Trivia: Air conditioning on UK buses

[Simon75]

In the late 90s/eary 00 Arriva North West (Crewe) had new Dennis Darts with air conditioning on the 6 Shavington to Leighton Hospital.
Historically and current, have many buses had air conditioning in the UK?

 

[JD2168]

A number of First Glasgow B9TL’s were fitted with air conditioning upstairs but standard opening windows have now been fitted.

Air conditioning is also fitted to majority of London Buses, one example being the NBFL Routemaster which had opening windows retrofitted.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A number of First Glasgow B9TL’s were fitted with air conditioning upstairs but standard opening windows have now been fitted.

Air conditioning is also fitted to majority of London Buses, one example being the NBFL Routemaster which had opening windows retrofitted.

Air conditioning is fitted to no London buses I know of.

The NBfL (New Bus for London) has a very weak cooling system that may as well not be there. Most other London buses have extractor fans which do help airflow and removing the damp smell many buses have, but don't cool the air.

 

[Mikw]

Some of the electric vehicles around here have aircon, and were a godsend last summer on those really hot days - they're rarely turned on though.

 

[DunsBus]

GRT Bus Group tried aircon on 60 buses (one MB O.405 artic, 49 MB O.405 rigids and 10 Scania N113s) as part of the upmarket GRT Advance SE spec. It wasn't very successful and all of the buses fitted with it had the systems switched off within a couple of years.

 

[BJames]

Air conditioning is fitted to no London buses I know of.

The NBfL (New Bus for London) has a very weak cooling system that may as well not be there. Most other London buses have extractor fans which do help airflow and removing the damp smell many buses have, but don't cool the air.

I may be misremembering but I'm pretty sure that the buses Sullivan have on 217s have aircon (I'm not great with vehicle types but it's the bus that you can see in this article https://cbwmagazine.com/win-for-sullivan-buses-in-latest-tfl-tender-results/) - I just feel like I can remember being surprised as compared to the 231s on an equally hot day it was quite a difference.

 

[busesrusuk]

The only current London bus (AFAIK) that has proper aircon fitted was the one-off tri-axle bus that Go Ahead London have in their fleet (fleetnumber TA1) and is advertised as such:

GAL TA1 May19

St Georges Circus, May 2019

www.flickr.com

London United had proper aircon on their airbus vehicles and a batch of Dart SLF's used on routes around Heathrow but all are now long gone.

The system fitted to many London Buses, including the New Routemaster is an air chill system - not full on aircon and is not very effective (about as effective as the white painted roofs on a proper hot sunny day!). They may "chill" the air if everyone keeps all the windows shut and reduce ambient temperature by a couple of degrees but if the temperature is about 80 degrees it makes virtually no difference at all. You will immediately notice proper aircon if you travel on buses in places such as Hong Kong and Singapore as a for instance.

I don't understand the comment about the aircon not being very successful as mentioned above - why wasn't it successful? It works perfectly fine on coaches where aircon is pretty much universal now as well as working perfectly well in buses across SE Asia and the US along with many European countries. I suspect the lack of "success" was the fact that fuel consumption went up along with the cost of ensuring the systems were properly maintained. It also relies on the driver actually switching it on(!).

 

[tomuk]

The only current London bus (AFAIK) that has proper aircon fitted was the one-off tri-axle bus that Go Ahead London have in their fleet (fleetnumber TA1) and is advertised as such:

GAL TA1 May19

St Georges Circus, May 2019

www.flickr.com

London United had proper aircon on their airbus vehicles and a batch of Dart SLF's used on routes around Heathrow but all are now long gone.

The system fitted to many London Buses, including the New Routemaster is an air chill system - not full on aircon and is not very effective (about as effective as the white painted roofs on a proper hot sunny day!). They may "chill" the air if everyone keeps all the windows shut and reduce ambient temperature by a couple of degrees but if the temperature is about 80 degrees it makes virtually no difference at all. You will immediately notice proper aircon if you travel on buses in places such as Hong Kong and Singapore as a for instance.

I don't understand the comment about the aircon not being very successful as mentioned above - why wasn't it successful? It works perfectly fine on coaches where aircon is pretty much universal now as well as working perfectly well in buses across SE Asia and the US along with many European countries. I suspect the lack of "success" was the fact that fuel consumption went up along with the cost of ensuring the systems were properly maintained.IT also relies on the driver actually switching it on(!).

Cost it uses more diesel and more money to maintain it.

 

[STINT47]

Trentbarton have air conditioning on their B7 Volvo eclipse buses.

