TfW 175 shortages

[markymark2000]

If this was Northern or TPE or Avanti, they would be having their contract taken off them and people held accountable. Sadly, as per with the Welsh government, no one is held accountable and the same shoddy service is allowed to continue because the Welsh Govt can do no wrong.

There is no reason why more effort couldn't be being made to get the 175s in service. Yes Chester may be busy but perhaps if there wasn't such incompetence in the first place, this situation would never have happened. Or perhaps if they sent the trains elsewhere to get sorted, the trains may be back in use quicker.



The issues on the Marches are ridiculous though. Right now in Cardiff you have the Merthyr, Treherbert, Aberdare and Ebbw Vale lines all off for upgrade works plus No City line between Cardiff and Radyr. That is a silly amount of units freed up and yet, somehow people are still being given 2 cars 150s on the Marches. What a shambles. Not even a capacity boost between Cardiff and Shrewsbury, nothing. All these units not being used on the valleys, where are they? In hiding? They sure as hell aren't in service carrying fare paying passengers.

 

[Techniquest]

107 isn't it? Failed last Sunday lost 2 engines enroute South. Waiting towing to Chester for repairs.

I didn't check the numbers today, not the end ones anyway, but I'm sure the coach number nearest the buffers this morning ended in 52. 107 had gone a couple of days ago, so I don't know what's happened here.

 

[RailWonderer]

If this was Northern or TPE or Avanti, they would be having their contract taken off them and people held accountable. Sadly, as per with the Welsh government, no one is held accountable and the same shoddy service is allowed to continue because the Welsh Govt can do no wrong.

There is no reason why more effort couldn't be being made to get the 175s in service. Yes Chester may be busy but perhaps if there wasn't such incompetence in the first place, this situation would never have happened. Or perhaps if they sent the trains elsewhere to get sorted, the trains may be back in use quicker.



The issues on the Marches are ridiculous though. Right now in Cardiff you have the Merthyr, Treherbert, Aberdare and Ebbw Vale lines all off for upgrade works plus No City line between Cardiff and Radyr. That is a silly amount of units freed up and yet, somehow people are still being given 2 cars 150s on the Marches. What a shambles. Not even a capacity boost between Cardiff and Shrewsbury, nothing. All these units not being used on the valleys, where are they? In hiding? They sure as hell aren't in service carrying fare paying passengers.

TfW have the excuse of having a lot of new rolling stock coming in with the assumption that reliability will dramatically increse when the new stock is bedded in and in service, just like GWR and GA did when IETs and Stadlers were not yet ready and the old stock was breaking down and failing more often and cancellations and short forms peaked.
With TPE it's the management that was inept and Avanti was extended because they had a good enough team and were able to get themselves out of their rut.
Totally different story with TfW.

 

[Topological]

All of this is because Chester is being used as the depot for the new trains and the old trains. TfW made the decision and then made the decision not to maintain the 175s properly so that there was more stabling space for 197s.

Investing in a new depot for the 197s had the potential to bring wider economic benefit and would be consistent with Labour's espousing of investment for recovery, but the Welsh Government have chosen not to. There is no shortage of redundant former industrial land near railways in Wales. Presumably people will say that there is no money tree, but then the same people are going to vote in the general election based on the possibility that there is money for an investment based recovery.

I do not know if there are ways of making it work within the tight surrounds of Chester, shunting around all the time is impractical and delaying the 197s to keep the 175s running is not a great plan.

Getting double 150s on the Marches trains that have to be 150s would help. Ensuring that Wrexham to Bidston has trains would also be a big step forward. Even 150+153 would be a good start.

I am glad Swanline is back, but that does appear to be more diagrams at a time when trains are short. I would be annoyed if I was suffering the 230 issues and seeing more diagrams added in the South.

The present situation will pass, but it does not wash that all of this could not have been avoided.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 May 2023 ==

One thing about the 150s is the USB and plug socket. Cannot say that about 153s and the 175 ones hardly ever work!

I had a 150 the other day which had no plugs, though that might have been a one off.

USB is not much good for laptops and Manchester to West Wales is a long way.

Agree the 175s are hit and miss though, have had many journeys over the years where the plugs were not working.

 

[Anonymous10]

All of this is because Chester is being used as the depot for the new trains and the old trains. TfW made the decision and then made the decision not to maintain the 175s properly so that there was more stabling space for 197s.

