Hulley's of Baslow (Defunct)

[Bletchleyite]

A full size bus wouldn't fit through this restriction point. Not sure how an artic would either!

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I guess if it's going that way it'll be a narrowbody Optare Solo or similar.

The actual restriction is max 7.5 tonnes for lorries and no buses except local buses (presumably that means registered local bus services). Though I'm a bit surprised Speedwell Cavern haven't got provision for coach parties to their car park (but not beyond), as up to there it's just a country lane, no worse than taking a coach up Langdale or something. Even the pass itself isn't that narrow, it's partly wider and less bendy than e.g. the Pass of Llanberis on which buses and coaches are allowed.

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[Killingworth]

A full size bus wouldn't fit through this restriction point. Not sure how an artic would either!

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I should have remembered that - I helped build the wall to the left of the cattle grid

In that case the HGV I pictured going through Castleton a couple of years ago must have managed to turn round to go back the way he'd come, with great difficulty. He wasn't helped by roadworks on that corner and temporary traffic lights!

 

[Russel]

The 257 appears to be using Winnats Pass which gets very busy in summer and at weekends. It's narrow and steep so banned to large vehicles so a full sized bus would be inappropriate. Despite the ban It's not unknown for articulated HGVs to get through the Hope Valley to Castleton without appreciating the significance of the signage. With no easy place to turn they carry on up the pass.

This route will make an interesting ride.

Definitely one one to add to the list of routes to tick off for the summer!

 

[James101]

Hulleys have launched an open top ‘Breezer’ service from Baslow to Castleton:
Link to timetable/leaflet:

https://irp.cdn-website.com/8ad37f44/files/uploaded/Breezer.pdf

I had a ride this morning and there was good uptake for its second day, maybe 40 passengers on and off at various points. What’s a worry is the timetable is fantasy, scheduled for one vehicle taking 24 minutes each way. Google maps has a car journey of the same route down for 35 minutes at off peak! Factoring in passenger stops and slowing down for frequent cyclists, the journey I sampled didn’t get to Castleton until after it should have already finished the next return journey to Baslow.

Clearly there is demand for the service but unless they half the timetable or double the resource it will soon cause more damage to their reputation then the joy of the open-top journey.

 

[Russel]

Hulleys have launched an open top ‘Breezer’ service from Baslow to Castleton:
Link to timetable/leaflet:

https://irp.cdn-website.com/8ad37f44/files/uploaded/Breezer.pdf

I had a ride this morning and there was good uptake for its second day, maybe 40 passengers on and off at various points. What’s a worry is the timetable is fantasy, scheduled for one vehicle taking 24 minutes each way. Google maps has a car journey of the same route down for 35 minutes at off peak! Factoring in passenger stops and slowing down for frequent cyclists, the journey I sampled didn’t get to Castleton until after it should have already finished the next return journey to Baslow.

Clearly there is demand for the service but unless they half the timetable or double the resource it will soon cause more damage to their reputation then the joy of the open-top journey.

I looked at heading out for a ride on it on Saturday but I was limited by time and thought the timetable could best be described as optimistic, so gave it a miss.

 

[D365]

If the timetable issues get resolved, and I can work out how to connect with the 272 and 218 at each end, that will be an interesting service to try.

 

[Welshman]

You have to give Hulleys top marks for trying something new, but when I saw the timetable in FBB's blog this morning, I was concerned it was too tight.
I wonder if now that summer is approaching and covid is over there might be some merit in trying a simplified Snake service again - perhaps 2 or 3 journeys each way.

 

[D365]

I wonder if now that summer is approaching and covid is over there might be some merit in trying a simplified Snake service again - perhaps 2 or 3 journeys each way.

As it happens, the '257' is now extended on Sundays via Snake Pass to Glossop, and onwards to Chapel-en-le-Frith and Castleton (via Winnats Pass).

 

[derbybusdepot]

It should have been clear that the timetable would never be achievable. That aside, it is a very good idea, especially if the good weather continues.

