London Midland Class 153 Diagrams

[tbtc]

They didn't get all Central's 170s, the 170/1s and 170/3s (except 399 which went to FTPX) and a few 170/5s and 170/6s went to Cross Country. LM got the bulk of the 170/5s and just over half the 170/6s.

Apologies, I was just thinking of Central Trains splitting their stock to EMT/ LM/ ATW, I forgot about XC.

However using these 100mph units on local "all stops" services (with the exception of the Hereford duties) is a nonsense (as its permenantly coupling 153s to 170s, given the lack of corridor connection)

 

[ChrisCooper]

Apologies, I was just thinking of Central Trains splitting their stock to EMT/ LM/ ATW, I forgot about XC.

However using these 100mph units on local "all stops" services (with the exception of the Hereford duties) is a nonsense (as its permenantly coupling 153s to 170s, given the lack of corridor connection)

The problem is, what was the alternative? LM already had the whole batch of 150s from Central, which are best suited to that sort of service. The only other options would have been either 156s or 158s. 158s are even less suited to that work than 170s, being 90mph express units with end doors. 156s also are more intended for longer runs due to end doors, and then it would have been the other way around where 100mph 170s were running on various local or slow services for EMT.

Perhaps the best option would have been to get more 172s to displace some more 170s to Cross Country. Then again though, that would leave a small, none standard fleet for the Herefords. The Central fleet was split in such a way to keep it fairly standardised.

Since the XC 170s are at Tysley along with the LM ones, it would be nice if at very least LM could hire some out to XC for busy times if their own are lightly used. Coupled to a XC one the lack of first class would not be an issue.

 

[TomJ93]

The thing is they go over the Lickey, so 150s can't be used.

 

[DarloRich]

One 153 unit works on the Marston Vale line (Bedford-Bletchley). The other train is a 150.

Two opperate IF the 150 is u/s. The problem for LM is that the new 172 are too long for the platforms, two x 153 units are too long for the platforms but a 150 is not! So LM cant give away all the 153 units, nor is it a sensible use of a 150 on all diagrams (it only works the peak times) So LM have a bit of problem

However this line is ideal for a pacer..................................

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Far to simplistic sorry, add in some units working in pairs and the extras in the morning and evening peaks you will find that they are well utilised.
No TOC is going to lease trains just to leave them in the sidings, the shareholders would not stand it!!!!

Well that is the simple face of it sorry

We only ever see four of them working the Chase Line on any given day, two 170/5 working on their own, 1 170/5 with a 153 coupled to it and a 170/6

The Shrewsbury runs are taken by either 3 x 170/5 or 2 x 170/5 and a 170/6

The Hereford and Great Malvern runs are taken by 3 x 170/5 (please note that I don't know this one for a fact because I myself have never been down that way but am relying on my brother's information and sometimes, he is useless!)

Let's have a look at the other routes that LM have:

The Crewe - Euston service is run by 350/1 or 350/2 desiros
The Birmingham shuttle to International is run by 323s
The Birmingham - Coventry, Northampton or Euston service is run by 350/1 or 350/2 but mainly 350/2
The Birmingham - Liverpool runs are run by 350/1 or 350/2 desiros
The Euston - Tring, Milton Keynes Central or Northampton is run by the desiros but sometimes they might stick a 321 on the service to Northampton
The Watford Junction - St Albans service is run by the 321s
Cross City Line is run by the 323s
Coventry - Nuneaton is run by the 153s
Bletchley - Bedford is either a 153 or a 150
The Snow Hill lines are run by the 150s soon to be the 172s

Other than that, there just isn't anywhere to stick the remaining 170s unless they apply for more local routes in the midlands but I don't think there is any left!

 

[The Planner]

The thing is they go over the Lickey, so 150s can't be used.

Is there anything concrete on that as the sectional appendix has nothing to say they can't that I have found ?. They are cleared between Westerleigh and Barnt Green.

 

[TomJ93]

I've just heard, I can't remember where but they really struggle now to do Lickey. To be honest, I think they have more 323s than they need too, and they are due 17 more!