Investing in a new depot for the 197s had the potential to bring wider economic benefit and would be consistent with Labour's espousing of investment for recovery, but the Welsh Government have chosen not to. There is no shortage of redundant former industrial land near railways in Wales. Presumably people will say that there is no money tree, but then the same people are going to vote in the general election based on the possibility that there is money for an investment based recovery.

I do not know if there are ways of making it work within the tight surrounds of Chester, shunting around all the time is impractical and delaying the 197s to keep the 175s running is not a great plan.

Getting double 150s on the Marches trains that have to be 150s would help. Ensuring that Wrexham to Bidston has trains would also be a big step forward. Even 150+153 would be a good start.

I am glad Swanline is back, but that does appear to be more diagrams at a time when trains are short. I would be annoyed if I was suffering the 230 issues and seeing more diagrams added in the South.

The present situation will pass, but it does not wash that all of this could not have been avoided.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 May 2023 ==


I had a 150 the other day which had no plugs, though that might have been a one off.

USB is not much good for laptops and Manchester to West Wales is a long way.

Agree the 175s are hit and miss though, have had many journeys over the years where the plugs were not working.

The only 150s in use by tfw which dont have power points is the northern units.

 

[Topological]

The only 150s in use by tfw which dont have power points is the northern units.

All I know is that the train was 150 in TfW colours and there were no sockets near the table I was at. It was the first time I can remember that happening though.

Other people came to the table and none of us could locate the sockets.

Often they become hidden under the middle of the table, or even offset to the other side of the table, but this one definitely did not have anything.

 

[Anonymous10]

All I know is that the train was 150 in TfW colours and there were no sockets near the table I was at. It was the first time I can remember that happening though.

Other people came to the table and none of us could locate the sockets.

Often they become hidden under the middle of the table, or even offset to the other side of the table, but this one definitely did not have anything.

I know the bays by the door, don't have usb or plug sockets otherwise the 150s all have plugs to My knowledge

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I didn't check the numbers today, not the end ones anyway, but I'm sure the coach number nearest the buffers this morning ended in 52. 107 had gone a couple of days ago, so I don't know what's happened here.

Interesting, was convinced it was 107 when I saw it yesterday!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 May 2023 ==

Scrap the above... just been confirmed by a reliable source that my eyes deceived me and 102 failed on Thursday afternoon!

 

[978wta]

Been informed 111 is now having engines and other parts refitted!

 

[AdamWW]

Investing in a new depot for the 197s had the potential to bring wider economic benefit and would be consistent with Labour's espousing of investment for recovery, but the Welsh Government have chosen not to. There is no shortage of redundant former industrial land near railways in Wales. Presumably people will say that there is no money tree, but then the same people are going to vote in the general election based on the possibility that there is money for an investment based recovery.

This is the same TfW that is building a new depot for the 398's in the Valleys though.

 

[Jez]

I think it was a mistake having the same depot for the 197s whilst continuing to service the 175s. The 175s should have been moved elsewhere. Do other train operating companies have the same issues when introducing new stock whilst also keeping the old trains running during the transition period?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing though but surely they must have known the issues that might happen with the 175s once the 197s started to be introduced.

Unfortunately it is the Marches that is suffering the most. North Wales not so much as they have the 197s actually in service for the majority of services It doesnt help that 197 acceptance seemed to have stopped.

On the issue of the 150s, yes they could provide more capacity with so many lines in the South which are booked 150s being out of use at the moment. They did provide a 4 car on one diagram today but this is few and far between. Travelling on a 150 long distance I could accept if there was a sufficient amount of carriages to meet the need of the amount of passengers.

 

[L401CJF]

175104 is knocking about on Chester to Crewe shuttles today. I assume the 197 this morning got swapped out for capacity reasons with the races being on.

175113/109 working in 6 car formation on Holyhead - Birmingham International this afternoon. Unfortunately got swapped for 158s at Chester and went back to Holyhead (due to the Machynlleth guard relieving at Shrewsbury not signing them).

 

[craigybagel]

175104 is knocking about on Chester to Crewe shuttles today. I assume the 197 this morning got swapped out for capacity reasons with the races being on.

