Trivia: Air conditioning on UK buses

[josh-j]

What exactly is the difference between "air con" and "air chiller"? I'd have thought in most people's minds something that cools the air is Aircon, it's just either strong or weak?

Technically I thought actual air conditioning meant humidity control etc not just cooling. But that doesn't mean a "technically not air con" system can't provide bucket loads of cooling.

 

[K4016td]

In simple words air-conditioning uses a compressor and works on the same principle as an ordinary household fridge, pumping out the hot air outside and replacing it with chilled one, that why it requires windows to be shut to be most effective. Air chiller on the other hand is a just a sophisticated way to describe an ordinary fan with access to fresh air from outside, hence its ineffectiveness in really hot temperatures. Think of it as a fan put in front of an open window, it will bring some breeze, but once the temperatures are really hot it will make no actual difference.

 

[RJ]

The only current London bus (AFAIK) that has proper aircon fitted was the one-off tri-axle bus that Go Ahead London have in their fleet (fleetnumber TA1) and is advertised as such:

GAL TA1 May19

St Georges Circus, May 2019

www.flickr.com

London United had proper aircon on their airbus vehicles and a batch of Dart SLF's used on routes around Heathrow but all are now long gone.

The system fitted to many London Buses, including the New Routemaster is an air chill system - not full on aircon and is not very effective (about as effective as the white painted roofs on a proper hot sunny day!). They may "chill" the air if everyone keeps all the windows shut and reduce ambient temperature by a couple of degrees but if the temperature is about 80 degrees it makes virtually no difference at all. You will immediately notice proper aircon if you travel on buses in places such as Hong Kong and Singapore as a for instance.

A load of Mercedes Citaros running in London are equipped with air con. It can clearly be seen on the roof, but it is usually isolated by removing the compressor. All of the Citaros I’ve acquired had it removed previously, it’s a job getting it working again.

 

[busesrusuk]

A load of Mercedes Citaros running in London are equipped with air con. It can clearly be seen on the roof, but it is usually isolated by removing the compressor. All of the Citaros I’ve acquired had it removed previously, it’s a job getting it working again.

Which buses are/were they? The Go Ahead London ones don't have air con apart form cab aircon for the drivers..

 

[Jamesrob637]

First Plymouth had some in the late-90s and early-00s however they were retrofitted with hopper windows after just a couple of years in service.

 

[RJ]

Which buses are/were they? The Go Ahead London ones don't have air con apart form cab aircon for the drivers..

The Go Ahead MECs 1-50 at least do have air conditioning on board - it’s the operator’s choice to isolate it.

 

[JD2168]

Air conditioning is fitted to no London buses I know of.

The NBfL (New Bus for London) has a very weak cooling system that may as well not be there. Most other London buses have extractor fans which do help airflow and removing the damp smell many buses have, but don't cool the air.

When I have caught the ex London B9TL’s & some of the Presidents when they operated in Sheffield they appear to have air conditioning systems fitted with the vents in the roof & at the rear. This is what made me think of this.

The Bristol Airport Flyer B7RLE’s now on D1 with some in Sheffield have air conditioning machines fitted. Also the for Essex Park & Ride B7RLE’s have this fitted as well to the roof.

 

[MotCO]

When I have caught the ex London B9TL’s & some of the Presidents when they operated in Sheffield they appear to have air conditioning systems fitted with the vents in the roof & at the rear. This is what made me think of this.

I think that these were air-chill units - often fitted over the top of the window above the stairs.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The B7RLEs originally ordered for the York P&R (69363-69379) and the 15 Mercedes arctics (11101-11115) all have air con. On the B7RLEs most of them have since had it disabled for fuel economy, but there are still some with it working (69367 being an example of this).

The Metrodeckers that replaced these (39502-39524) have AC for the driver, and (weak) air cooling for the passenger saloon

Aberdeen have 11106/8-15 now and i'm yet to see the aircon working on any of them. The hopper windows and radiators do a good enough job, i've never found them to be too hot or too cold.

 

[dodecahedron67]

Aberdeen have 11106/8-15 now and i'm yet to see the aircon working on any of them. The hopper windows and radiators do a good enough job, i've never found them to be too hot or too cold.

