How long before a 'Sprinter' is preserved?

[m79900]

Not counting the 153 at Llanelli, no Sprinter units have been preserved yet. Obviously, most of them still have several years left, but the 153s are quite scarce, and some of them have been heavily modified, so might it be a time that we start to see some preserved?

 

[JonathanH]

This is perhaps where too many pacers were preserved, leaving limited scope for sprinters to be preserved as well.

 

[Sm5]

This is perhaps where too many pacers were preserved, leaving limited scope for sprinters to be preserved as well.

I’d imagine the scrap value, and cost recovery from a sprinter being more than a Pacer. So those cut price deals may not as be forthcoming.

Having so many pacers preserved means a longer future, lots of spares sitting on them waiting for those that fail to make the grade to strip down.

I could imagine a few sprinters being preserved.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

So far only a few 153s have actually been sold for scrap I believe, most are in (admittedly cold) storage.
Railways that bagged a Pacer probably won't also be in the market for a 153, and I'd probably expect that 156s will be more desirable than either 153/155s or 150s purely due to being more passenger-friendly (window alignment, easier for kids to see out of, etc.) though that does assume that any are in decent shape once their mainline career ends. It's also possible that 23m vehicles will be more awkward for a lot of heritage lines, as they'll not have needed to accommodate vehicles of that length before.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So far only a few 153s have actually been sold for scrap I believe, most are in (admittedly cold) storage.
Railways that bagged a Pacer probably won't also be in the market for a 153, and I'd probably expect that 156s will be more desirable than either 153/155s or 150s purely due to being more passenger-friendly (window alignment, easier for kids to see out of, etc.) though that does assume that any are in decent shape once their mainline career ends. It's also possible that 23m vehicles will be more awkward for a lot of heritage lines, as they'll not have needed to accommodate vehicles of that length before.

I could see a 156 being sold as a panoramic unit, reseated to a much smaller number of seats aligned with the massive windows.

150s are harder to sell, the 20m Mk3 derived body just isn't interesting, even though it's been the workhorse of the commuter routes since the 80s. I'm sure someone will preserve one at least, but unlike Pacers they aren't interesting.

153/155 I could see going without any preserved. 158s probably have another 10-20 years before it needs worrying about, though will preserved lines want aircon stock? Similarly I could see 165s all being scrapped, particularly as they're hard to keep going with a lack of electronic spares.

 

[m79900]

The window size and alignment on the 153/155 fleets is no worse than the Pacers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The window size and alignment on the 153/155 fleets is no worse than the Pacers.

Yes, but the thing is they aren't as interesting as Pacers.

 

[m79900]

Yes, but the thing is they aren't as interesting as Pacers.

Opinions, opinions.

 

[SuspectUsual]

It's also possible that 23m vehicles will be more awkward for a lot of heritage lines, as they'll not have needed to accommodate vehicles of that length before.

A few have had mkIII stock in recent years but yea could be an issue for some

158s probably have another 10-20 years before it needs worrying about, though will preserved lines want aircon stock?

They can preserve them in typical Northern condition without any functioning aircon

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The window size and alignment on the 153/155 fleets is no worse than the Pacers.

The height/depth of the windows in relation to the seats is though. Not great for young children if they can't see out.

 

[43096]

A few have had mkIII stock in recent years but yea could be an issue for some

Quite a number have had Mark 3s: Severn Valley, East Lancs, NYMR, West Somerset, GCR, GCRN, Midland Railway Butterley, Mid-Norfolk, Swanage, Bo'ness & Kinneil have all had Mark 3s visit or been based there.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Quite a number have had Mark 3s: Severn Valley, East Lancs, NYMR, West Somerset, GCR, GCRN, Midland Railway Butterley, Mid-Norfolk, Swanage, Bo'ness & Kinneil have all had Mark 3s visit or been based there.

The KWVR had the prototype power car a few years ago so I assume they were mk 3s that we’re with it

 

[Anonymous10]

Yes, but the thing is they aren't as interesting as Pacers.

When you say aren't as interesting, do the public care if they're interesting? I'd argue they prefer good window alignment and a comfortable seat when on heritage lines.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

How many of these preserved mk3s are in traffic and in regular use on their respective home railways? Presumably most of them (particularly the sleepers) are used as static facilities rather than being pulled back and forth by the resident steam fleet.

 

[Iskra]

153’s could be ideal for smaller heritage railways, for railways to keep a service running during low season or for railways wanting to keep fuel bills down. I can see them being snapped up. Bubblecars have been fairly popular and these are just a more modern version with the advantage of being able to run two together more advantageously.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

153’s could be ideal for smaller heritage railways, for railways to keep a service running during low season or for railways wanting to keep fuel bills down. I can see them being snapped up. Bubblecars have been fairly popular and these are just a more modern version with the advantage of being able to run two together more advantageously.