 

[James101]

Is there not a duty of the Traffic Commissioner to reject a patently unachievable timetable? I also seem to remember some ‘optimistic’ timings on the many X57 variants and the extremely brief X1.

I also travelled in their Sunday 257 which carried healthy loads each way to Glossop and over the Snake Pass, the 61 back to Buxton later was also briskly busy.

They seem to get a lot right, and should be applauded for innovation at a time a lot of operators seem intent on pitching bus travel as the option of last resort.

This Breezer timings issue seems a big miss. A lot of elastic bus customers maybe tempted by the experience but poor reliability off an unrealistic timetable will reinforce poor stereotypes of bus travel and cause more harm.

 

[Russel]

Looking at the timetable, I can see what they were planning, a clock face hourly timetable, which I can't fault them for, however, when the most direct route between Baslow and Castleton is coming out at 23 minutes by car, which is also how long the timetable shows the full route as being, it's clear the timetable isn't fit for poupous.

 

[Killingworth]

Hulleys are based in Baslow so shoukd know as well as anyone how long a bus will take to Castleton. At busy weekends 30 minutee is probably not achievable in a car, certainly very unilkely in a bus stopping to embark passengers and taking fares. Presumably only one bus is allocated but with 2 it would indeed be a breeze.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jun 2023 ==

Updated 2.6.2023

I tried the service today. The timetable will be changed.

I took 45 minutes from end to end by car using narrow roads as short cuts to avoid some of the traffic jams. Adding to normal congestion in Castleton, Hathersage and Baslow today were temporary traffic lights between Bamford and Hope, at Calver crossroads and in Baslow. Consequently the bus could only operate to a 2 hourly timetable.

A 90 minute round trip would probably just about work on most days.

20 year old former Transdev London United bus that was out of service when it went under a low railway bridge in December 2013.

 

[Russel]

Hulleys are based in Baslow so shoukd know as well as anyone how long a bus will take to Castleton. At busy weekends 30 minutee is probably not achievable in a car, certainly very unilkely in a bus stopping to embark passengers and taking fares. Presumably only one bus is allocated but with 2 it would indeed be a breeze.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jun 2023 ==

Updated 2.6.2023

I tried the service today. The timetable will be changed.

I took 45 minutes from end to end by car using narrow roads as short cuts to avoid some of the traffic jams. Adding to normal congestion in Castleton, Hathersage and Baslow today were temporary traffic lights between Bamford and Hope, at Calver crossroads and in Baslow. Consequently the bus could only operate to a 2 hourly timetable.

A 90 minute round trip would probably just about work on most days.

20 year old former Transdev London United bus that was out of service when it went under a low railway bridge in December 2013.

View attachment 136529

For a local company that knows the area so well, they should find the current timetable quite embarrassing.

 

[derbybusdepot]

It is embarrassing. The times were never possible, even with an empty bus and no traffic.

With a 90 minute service, connections to 170 at Baslow less seemless than they should have been. The service seems to have been built around using Baslow as an interchange.

The route is very scenic, whether it is very viable is another matter. I would think many potential pax would park in Bakewell and Chatsworth, and may want to take a short novelty bus ride somewhere, safe in the knowledge they can get back easily. Perhaps that is where stagecoach will come in.

Were there not plans for a park and ride system in the peak district at some point?

 

[D365]

20 year old former Transdev London United bus that was out of service when it went under a low railway bridge in December 2013.

View attachment 136529

Have I read that right? Reusing bus that’s had the roof peeled off?!

Surely can’t be too hard to find another!

 

[Contains Nuts]

Have I read that right? Reusing bus that’s had the roof peeled off?!

Surely can’t be too hard to find another!

Find another with a roof and cut it off? I think a bus with the roof already removed (by whatever means) is much easier.

 

[derbybusdepot]

Find another with a roof and cut it off? I think a bus with the roof already removed (by whatever means) is much easier.

Ideally one that can put top back on, so can be used all year round.