Most of the time it's not very good due to the system not being maintained and or passengers opening the windows despite notices saying that the air conditioning works much better with the windows closed.

I did however have a bus last week during the hot weather with working air con and it was lovely a cool, then a passenger got on and opened all of the windows and the temperature went up making the bus to warm

 

[eh1]

Lothian Buses 291-294, the electric E400 BYDs have aircon. Doesn't stop the passengers opening the windows though!

 

[DunsBus]

I don't understand the comment about the aircon not being very successful as mentioned above - why wasn't it successful? It works perfectly fine on coaches where aircon is pretty much universal now as well as working perfectly well in buses across SE Asia and the US along with many European countries. I suspect the lack of "success" was the fact that fuel consumption went up along with the cost of ensuring the systems were properly maintained. It also relies on the driver actually switching it on(!).

Exactly that. GRT, like First in its early days, had good ideas which were never followed through properly and aircon on buses was one of them - they overlooked the fact that using aircon increases fuel consumption and also that the systems also have to be regularly maintained. As soon as the costs mounted up, they were switched off.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly that. GRT, like First in its early days, had good ideas which were never followed through properly and aircon on buses was one of them - they overlooked the fact that using aircon increases fuel consumption and also that the systems also have to be regularly maintained. As soon as the costs mounted up, they were switched off.

It certainly costs more, yes, but then it's rapidly becoming a basic expectation in cars, fitted to even the cheapest models, so if you want to get people out of cars...

 

[Flange Squeal]

Stagecoach have in the past shipped Darts from, I think, their Hong Kong operations to the UK.

We had some P-reg ones at Aldershot depot and were branded for route 20 to Guildford.

I also recall Devon had some older N-reg ones which in their striped livery had branding advertising their air-con. I remember seeing them on the 85/85A through Dawlish, and having a model of one such example too.

I therefore wouldn’t be surprised if the late 90s/early 00s saw other examples imported into Stagecoach fleets elsewhere in the UK, or these ones finding themselves moving around.

In more recent times, the vehicles used on Winchester Park & Ride services have had air-con. 06-plate Enviro 300s, 10-plate Enviro 300s, and 16-plate Enviro 200MMCs. The older vehicles naturally found their way to other areas when displaced from Winchester, although I’m unsure if the air-con has remained in use (the buses have opening hopper windows too).

 

[DaveLondon]

A number of First Glasgow B9TL’s were fitted with air conditioning upstairs but standard opening windows have now been fitted.

Air conditioning is also fitted to majority of London Buses, one example being the NBFL Routemaster which had opening windows retrofitted.

I dont think any London Buses have air conditioning. They have air cooling systems. That in NBFL is particularly poor.

 

[cactustwirly]

I was on the top deck of a double decker yesterday and it was baking hot, despite only being 20 degrees outside

 

[Bletchleyite]

I dont think any London Buses have air conditioning. They have air cooling systems. That in NBFL is particularly poor.

Most don't even have that (though some do). The racket is just an extractor fan system (you can see the fans at the back of most London buses from the outside). Which to be fair does solve the "buses smell like wee" issue, as that musty smell isn't urine but rather damp, and keeping good airflow does reduce damp.

But provincial companies don't even like this, because it has a fuel penalty.

 

[WestCountry]

The original Cambridgeshire Guided Busway fleet (Enviro 400s and Eclipse B7RLEs) all had air-con. It was quite effective, and normally in use when I was using the service regularly. I don't know if that's still the case now.

 

[Spsf3232]

Enviro 500s that First Glasgow got had originally had air con and was spot on for hot days, then they went to Aberdeen and they seen the fuel bill and promptly took the air con out!

 

[edwin_m]

Pertinent discussion on the Notts/Derbys thread starting here:

Interesting that the new buses will have air conditioning. NCT have always said that air con is not practical or suitable for this country when people have asked them about it in the past.

 

[Volvodart]

Enviro 500s that First Glasgow got had originally had air con and was spot on for hot days, then they went to Aberdeen and they seen the fuel bill and promptly took the air con out!

Very few of them had air conditioning working properly when they came up from Glasgow. I can only remember one being cool on a warm day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's perfectly practical and suitable. It's just expensive. A bit of honesty would go a long way - it's vaguely understandable if the position was "we can't afford it, we'd have to withdraw the route or reduce frequency if we did".

 

[Geordie driver]

I think some people are confusing a mild fan blowing outside air with a real heat exchanger taking warm air and making it cold.