I can only realistically see them being wanted by those railways that didn't get a Pacer when those were retired. Heritage DMUs (of however many cars) have the advantage of the forward view (though only in one direction in the case of the 'bubblecars'), and the definite "old fashioned" feel thanks to the slam doors and droplight windows. I can't see 153s having much nostalgia appeal for another 10+ years to be honest.

 

[AndrewE]

What have 153s got to do with sprinters?
To my mind 150s were a real success, turning something else into dog boxes may have been a good idea or necessary step, but if you want to preserve something then go for a 150 or a 156 - good units - or a 158 (was that the first Super-sprinter - because it was air conditioned?)

 

[pokemonsuper9]

What have 153s got to do with sprinters?

153s are sprinters.

 

[AndrewE]

153s are sprinters.

Having commuted on them, they are most certainly not. Sprinters may be speedy, but a certain level of comfort is implied too!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Having commuted on them, they are most certainly not. Sprinters may be speedy, but a certain level of comfort is implied too!

Your opinion does not make a 153 not a Sprinter.

 

[43096]

The KWVR had the prototype power car a few years ago so I assume they were mk 3s that we’re with it

Yes forgot that one. And there was also a visit from an EMT HST set.

I was on both!

 

[sprinterguy]

To my mind 150s were a real success, turning something else into dog boxes may have been a good idea or necessary step, but if you want to preserve something then go for a 150 or a 156 - good units - or a 158 (was that the first Super-sprinter - because it was air conditioned?)

155s were the first of the Super Sprinter series, with their longer carriages, end doors and lower density seating layout, followed by the 156s.

158s were Sprinter Express at the time of their procurement.

 

[bramling]

I could see a 156 being sold as a panoramic unit, reseated to a much smaller number of seats aligned with the massive windows.

150s are harder to sell, the 20m Mk3 derived body just isn't interesting, even though it's been the workhorse of the commuter routes since the 80s. I'm sure someone will preserve one at least, but unlike Pacers they aren't interesting.

153/155 I could see going without any preserved. 158s probably have another 10-20 years before it needs worrying about, though will preserved lines want aircon stock? Similarly I could see 165s all being scrapped, particularly as they're hard to keep going with a lack of electronic spares.

150s are a curious one. The original facing seat layout is fine, but I’ve never been a fan of the 150/2 layout with 2+3 airline seating. GWR and TFL have refurbished theirs to a much better layout, to the point where they’re actually rather nice to travel in - indeed for the first time I’ve actually grown to like 150/2s. I certainly wouldn’t mind some being preserved.

 

[DDB]

With first gen DMU you can see into the drivers cab and out the front. That makes the view much better than you are going to get in a sprinter.

I can't remember if you can see out the front of a pacer as a passenger?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I can't remember if you can see out the front of a pacer as a passenger?

you can't (at least not 142s, I don't have experience with others)

 

[pdeaves]

Heritage DMUs (of however many cars) have the advantage of the forward view (though only in one direction in the case of the 'bubblecars'), and the definite "old fashioned" feel thanks to the slam doors and droplight windows

Interestingly, I was on a heritage railway recently where a Pacer was in use. The general public was either ambivalent or expressed pleasure at the ride (quote one elderly lady: "Oooh, this is much more modern!"). Maybe the forward view and old-fashioned-ness are not essential in the right circumstances.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When you say aren't as interesting, do the public care if they're interesting? I'd argue they prefer good window alignment and a comfortable seat when on heritage lines.

The popularity of steam would suggest that it is a factor.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2023 ==

you can't (at least not 142s, I don't have experience with others)

I have been on a couple where the blind on the cab door was stuck up. Surprised heritage railways don't do that, or replace the later obscured glass with clear.

 

[AndrewE]

Your opinion does not make a 153 not a Sprinter.

Half a 2-car unit ceases to be a sprinter. How many (hundreds of) hours have you travelled on one? My opinion is sound as far as I am concerned.
I gather the drivers found out that one of the cabs was unacceptably cramped too - as it still is.

 

[Anonymous10]

you can't (at least not 142s, I don't have experience with others)

You also can't on a 143 unsure about 144s

 

[LUYMun]

I'd imagine unlikely for preserved railways, given that third second gen BR rolling stock look out of place at a 1960s station. I'd imagine it'll be less likely for a mainline charter company to preserve a Sprinter unit in that regard.