If it's anything like York, engineering don't like fixing the AC whenever a fault occurs - a lot of pestering is needed for any of 11101-5 to get broken AC fixed, but funny enough you'll find all 5 have working AC as soon as the temperature goes above 25...

 

[Strathclyder]

I think that these were air-chill units - often fitted over the top of the window above the stairs.

This is what the First Glasgow B9s cited in post #2 by @JD2168 had. Only the 57-plate B9 deliveries have/had these (complete with sealed top deck windows as delivered); the 07, 08/58 & 09 deliveries didn't. In my experience, they rarely worked when you wanted them to: when the temperature tipped above 20C. The examples of this batch that worked out of Dumbarton on the 1C/1D (37214 & 37217-227) could turn into ovens in summer, the only real relief was when the bus was speeding along the Clydeside Expressway towards/away from the city centre.

The sole ex-London Gemini B7 (LK55 ACO/32657) also had a similar unit above the stairs, but rarely if ever worked during it's Glasgow career (2011/12-2021).

32657 (LK55 ACO) - First Glasgow

Amongst all the 54, 07, 08 and 09 plate Gemini's I drove during my time in Glasgow, I did get to drive one odd ball - this ex-London 55 plate example. Not sure if it's the only one in the fleet, but it's the only one I saw going about and was quite pleased to get a shot of it. A rare quiet...

www.flickr.com

As the First Glasgow E500s have already been mentioned, the same company's East Lanc Nordic-bodied B7Ls that predated them also had air-con fitted (I distinctly remember the stickers either side of the destination display denoting this in their early years), but also had opening hoppers from new.

FIRST GLASGOW VT2 SA52DVT

SA52DVT was a Volvo B7L / East Lancs Nordic H55/40F new as First Glasgow VT2 in November 2002, seen in Clydebank. On disposal it joined MASS Transport/Brightbus for school contracts.

www.flickr.com

 

[Busman84]

The Glasgow Geminis 57,08,58 plates had air con inside (not air chill like TFL buses) that was why upstair had no opening windows. These buses spent most of there early years in Larkfield and the air con did work in them.
Larkfield had a heating/air con person who would regas/fix any issues both Gemini and E500s. They did move them years later to other depots (eg Dumbarton) and by then nobody was there to deal with air con issues so buses would be roasting and complaints would build up. Eventually the decision to have opening windows was made this happened with all air con buses. Not sure if any of these vehicles now have the air con units permanently switched off or blow warm air out.

 

[Strathclyder]

The Glasgow Geminis 57,08,58 plates had air con inside (not air chill like TFL buses) that was why upstair had no opening windows. These buses spent most of there early years in Larkfield and the air con did work in them.

I see, cheers for the correction with respect to the air-con status of the B9 Geminis as new.

 

[Snow1964]

What exactly is the difference between "air con" and "air chiller"? I'd have thought in most people's minds something that cools the air is Aircon, it's just either strong or weak?

Technically I thought actual air conditioning meant humidity control etc not just cooling. But that doesn't mean a "technically not air con" system can't provide bucket loads of cooling.

A chiller can only cool the air

Air conditioning includes dehumidifier, so can remove humidity too, and in the cooler months, remove condensation and clear misted (steamed up) windows , and dry moisture if anyone gets on with dripping coats in wet weather.

Air Conditioners can adjust the temperature, both up or down, if required, chillers can't act as heaters if too cold

 

[josh-j]

To be honest then I think most people would call a chiller Air Con even if technically not correct

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be honest then I think most people would call a chiller Air Con even if technically not correct

It's an interesting point, but I'm not sure people would call it air conditioning unless it is capable of maintaining a decent level of cooling. These bus systems can't, they just cool the air a bit.

 

[tomuk]

To be honest then I think most people would call a chiller Air Con even if technically not correct

In

It's an interesting point, but I'm not sure people would call it air conditioning unless it is capable of maintaining a decent level of cooling. These bus systems can't, they just cool the air a bit.

But what are we actually talking about? A water based evaporation air cooler which just blows air over a saturated media aka swamp cooler. An refrigerant based air conditioner as fitted to most cars these days and a number of homes and offices. Or are we getting into an air conditioning system that cools the air then adds back moisture and heat as required such as fitted to large office buildings.