Remaining Effects of Covid

[DustyBin]

One unfortunate matter is that virus strains seem to have an annoying habit of developing new varieties. The "Common Cold" being a good example to quote and that is why the pharmaceutical laboratories are on a year-round reseach and development of vaccines.

Yes, SARS-CoV-2 has certainly produced a few variants!

Whilst some were reported as being able to evade both vaccine derived and natural immunity, at least in part, I’m not convinced it was a major issue.

Flu for example is different; a new strain appears each year and the vulnerable need the protection offered by the vaccine. Unfortunately they don’t always get the vaccine right, which is reflected in the annual flu death statistics.

 

[Cowley]

Right. For this thread to stay open it’s going to have to remain sensible and civilised.

There’s been enough unpleasantness over the subject over the last few years and none of the staff team want to go back to dealing with that kind of stuff I’m sure you can imagine.

Please keep it civil, informative and useful.

Thank you.

 

[yorkie]

One particular effect of the Covid pandemic that seems to be continuing is the annual booster injection programme.

Not really an "effect"; the proportion of people who might benefit from a booster at this point is likely to be very small anyway.

Indeed unless someone is immunocompromised in some way that boosters may help, it's unlikely to be worth considering getting a booster, but it's a whole different topic really.

On a serious note, whilst the booster may well be of benefit to the most vulnerable, I’m not at all convinced anybody else needs it. Unlike flu there is only a single strain of covid, so natural immunity should be perfectly adequate.

Absolutely.

One unfortunate matter is that virus strains seem to have an annoying habit of developing new varieties. The "Common Cold" being a good example to quote and that is why the pharmaceutical laboratories are on a year-round reseach and development of vaccines.

The "common cold" is not "an example" of a virus; it is a colloquial term we use to describe symptoms derived from the four (and arguably now five) human coronaviruses and over a hundred rhinoviruses; they live with us in a state of endemic equilibrium and are constantly adapting.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2023 ==

Yes, SARS-CoV-2 has certainly produced a few variants!

Whilst some were reported as being able to evade both vaccine derived and natural immunity, at least in part, I’m not convinced it was a major issue.

What we observed with SARS-CoV-2 was not in any way inconsistent with expectations; actual virology experts had widely predicted the virus would evolve to adapt for humans and that is exactly what it has done, and is continuing to do.

The people who attempted to scare people over variants tended not to be actual virologists, for example Eric Ding, who is a nutritional epidemiologist, was often quoted in the media, because his sensational remarks were deemed newsworthy. However actual virologists would give more measured comments and that isn't what certain media outlets want.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The "common cold" is not "an example" of a virus; it is a colloquial term we use to describe symptoms derived from the four (and arguably now five) human coronaviruses and over a hundred rhinoviruses; they live with us in a state of endemic equilibrium and are constantly adapting.

Sorry for "dumbing down" the language levels by descending into the vernacular...

 

[yorksrob]

On a serious note, whilst the booster may well be of benefit to the most vulnerable, I’m not at all convinced anybody else needs it. Unlike flu there is only a single strain of covid, so natural immunity should be perfectly adequate.

Quite, which is why it's only offered to those who are vulnerable and their carers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite, which is why it's only offered to those who are vulnerable and their carers.

Personally I'd like to have another booster and would pay for one as per the flu jab, I find it quite odd that this is not offered if they have a load of doses to use up.

 

[yorksrob]

Personally I'd like to have another booster and would pay for one as per the flu jab, I find it quite odd that this is not offered if they have a load of doses to use up.

Yes, I'm surprised if it isn't offered more widely for a charge.

 

[birchesgreen]

Personally I'd like to have another booster and would pay for one as per the flu jab, I find it quite odd that this is not offered if they have a load of doses to use up.

To be honest, considering the absolute shower in charge now it wouldn't surprise me if they'd just forgotten about them and millions of pounds worth of doses will be allowed to expire.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Quite, which is why it's only offered to those who are vulnerable and their carers.