How would it work with buses that have the heating fixed on in the summer, the air conditioning would end up fighting the heating, like some kind of paradox.

Was there not something of fuss years ago where national express sold a load of second hand coaches for use taking pilgrims to Mecca, where they said the vehicles were fitted with air con and the only had little fans.

 

[dodecahedron67]

The B7RLEs originally ordered for the York P&R (69363-69379) and the 15 Mercedes arctics (11101-11115) all have air con. On the B7RLEs most of them have since had it disabled for fuel economy, but there are still some with it working (69367 being an example of this).

The Metrodeckers that replaced these (39502-39524) have AC for the driver, and (weak) air cooling for the passenger saloon

 

[Trainguy34]

I think the Stagecoach South East E400MMCs have air con above the stairs but (along with the WiFi) whether it's working is a whole different matter

 

[CBlue]

The original Cambridgeshire Guided Busway fleet (Enviro 400s and Eclipse B7RLEs) all had air-con. It was quite effective, and normally in use when I was using the service regularly. I don't know if that's still the case now.

The Scania E400 fleets on the Busway certainly didn't, they just had rather ineffective air chill systems. Since the Scanias all moved depots, the systems fell into disuse and certainly among the older ones appear to have been disconnected..


All the Busway saloons have air conditioning fitted and so far as I can tell they mostly still work.

 

[busesrusuk]

Stagecoach have in the past shipped Darts from, I think, their Hong Kong operations to the UK.

We had some P-reg ones at Aldershot depot and were branded for route 20 to Guildford.

I also recall Devon had some older N-reg ones which in their striped livery had branding advertising their air-con. I remember seeing them on the 85/85A through Dawlish, and having a model of one such example too.

I therefore wouldn’t be surprised if the late 90s/early 00s saw other examples imported into Stagecoach fleets elsewhere in the UK, or these ones finding themselves moving around.

In more recent times, the vehicles used on Winchester Park & Ride services have had air-con. 06-plate Enviro 300s, 10-plate Enviro 300s, and 16-plate Enviro 200MMCs. The older vehicles naturally found their way to other areas when displaced from Winchester, although I’m unsure if the air-con has remained in use (the buses have opening hopper windows too).

They certainly did. When Stagecoach owned citybus, Hong Kong, they imported a number of step entry Darts and a number went to Devon. They were easily spotted with the big Sutrak aircon pack on the roof. They also shipped over 50 Tri-axle aircon Olympians which formed the basis of the initial Megabus fleet. A few found their way into a dedicated rail replacement fleet subsequently but I'm pretty sure when I travelled on one they were pretty unkempt (a world away, literally, from the high standards of Citybus) and the aircon didn't seem to be working then. Here are a couple:

Stagecoach 13635 Aug04

Buckingham Palace Road, Victoria. Aug 2004

www.flickr.com

Scoach 13646 May06

Alton Station, May 2006. This bus was originally with Citybus, Hong Kong registered EV3020 (fleet number 154).

www.flickr.com

First's involvement with New World First Bus in Hong Kong also resulted in a number of Dart SLF's being imported into the UK. Can't recall where they went though..

 

[Mikey C]

The system fitted to many London Buses, including the New Routemaster is an air chill system - not full on aircon and is not very effective (about as effective as the white painted roofs on a proper hot sunny day!). They may "chill" the air if everyone keeps all the windows shut and reduce ambient temperature by a couple of degrees but if the temperature is about 80 degrees it makes virtually no difference at all. You will immediately notice proper aircon if you travel on buses in places such as Hong Kong and Singapore as a for instance.

There's never been any instructions though for passengers to keep the windows shut, presumably because it isn't full aircon, and if it was that effective they wouldn't need any opening windows.

I do find it does blow out cold air though. I've sat underneath vents giving quite chilly air out.

 

[Man of Kent]

I think the Stagecoach South East E400MMCs have air con above the stairs but (along with the WiFi) whether it's working is a whole different matter

Just the same air chiller unit that many others have referred to. Won't have been needed in this week's sub-seasonal temperatures in East Kent, but a telltale sign that it is working is the water being expelled all over the upper deck offside windows.

 

[MotCO]

Sometimes the driver's cab is air-conditioned to help make the driver's job more pleasant in hot weather - Epsom Buses' ALX Darts being such an example.

 

[K4016td]

All 7 Series Citaros in Slough were equipped with proper air-conditioning - these were great buses, in the summer I often preffered to wait an extra 15 minutes to ride on a Citaro