 

[sprinterguy]

Well that is the simple face of it sorry

We only ever see four of them working the Chase Line on any given day, two 170/5 working on their own, 1 170/5 with a 153 coupled to it and a 170/6

The Shrewsbury runs are taken by either 3 x 170/5 or 2 x 170/5 and a 170/6

The Hereford and Great Malvern runs are taken by 3 x 170/5 (please note that I don't know this one for a fact because I myself have never been down that way but am relying on my brother's information and sometimes, he is useless!)

Let's have a look at the other routes that LM have:

The Crewe - Euston service is run by 350/1 or 350/2 desiros
The Birmingham shuttle to International is run by 323s
The Birmingham - Coventry, Northampton or Euston service is run by 350/1 or 350/2 but mainly 350/2
The Birmingham - Liverpool runs are run by 350/1 or 350/2 desiros
The Euston - Tring, Milton Keynes Central or Northampton is run by the desiros but sometimes they might stick a 321 on the service to Northampton
The Watford Junction - St Albans service is run by the 321s
Cross City Line is run by the 323s
Coventry - Nuneaton is run by the 153s
Bletchley - Bedford is either a 153 or a 150
The Snow Hill lines are run by the 150s soon to be the 172s

Other than that, there just isn't anywhere to stick the remaining 170s unless they apply for more local routes in the midlands but I don't think there is any left!

Though my method isn’t particularly scientific and being aware that your personal experience of the Chase line is far greater than mine, I’d suggest there are five diagrams on the Chase line during peak hours (i.e. during the short portion of the day when the Chase line still has a half hourly frequency), dropping to four during the off peak, assuming that a 170 is still used on the truncated Birmingham-Walsall train that formerly continued to Rugeley, which could be tightened up to free up a train if the turn round times at Walsall and Rugeley were shortened. I'm surprised that there's only one 170+153 diagram on the Chase line. I seem to see that lash up far more frequently than one diagram would suggest would be the case.

The Birmingham-Hereford service calls for four 170s, one of which used to be the 170/5+153 formation. Additionally, some of the Hereford services operate as a pair of 170/5s at certain times of the day. I have a strong feeling that there is a 170/6 out on the Herefords at times as well.

I’ve stuck my neck out and done some maths, if somebody comes along with details of the actual diagrams and I’m proved wrong then I will happily concede to being incorrect. What I do know though is that at 16:30 every day there is a 7-carriage LM 170 ECS working from Tyseley to New Street in time for the evening peak (Either 3x170/5 plus 153, or 2x170/5 plus 170/6), so even if it often seems that there are oodles of London Midland 170s sitting at Tyseley during the off-peak (which is certainly how it appears), there’s plenty of them out making themselves useful during the peak.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To be honest, I think they have more 323s than they need too, and they are due 17 more!

4 units on the half hourly Wolves-New Street-Walsall, two on the New Street-International hourly stopper, and I’d estimate 12-14 single units for the Cross City line, remembering that there’s maybe a couple of diagrams on the Cross-City line that are for a pair of 323s. With a total fleet size of 26 trains, this reckoning would be concurrent with their usually being about three 323s visible at Soho depot during the day.

I’d say that London Midland are generally “comfortable” with their level of rolling stock utilisation as regards their local services in and around the West Midlands. They have enough trains to be able to respond to the most overcrowded services at peak times by bolstering these services with extra carriages. I wouldn’t suggest that London Midland should have the size of their train fleet reduced, as it is refreshing to see a rail operation that isn’t gasping for extra trains.

 

[tbtc]

I wouldn’t suggest that London Midland should have the size of their train fleet reduced, as it is refreshing to see a rail operation that isn’t gasping for extra trains.

I'm not saying "reduced", but they could get trains more suited to purpose. Take away the 323s and almost all LM units will be post-privatisation (look at how few post-privatisation units Northern/ FGW/ATW etc have - a few 175s, a couple of 180s, a small class of 333s)

How about giving the Hereford trips to XC (the Nottingham - Birmingham used to run through to Hereford anyway), and keeping some 170s there, then running 150s on the Shrewsbury/Rugeley stoppers? Waste of 100mph units...

(I could see the logic in increasing the 172 order to replace all LM 170s which would at least give them a common DMU fleet (and a handful of Pacers for the Bedford and Nuneaton services)

 

[TomJ93]

Psst and the 321s

How many Desiros are there needed? Apart from the Friday peaks plenty are left lying around in various places.