175113/109 working in 6 car formation on Holyhead - Birmingham International this afternoon. Unfortunately got swapped for 158s at Chester and went back to Holyhead (due to the Machynlleth guard relieving at Shrewsbury not signing them).

It would likely have ended up as a 3 car with a set locked out South of Chester, trying to work a 6 car between Chester and Shrewsbury is a nightmare. On a sunny Saturday like today it'll be the coast that needs the most strengthening anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 May 2023 ==

On the issue of the 150s, yes they could provide more capacity with so many lines in the South which are booked 150s being out of use at the moment. They did provide a 4 car on one diagram today but this is few and far between. Travelling on a 150 long distance I could accept if there was a sufficient amount of carriages to meet the need of the amount of passengers.

At least two diagrams on the Marches had to be shortened at the last minute this morning due to the failure of one of the MKIV rakes during prep. That diagram ended up being a 150 instead of the MKIVs, and another diagram that should have been 4 car ended up as a 2 to release that 150.

 

[tomuk]

This is the same TfW that is building a new depot for the 398's in the Valleys though.

And have bought Pullman at Canton, bought the Barry yard. Oh and rented a couple of sidings at Gresty Road. So lots of extra facilities to deal with both the transition and larger numbers of 197s then.

 

[L401CJF]

It would likely have ended up as a 3 car with a set locked out South of Chester, trying to work a 6 car between Chester and Shrewsbury is a nightmare. On a sunny Saturday like today it'll be the coast that needs the most strengthening anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 May 2023 ==


At least two diagrams on the Marches had to be shortened at the last minute this morning due to the failure of one of the MKIV rakes during prep. That diagram ended up being a 150 instead of the MKIVs, and another diagram that should have been 4 car ended up as a 2 to release that 150.

You're not wrong, personally I would lock it out between Chester and Shrewsbury then use the full train from there onward. As it happens it went up to Holyhead with the rear set locked out anyway.

Birmingham Pride is on this weekend so quite busy that way too!

 

[Topological]

And have bought Pullman at Canton, bought the Barry yard. Oh and rented a couple of sidings at Gresty Road. So lots of extra facilities to deal with both the transition and larger numbers of 197s then.

So the whole thing about Chester capacity is a smokescreen?

As far as I can tell from the outside the reason 175s are not as reliable as they need to be is entirely because of the lack of availability of space in Chester. If you are suggesting that sufficient allowance was made then what is the true reason that so many journeys on the Marches have reduced capacity and Wrexham to Bidston cannot be fully provided for?

 

[craigybagel]

So the whole thing about Chester capacity is a smokescreen?

As far as I can tell from the outside the reason 175s are not as reliable as they need to be is entirely because of the lack of availability of space in Chester. If you are suggesting that sufficient allowance was made then what is the true reason that so many journeys on the Marches have reduced capacity and Wrexham to Bidston cannot be fully provided for?

Extra capacity in Cardiff doesn't really help much 3 hours away in Chester - especially when that capacity in Cardiff is needed for the extra units on the valleys whilst they go through their own transition. Canton didn't have much spare capacity either - and the yard in Treherbert isn't accessible at the moment, that's another loss.

You're not wrong, personally I would lock it out between Chester and Shrewsbury then use the full train from there onward.

Indeed, when I was a guard I'd have done exactly the same! The full fleet of ASDO fitted 197s can't come soon enough.

 

[tomuk]

So the whole thing about Chester capacity is a smokescreen?

As far as I can tell from the outside the reason 175s are not as reliable as they need to be is entirely because of the lack of availability of space in Chester. If you are suggesting that sufficient allowance was made then what is the true reason that so many journeys on the Marches have reduced capacity and Wrexham to Bidston cannot be fully provided for?

No I'm not suggesting sufficient space was made available. The majority of extra facilities are in Cardiff nowhere near Chester.

 

[Topological]

So essentially TfW are making provision for the transfers in the valleys, but failed to make provision for the 175 to 197 transition.

Leaving aside the capacity reduction of the single 150, the rest of the week seems to have been better than Monday's shambles. 175/1s do seem to be used on some trains and most of the Mk4 are running.

The 197 acceptance seemingly being on pause means that the question of allowing the 175s to go off lease can only rumble on.

 

[markymark2000]

I think it was a mistake having the same depot for the 197s whilst continuing to service the 175s. The 175s should have been moved elsewhere. Do other train operating companies have the same issues when introducing new stock whilst also keeping the old trains running during the transition period?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing though but surely they must have known the issues that might happen with the 175s once the 197s started to be introduced.