Morebus have the roofs for some/all of their open toppers at Swanage garage, sure other examples too.

 

[TheSel]

Convertible open toppers now very much the exception. Back in 'the old days', they were common. ECW built large numbers of 'convertibles' on Bristol chassis for 'coastal' Tilling (and later National Bus Company) constituent companies such as Southdown, Crosville, Western National and more, but nowadays it's much more cost effective to take an accident or fire victim, and lop [what's left!] of the roof off.

 

[derbybusdepot]

Convertible open toppers now very much the exception. Back in 'the old days', they were common. ECW built large numbers of 'convertibles' on Bristol chassis for 'coastal' Tilling (and later National Bus Company) constituent companies such as Southdown, Crosville, Western National and more, but nowadays it's much more cost effective to take an accident or fire victim, and lop [what's left!] of the roof off.

Guess it depends how easy it is to take roof on and off, and if cost of that is covered by getting a full years use out of a bus. It does mean can convert a school bus into open top for a seasonal service in school summer holidays.

 

[CBlue]

Convertible open toppers now very much the exception. Back in 'the old days', they were common. ECW built large numbers of 'convertibles' on Bristol chassis for 'coastal' Tilling (and later National Bus Company) constituent companies such as Southdown, Crosville, Western National and more, but nowadays it's much more cost effective to take an accident or fire victim, and lop [what's left!] of the roof off.

Guess it depends how easy it is to take roof on and off, and if cost of that is covered by getting a full years use out of a bus. It does mean can convert a school bus into open top for a seasonal service in school summer holidays.

To be fair, some operators (Go South Coast for example) still happily operate convertible open toppers. One of the Go-Ahead London subsidaries used to also operate a few convertibles, quite how "rapid" the conversion was probably doesn't come into it. You could always remove a roof from a scrapper, and indeed that's been done before by a few operators.

The biggest issue with the convertibles in the wetter months is that they tend to leak pretty badly - almost as badly as if there wasn't a roof!

 

[Killingworth]

This one seems to have been 'converted' by its then owners soon after its decapitation and has not done a high mileage since. Hulleys had it still operating in the original red last year..

 

[83G/84D]

Closed top Enviro 400 LK09 EKU deputising for the open top bus on the Breezer service this morning.

 

[northwichcat]

Hulleys have launched an open top ‘Breezer’ service from Baslow to Castleton:
Link to timetable/leaflet:

https://irp.cdn-website.com/8ad37f44/files/uploaded/Breezer.pdf

I had a ride this morning and there was good uptake for its second day, maybe 40 passengers on and off at various points. What’s a worry is the timetable is fantasy, scheduled for one vehicle taking 24 minutes each way. Google maps has a car journey of the same route down for 35 minutes at off peak! Factoring in passenger stops and slowing down for frequent cyclists, the journey I sampled didn’t get to Castleton until after it should have already finished the next return journey to Baslow.

Clearly there is demand for the service but unless they half the timetable or double the resource it will soon cause more damage to their reputation then the joy of the open-top journey.

The route map shows 4 stations but none of them are shown on the timetable. That doesn't make it friendly for non-locals, who might think if I arrive at Hope station what time will the bus to Castleton be?

 

[Marcus Fryer]

The route map shows 4 stations but none of them are shown on the timetable. That doesn't make it friendly for non-locals, who might think if I arrive at Hope station what time will the bus to Castleton be?

Also notice that the timetable shows two 13:45 from Castleton but no 15:45. Presumably that’s a printing error?

Also, comparing the leaflet with what is shown on bustimes.org (which takes its feed from the Bus Open Data Service) on the latter the times and route are different from what is shown in the leaflet; according to BODS the timing points do not include the Longshaw Estate.

BRZ - Baslow - Castleton

Hulleys of Baslow

bustimes.org

 

[Djb1]

The route map shows 4 stations but none of them are shown on the timetable. That doesn't make it friendly for non-locals, who might think if I arrive at Hope station what time will the bus to Castleton be?