That is not what was said in the wording of the poster in my GP surgery, which said that Covid booster injections are now available to the over-18s, but priority would be given to those in the older age ranges. That is not a poster that has been on display for a long period of time.

 

[Darandio]

That is not what was said in the wording of the poster in my GP surgery, which said that Covid booster injections are now available to the over-18s, but priority would be given to those in the older age ranges. That is not a poster that has been on display for a long period of time.

Maybe they have leftover and soon to expire medicine. It's certainly not the main policy to do so.

 

[yorksrob]

That is not what was said in the wording of the poster in my GP surgery, which said that Covid booster injections are now available to the over-18s, but priority would be given to those in the older age ranges. That is not a poster that has been on display for a long period of time.

That's interesting. I'm possibly projecting my view on what I think should be happening.

That said, I think that the Great British Public are quite savvy in these things. They are generally not seeking covid boosters because they know that in most cases, they don't need them.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

To be honest, considering the absolute shower in charge now it wouldn't surprise me if they'd just forgotten about them and millions of pounds worth of doses will be allowed to expire.

Are you really being serious about the lack of knowledge of stocks of the said doses or are you just attempting to make a political point? Are you saying that it is the politicians and not those in charge of the stock levels of all medicines who are to blame?

 

[Chrysalis]

They’ve got to use all of those doses we paid for in advance somehow!

On a serious note, whilst the booster may well be of benefit to the most vulnerable, I’m not at all convinced anybody else needs it. Unlike flu there is only a single strain of covid, so natural immunity should be perfectly adequate.

I had covid less than a month ago and it annoyed me so much I looked into getting a booster dose. Unfortunately, not everyone is entitled to it anymore. It's only those aged 75 or over or those in various risk groups.

I know you were probably only joking about using up all the doses that were purchased, but will add the following in case you weren't. I'm pretty certain the doses only have a certain shelf life, so those purchased at the beginning of the pandemic (or even in 2021 or early 2022 I expect) would have been thrown away if not used by now. Also, if I'm not mistaken it was mainly the Astra zeneca and Pfizer vaccines that were purchased. They mainly use other types now.

Lastly. There are many strains of covid. The virus mutates extremely easy.

There's a lot of misinformation out there in terms of covid...

 

[takno]

I had covid less than a month ago and it annoyed me so much I looked into getting a booster dose. Unfortunately, not everyone is entitled to it anymore. It's only those aged 75 or over or those in various risk groups.

I know you were probably only joking about using up all the doses that were purchased, but will add the following in case you weren't. I'm pretty certain the doses only have a certain shelf life, so those purchased at the beginning of the pandemic (or even in 2021 or early 2022 I expect) would have been thrown away if not used by now. Also, if I'm not mistaken it was mainly the Astra zeneca and Pfizer vaccines that were purchased. They mainly use other types now.

Lastly. There are many strains of covid. The virus mutates extremely easy.

There's a lot of misinformation out there in terms of covid...

There was a substantial programme to donate unused doses to other countries. No idea if we participated.

I'm sure somebody will be along shortly to explain the difference between a variant and a strain, how "mutates really easily" isn't particularly true in comparison with other viruses, and how you may inadvertently be contributing to the misinformation.

 

[Chrysalis]

There was a substantial programme to donate unused doses to other countries. No idea if we participated.

I'm sure somebody will be along shortly to explain the difference between a variant and a strain, how "mutates really easily" isn't particularly true in comparison with other viruses, and how you may inadvertently be contributing to the misinformation.

I apologise if you feel that I contribute to misinformation.

I did not intend to compare with other viruses. I said what I said because the average person doesn't have a clue how fast virus in general mutates.

There is no universally accepted definition for the word "strain" when it comes to biology. During my close to nine years of university studies we were not taught anything other than strain meaning a different type of a certain species of microorganism. Nonetheless, I did some quick research and the rules appear to be different when it comes to covid, for whatever reason, where a strain refers to changes in physical properties, a variant merely refers to changes in the genetic code. In any case, some early papers on covid refers to "variants" as "strains", so I do not think it was unreasonable of me to use the term "strain". Lastly, considering that many types of mutations actually do lead to changes in structure at a protein level I'm not convinced that you can even say that out of all the covid variants, none of them can be seen as strains.