 

[sprinterguy]

I'm not saying "reduced", but they could get trains more suited to purpose. Take away the 323s and almost all LM units will be post-privatisation (look at how few post-privatisation units Northern/ FGW/ATW etc have - a few 175s, a couple of 180s, a small class of 333s)

How about giving the Hereford trips to XC (the Nottingham - Birmingham used to run through to Hereford anyway), and keeping some 170s there, then running 150s on the Shrewsbury/Rugeley stoppers? Waste of 100mph units...

(I could see the logic in increasing the 172 order to replace all LM 170s which would at least give them a common DMU fleet (and a handful of Pacers for the Bedford and Nuneaton services)

Yeah I certainly agree with you there. I've often thought that the 170s are not best suited for the frequent stop, medium speed Chase line services. A small fleet of 150s would be fairly ideal for the route, although I would hope in such an instance that they would undergo a thorough refurb beforehand to bring them out of their current tired appearance. In a perfect scenario of course, London Midland would have ordered enough 172 vehicles to replace all the 150s, as you say.

 

[WillPS]

Strengthening in the peaks is a luxury none of the EMT routes (except Route 1 have). Derby - Crewe is run by a single dogbox which is scarcely enough even off-peak.

 

[northernrailer]

So we have different views on a Birmingham - Hereford service, someone has posted it is now 2x class 170, and someone else posted that it is 170 + 153. Does any know which it is, before the timetable change the following services were a 170 + 153:

The Hereford diagram (153 at Birmingham end)

0705 GMV-BHM
0849 BHM-HFD
1040 HFD-BHM
1249 BHM-HFD
1440 HFD-BHM
1649 BHM-HFD
1848 HFD-BHM
2059 BHM-HFD
2255 HFD-WOS

are the above services 2x 170, or are they 170 + 153 still??

 

[IanPooleTrains]

As far as i am aware, whenever I see it at Birmingham, it is a single 170/5.

 

[sprinterguy]

So we have different views on a Birmingham - Hereford service, someone has posted it is now 2x class 170, and someone else posted that it is 170 + 153. Does any know which it is, before the timetable change the following services were a 170 + 153:

The Hereford diagram (153 at Birmingham end)

0705 GMV-BHM
0849 BHM-HFD
1040 HFD-BHM
1249 BHM-HFD
1440 HFD-BHM
1649 BHM-HFD
1848 HFD-BHM
2059 BHM-HFD
2255 HFD-WOS

are the above services 2x 170, or are they 170 + 153 still??

I'd believe Dave Rs' report that it is now 2x170/5. I meant to say "used to be the 170/5+153 combination" in my post.

 

[bnsf734]

(I could see the logic in increasing the 172 order to replace all LM 170s which would at least give them a common DMU fleet (and a handful of Pacers for the Bedford and Nuneaton services)

Nooooo

We'll stick to our 153 on the Nuneaton - Coventry thank you very much

 

[TomJ93]

No we'll have a 150 on it at Least! But I never want to see a PPM on the line.

I hate the 153!

 

[Class172]

I travel on the Hereford-Birmingham line nearly every day, as far as I know there are no 170/5+153's in operation on the line anymore. There's usually at least two 170/6's and 3 or 4 170/5's running on the line. At peak hours there are multiple workings made up of 2 170/5's or a 170/5+170/6.

The line is already seriously crowded at peak times: at droitwich spa over 80 people got off a single 170/5 unit. Compare that to its designed capacity, I often find myself sitting in the luggage racks. What would be good is to extend the 170/6's to 4 cars. Currently there is no way of increasing the frquency easily as there are single line sections between Hereford-Ledbury & Droitwich Spa-Bromsgrove; network rail is considering doubling the latter section. Chiltern could extend some of their Kidderminster-marylebone services to droitwich or Worcester, taking some pressure off the B'ham-Worcester-Hereford line

 

[RPI]

FGW have costed a proposal to DfT to take 3 LM 153's for strengthening Cornish/Devon branch services.

 

[DarloRich]

Well we will have to keep 150/153 on the Bedford -BLethcley as the platforms wont take anything else.

A 153 will do for most of the trains but the peak trains can be canny full so really need a 150.

 

[tbtc]

Well we will have to keep 150/153 on the Bedford -BLethcley as the platforms wont take anything else.

A 153 will do for most of the trains but the peak trains can be canny full so really need a 150.