Unfortunately it is the Marches that is suffering the most. North Wales not so much as they have the 197s actually in service for the majority of services It doesnt help that 197 acceptance seemed to have stopped.

I don't think people would mind that much if we got told that North Wales-Cardiff services would be split at Chester so that the 197s could be pushed even more on the Coast and 158/175/MK4s could be put more onto the 'main marches'

On the issue of the 150s, yes they could provide more capacity with so many lines in the South which are booked 150s being out of use at the moment. They did provide a 4 car on one diagram today but this is few and far between. Travelling on a 150 long distance I could accept if there was a sufficient amount of carriages to meet the need of the amount of passengers.

There's about 11 diagrams (not sure how many of the journeys are meant to be 4 car though) released right now from Cardiff - Ponty, Merthyr and Aberdare blockade. Plus 3 diagrams being released from the Ebbw Vale Line which has a blockade on. That's at least 14 diagrams there free. Where are these trains?

If TFW looked after the MK4s better, they would be more reliable and in service. If TFW didn't draw up a new maintenance contract which led to the deterioration of units to such an extent that 3 caught fire. If TFW didn't let other trains go off lease before bringing in enough of the newer trains. This all leads back to TFW but no one will hold them accountable because it's easier to sit and blame everyone but TFW.

No I'm not suggesting sufficient space was made available. The majority of extra facilities are in Cardiff nowhere near Chester.

But they managed to find all the space for the 175s to be dumped pending their fixes? Holyhead for example.

Leaving aside the capacity reduction of the single 150, the rest of the week seems to have been better than Monday's shambles. 175/1s do seem to be used on some trains and most of the Mk4 are running.

Not quite. MK4 usage is still down quite a bit as they are now 3 diagrams on the Manchesters as they scrapped them on the Holyheads now. What was a MK4 is now downgraded to a 150 or 153 each day. Had TFW pulled their finger out and got the MK4s to a proper state in the first place, perhaps they would be more reliable but instead they sat around and are now in service in a right shoddy state with them not even bothering to remove LNER coach stickers from the outside. If you had 7 MK4s out in service, it would be reasonable to suggest that 'most MK4s are running' but far from it sadly.

 

[tomuk]

But they managed to find all the space for the 175s to be dumped pending their fixes? Holyhead for example.

That's still 90 miles from Chester and there is a difference between storing them in the sidings and having them accessible for servicing.

 

[Techniquest]

Interesting, was convinced it was 107 when I saw it yesterday!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 May 2023 ==

Scrap the above... just been confirmed by a reliable source that my eyes deceived me and 102 failed on Thursday afternoon!

It was 107 a few days ago, I posted a photo in this thread Yikes to another failure! Thanks for confirming the situation, I was starting to doubt my eyes!

 

[Anonymous10]

Been informed 111 is now having engines and other parts refitted!

That'd likely be to send it off lease

 

[SuperLuke2334]

It was 107 a few days ago, I posted a photo in this thread Yikes to another failure! Thanks for confirming the situation, I was starting to doubt my eyes!

I definitely saw 107, but I must have misread 102! Hopefully our fitter can get it running enough to get it moved to Chester.

 

[Anonymous10]

I definitely saw 107, but I must have misread 102! Hopefully our fitter can get it running enough to get it moved to Chester.

Does Hereford have a fitter permanently based there? How common is this? Is this a sign of the fleets issues

 

[Philip]

Any reason why some 175s which returned to service last month have been out of service again for the last few weeks? '108, 110, 115 and 116 were out and about a lot in April but not seen much of them on realtimetrains the last few weeks.

 

[craigybagel]

Does Hereford have a fitter permanently based there? How common is this? Is this a sign of the fleets issues

Not for a few years now. But it's not very far to send a fitter from Shrewsbury or Cardiff.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Does Hereford have a fitter permanently based there? How common is this? Is this a sign of the fleets issues

He's a mobile fitter, but he is based at Hereford unless called out. He's been here since last year.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The only 150s in use by tfw which dont have power points is the northern units.

This is incorrect. They have USB sockets.

 

[Markdvdman]

Yup the Northern ones have USB sockets but do not have the plug sockets liker the TFW ones