Again, I do apologise if I offended you.

 

[takno]

I apologise if you feel that I contribute to misinformation.

I did not intend to compare with other viruses. I said what I said because the average person doesn't have a clue how fast virus in general mutates.

There is no universally accepted definition for the word "strain" when it comes to biology. During my close to nine years of university studies we were not taught anything other than strain meaning a different type of a certain species of microorganism. Nonetheless, I did some quick research and the rules appear to be different when it comes to covid, for whatever reason, where a strain refers to changes in physical properties, a variant merely refers to changes in the genetic code. In any case, some early papers on covid refers to "variants" as "strains", so I do not think it was unreasonable of me to use the term "strain". Lastly, considering that many types of mutations actually do lead to changes in structure at a protein level I'm not convinced that you can even say that out of all the covid variants, none of them can be seen as strains.

Again, I do apologise if I offended you.

There seemed to be a lot of rapid drift in terminology throughout Covid, partly driven by the need to be more precise about what was happening, and partly because people with a previous or non-specialist understanding of virology suddenly had to catch up with several years of development in what has throughout this century been a very active field.

AIUI a wider understanding of the differences between these two concepts became important because Coronaviruses are much less likely to see large-scale changes than flu viruses, and because variants are largely unlikely to be vaccine resistant. I'm not an expert of course, but I did consume a fairly tedious number of papers and explainers on it during lockdown.

 

[DustyBin]

I had covid less than a month ago and it annoyed me so much I looked into getting a booster dose. Unfortunately, not everyone is entitled to it anymore. It's only those aged 75 or over or those in various risk groups.

I know somebody in exactly the same position. If you’ve just been infected what benefit would a booster provide? That’s a genuine question incidentally, I’m not trying to tell you or anybody else what to do!

I know you were probably only joking about using up all the doses that were purchased, but will add the following in case you weren't. I'm pretty certain the doses only have a certain shelf life, so those purchased at the beginning of the pandemic (or even in 2021 or early 2022 I expect) would have been thrown away if not used by now. Also, if I'm not mistaken it was mainly the Astra zeneca and Pfizer vaccines that were purchased. They mainly use other types now.

It was slightly tongue in cheek, however my understanding was that we committed to buying X number of doses, with deliveries continuing for the foreseeable future. I may be mistaken, and how many of the doses paid for have actually been delivered to date I’ve no idea. I’d imagine the data exists though.

Lastly. There are many strains of covid. The virus mutates extremely easy.

There's a lot of misinformation out there in terms of covid...

My understanding of this is the same as that of @takno above, i.e. there is single strain with many variants. I’m not an expert either, but this seems to be widely accepted within the scientific community.

 

[Chrysalis]

I know somebody in exactly the same position. If you’ve just been infected what benefit would a booster provide? That’s a genuine question incidentally, I’m not trying to tell you or anybody else what to do!


My understanding of this is the same as that of @takno above, i.e. there is single strain with many variants. I’m not an expert either, but this seems to be widely accepted within the scientific community.

It is my understanding that the booster dose protects against several variants, whilst when you're infected you're only ill with one variant. Who's to say there aren't more variants around the UK than the one I was infected with? I really hate being ill and it's just not worth the risk to me.
The "scientific community" is rather large with tons of specialisations. Maybe I'm just a potato working with a bunch of other potatoes but people at my (scientific) work place use the terms strain and variant interchangeably when talking about covid.

 

[island]

Some COVID policies are still in effect at my church. Priests and ministers wear masks whilst distributing Holy Communion, the shared chalice has not been reinstituted, and the shaking of hands to share the peace is not happening either.