I think ordinarily that wouldn’t be an issue given the gap between the 2 timing points is only 8 minutes, and most people would always pad a small gap when changing modes.

The problem is obviously that the train arrives around that time, and the bus timetable isn’t reliable. (The tight connectivity between eastbound trains, and westbound buses into Castleton has incidentally been an issue for a long time - although the First South Yorkshire 272s have a slightly better gap nowadays)

 

[northwichcat]

I think ordinarily that wouldn’t be an issue given the gap between the 2 timing points is only 8 minutes, and most people would always pad a small gap when changing modes.

The problem is obviously that the train arrives around that time, and the bus timetable isn’t reliable. (The tight connectivity between eastbound trains, and westbound buses into castleton has incidentally been an issue for a long time - although the FSY 272s have a slightly better gap nowadays)

It sounds like you're familiar with the area. I was thinking of the people who aren't. How can someone work out how long the bus will take from the station or what time it will get there, if the stop isn't listed on the timetable? I get that Google's available but Hulley's have produced a leaflet which advertises the stations are on the route but doesn't say what time the bus stops at or near them.

 

[Djb1]

It sounds like you're familiar with the area. I was thinking of the people who aren't. How can someone work out how long the bus will take from the station or what time it will get there, if the stop isn't listed on the timetable? I get that Google's available but Hulley's have produced a leaflet which advertises the stations are on the route but doesn't say what time the bus stops at or near them.

Terrible timetable aside I think you’re making it sound a lot harder than it is…..

Hope station is shown between Hathersage and Castleton on the map.

if you choose weekdays the bus leaves Hathersage at 1035 and arrives Castleton 1043. Which means if you arrive at the stop outside hope station at 1036 you’ll have to wait up to 6 minutes if you’ve guessed too early. (And the journey will last no longer than 7 minutes including the wait)

 

[Redmike]

8 minutes from Hathersage to Castleton is very tight. Hulley's 272 takes 16 minutes to do the same journey.

 

[Killingworth]

Terrible timetable aside I think you’re making it sound a lot harder than it is…..

Hope station is shown between Hathersage and Castleton on the map.

if you choose weekdays the bus leaves Hathersage at 1035 and arrives Castleton 1043. Which means if you arrive at the stop outside hope station at 1036 you’ll have to wait up to 6 minutes if you’ve guessed too early. (And the journey will last no longer than 7 minutes including the wait)

You are very optimistic. Hope Valley line trains are renowned for their poor time keeping. The most recent data from On Time Trains website shows Hope at 2060th in the country for punctuality- and that's over 300 positions higher than it was earlier this year. . Other stations on the line are even worse. See; https://www.ontimetrains.co.uk/stations/HOP

The bus stops are by the end of Hope station's long approach road where there are two fairly new bus shelters with supposedly live information. There are currently no bus timetables on the station or train timetables at the bus stops. Local point to be addressed.

Buses do not run closely to time either. The most determined travellers do make connections but need to be prepared for very long waits, maybe an hour or more. Backpackers don't seem to mind.

The Breezert does run through Grindleford and by Longshaw Lodge. A long short cut to avoid traffic at Calver crossroads was being considered on Friday to run via Owler Bar!

Whatever, this timetable could only work by using two buses which might allow it to go further up towards Mam Tor and the blue john caverns. There is no way it can keep anywhere near a 30 minute trip, let alone there and back within an hour. I'm wondering if they may have added a second bus today? Tearing up a widely publicised new service timetable so soon wouldn't be a good look, but better a later bus and an alternating single decker than potentially wait for an hour or more?



From what I observed on Friday all other buses at both ends of the Breezer route were also late or had evaporated..After speaking to some fed up intending passengers for Chesterfield I wasn't encouraged to rely on rural buses.

 

[Djb1]

I wasn’t being optimistic, merely trying to address the original question (which made no reference to reliability of either bus or train, purely timetable logistics), of how to work out what time the bus should arrive at hope station…..