a routine basis from the regular services?

 

[30907]

I don't think that is connected. Was there a time when Rainham and Sittingbourne were omitted on a routine basis from the regular services?

Yes, until the mid 60s the Ramsgate portion ran fast Gillingham to Whitstable (and only the stoppers stopped at the country station that was Rainham!).

One question, had the Ramsgate summer specials ever ran via the Bexleyheath line or the Sidcup line?

1982: extensions of the North Kent semi-fast, which was I suspect typical from the time when the hourly Ramsgate train was withdrawn in favour of a second Victoria.
However, going back further:
1963: SX 2 via Sidcup, none on Saturday, 1 on Sunday via Bexleyheath and 1 via Lewisham and Woolwich (as well as the hourly semi-fast via Greenwich)
1958 (steam): 1 from Blackheath, plus Sun day trains from New Cross and Charing X, all via Woolwich. I suspect there were other untimetabled services, certainly the SE had loads of excursion sets available (some rather elderly).

 

[JonathanH]

Yes, until the mid 60s the Ramsgate portion ran fast Gillingham to Whitstable (and only the stoppers stopped at the country station that was Rainham!).

OK. I was thinking more about recent times. A look at the 2008 timetable suggests that Rainham and Sittingbourne stops were in all services.

 

[NorthKent1989]

1982: extensions of the North Kent semi-fast, which was I suspect typical from the time when the hourly Ramsgate train was withdrawn in favour of a second Victoria.
However, going back further:
1963: SX 2 via Sidcup, none on Saturday, 1 on Sunday via Bexleyheath and 1 via Lewisham and Woolwich (as well as the hourly semi-fast via Greenwich)
1958 (steam): 1 from Blackheath, plus Sun day trains from New Cross and Charing X, all via Woolwich. I suspect there were other untimetabled services, certainly the SE had loads of excursion sets available (some rather elderly).

Thanks for the info, shame they withdrew regular Ramsgate stoppers from the Woolwich line

 

[Triumph]

The following are booked 465/466 on a saturday:
0825 from CST returning at 1644 is 2 x 465
0925 from CST returning at 1744 is 2 x 466 + 1 x 465

 

[MrB]

How are these crewed, out of interest? Presumably a driver/guard change somewhere along the route, especially if the driver takes it in ECS from Gillingham before the service down to the coast?

 

[brad465]

How are these crewed, out of interest? Presumably a driver/guard change somewhere along the route, especially if the driver takes it in ECS from Gillingham before the service down to the coast?

Don't know about drivers, but a guard definitely joins/has joined for everywhere east of the Medway towns, as DOO doesn't go beyond there.

 

[43066]

Don't know about drivers, but a guard definitely joins/has joined for everywhere east of the Medway towns, as DOO doesn't go beyond there.

A driver definitely joins/has joined for the whole journey!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jun 2023 ==

How are these crewed, out of interest? Presumably a driver/guard change somewhere along the route, especially if the driver takes it in ECS from Gillingham before the service down to the coast?l

Likely to be Gillingham crews.

 

[nw1]

Is this service a seasonal extension of a standard off-peak pattern regular suburban service ex-Cannon Street, incidentally?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Was in Margate on Saturday on saw this train advertised. Thought it would be a nice express service into Cannon Street but when I saw the stops involved gave it a miss!

Would be nice to see a Summer only SE service that ran from Victoria/London Bridge, calling at a few local stations then fast down to the coast.

Last summer I went to Dover for a day trip and made a point of going from London Bridge. Never done a long distance run down the SER route before and found it not that much longer than HS1 (especially when starting in South London) and a much more interesting view from the window.

 

[30907]

Is this service a seasonal extension of a standard off-peak pattern regular suburban service ex-Cannon Street, incidentally?

No, unlike most of the historic examples. Comes empty from Gillingham.