 

[duncanp]

Some COVID policies are still in effect at my church. Priests and ministers wear masks whilst distributing Holy Communion, the shared chalice has not been reinstituted, and the shaking of hands to share the peace is not happening either.

At my church the clergy don't wear masks and shaking of hands when sharing the peace is allowed.

However the shared chalice has not been reinstated.

This is in the Church of England.

Are you in a different denomination?

 

[VauxhallandI]

At my church the clergy don't wear masks and shaking of hands when sharing the peace is allowed.

However the shared chalice has not been reinstated.

This is in the Church of England.

Are you in a different denomination?

Well it can’t be “Science- tology”

 

[island]

Are you in a different denomination?

Roman Catholic.

 

[duncanp]

Roman Catholic.

I know other Roman Catholic churches where the clergy don't wear masks and shaking of the hands during the peace is permitted.

So maybe individual Catholic churches are allowed to make their own decisions in these matters, or perhaps the relevant bishop is particularly maskivist.

 

[Crossover]

I had covid less than a month ago and it annoyed me so much I looked into getting a booster dose. Unfortunately, not everyone is entitled to it anymore. It's only those aged 75 or over or those in various risk groups.

On the flip side, plenty of us have had sore throats, runny noses etc and haven’t a clue whether it was Covid or not as we didn’t test. Whatever I had the other week I got over within a matter of days and I carried on pretty much as normal.

I’ve been jabbed more times than I care to remember. Whether I’ll be eligible for yet another booster I don’t know, but in truth, I won’t be losing sleep over it either way

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2023 ==

I know other Roman Catholic churches where the clergy don't wear masks and shaking of the hands during the peace is permitted.

So maybe individual Catholic churches are allowed to make their own decisions in these matters, or perhaps the relevant bishop is particularly maskivist.

I attended a mass a few months ago with my other half and her family (I think it was around Christmas time, though it doesn’t seem so long since) and it seemed to be completely normal. It may or may not have been a shared chalice (I didn’t take communion) but there were no masks and hands were shaken during the peace

 

[island]

I know other Roman Catholic churches where the clergy don't wear masks and shaking of the hands during the peace is permitted.

So maybe individual Catholic churches are allowed to make their own decisions in these matters, or perhaps the relevant bishop is particularly maskivist.

I know our Archbishop (Southwark) allows parishes to set their own policies.

 

[52290]

In my Anglican church everything is back to normal. However a significant number of the congregation choose not to receive from the shared chalice.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Now the Christian side have been heard, has anyone any views from the other large religions?

 

[VauxhallandI]

Religion and science, pass me the popcorn

 

[brad465]

In what is IMO a surprise inclusion, the covid inquiry has heard a lawyer state the consequences of a national lockdown on non-covid factors were given little thought:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65876922

Lawyer hints at where UK planning may have been lacking​

The opening statement by Hugo Keith KC, counsel for the inquiry, has dropped strong hints about the areas of UK pandemic preparedness which might have been lacking before the virus struck in January 2020.
He said flu was seen as the main risk and questioned whether other disease risks were considered.
Decision makers appear to have been taken by surprise and issues like the unequal impact of a virus on the vulnerable seem not to have been considered before, Keith explained.
He raised the question of funding and resources for the NHS. And, intriguingly, the inquiry KC added that there seemed to have been very little thought about a national lockdown and a failure to think through the consequences for education and the economy.

 

[MikeWM]

In what is IMO a surprise inclusion, the covid inquiry has heard a lawyer state the consequences of a national lockdown on non-covid factors were given little thought:

I'm not sure why it would have been given thought though. Before we all decided simultaneously to copy China, there was a total consensus in public health that 'quarantining the healthy' was something that you simply didn't even consider. Why spend a lot of time and money planning for something you're not going to do? For whatever reason, that all changed over the course of a few weeks in March 2020.

It would be most interesting if the enquiry would examine what totally changed the course of the government between March 12th and March 16th 2020, when it suddenly decided to throw away its pandemic plan and go with something utterly different and crazy. But I strongly suspect that's something we're never going to find out the proper answer to.