Ah, you know you'd secretly love a couple of Pacers on the line

 

[Class172]

Having thought that London Midland had got rid of their 170/5+153 diagrams, I was surprised when the 16:23 from Worcester fgt st-B'ham new st arrived at the station, it had a 153 on the front of it! This may be because I nagged LM to extend this service a month ago, it was seriously overcrowded until today

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Ah, you know you'd secretly love a couple of Pacers on the line

LOL you keep offering these things, you know there will be no takers. Even the scrap merchants wont have them, not enough scrap metal!!!!!!

Nice try though mate.

 

[DarloRich]

Ah, you know you'd secretly love a couple of Pacers on the line

Yes becuase the good people of Buckinghamshire would just love that! (personaly, i would love one to pitch up for a few weeks EVEN if only to listen to the complaints )

((The worst thing is they are perfect for that kind of line and could displace some very useful stock for urban (Northern!) areas))

It is nice to travel by something OTHER than a pacer for once!

 

[Scud]

Out of 17 x 170/5 diagrams, only two are coupled to 153s & work the Rugeley's all day. 6 x 170/5 diagrams sit on Tyseley between around 9:00-16/17:00hrs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Class 153 diagrams (weekdays
TS101 - Coventry to Nuneaton shuttle all day.
TS102 - Rugeley line all day, attached to a 170/5.
TS103 - Bedford to Bletchley line all day (unit stays at Bletchley for the week.)
TS104 - Stourbridge / Dorridge line all day, attached to a 150/3.
TS105 - A couple of trips to Rugeley attached to a 170/5 but finished for the day & on Tyseley by 10:23 (the 170/5 comes back out to play for the PM peak.)
TS106 - Stabled maintenance diagram at Tyseley.
TS107 - Stabled maintenance diagram at Tyseley.
TS108 - Stabled maintenance diagram at Tyseley.

(LM currently only have 7 x 153/0s, as 153366 is on hire to NXEA.)

 

[DarloRich]

As an aside - Do the units on the Bedford-Blethcley swap over on a Friday or a Saturday? ( there is no Sunday service)

Also how do they get form Bletchley to Birmingham? Staight up the WCML?

 

[tbtc]

Class 153 diagrams (weekdays
TS101 - Coventry to Nuneaton shuttle all day.
TS102 - Rugeley line all day, attached to a 170/5.
TS103 - Bedford to Bletchley line all day (unit stays at Bletchley for the week.)
TS104 - Stourbridge / Dorridge line all day, attached to a 150/3.
TS105 - A couple of trips to Rugeley attached to a 170/5 but finished for the day & on Tyseley by 10:23 (the 170/5 comes back out to play for the PM peak.)
TS106 - Stabled maintenance diagram at Tyseley.
TS107 - Stabled maintenance diagram at Tyseley.
TS108 - Stabled maintenance diagram at Tyseley

Thats very interesting, cheers.

With the 172s being three coach, presumably that'll mean TS104 isn't going to be needed longer term?

 

[sprinterguy]

Thats very interesting, cheers.

With the 172s being three coach, presumably that'll mean TS104 isn't going to be needed longer term?

Why not, the 150 it's attached to is also three carriage, hence the "150/3" description.

 

[Scud]

As an aside - Do the units on the Bedford-Blethcley swap over on a Friday or a Saturday? ( there is no Sunday service)

Also how do they get form Bletchley to Birmingham? Staight up the WCML?

The 153/0 & 150/1 go from Bletchley at 22:55 on a Friday, straight up via Northampton / Rugby / Coventry & New St. The replacement 153/0 & 150/1 leaves Tyseley approx 00:10 on the Saturday AM & goes back to Bletchley along the same route. Drivers change over at New St.

Why not, the 150 it's attached to is also three carriage, hence the "150/3" description.

Yep, the 153/0 working TS104 is already coupled to a 3 car (150/3) as sprinterguy says. Also, 172s will be delivered in 2 & 3 car variants. Coupling tests between 153s & 170s to 172s have already taken place to ensure compatibility. I'm not sure if it's been done with 150s yet.

 

[tbtc]

Why not, the 150 it's attached to is also three carriage, hence the "150/3" description.

Any reason this diagram gets a longer DMU than the other Snow Hill ones? Does it pass through Birmingham at rush hour?