LNER cab and sim

[Andy was Taken]

I recently sent an email to LNER:

Dear LNER,

I was wondering, if there was somehow a way for me to be allowed in the cab of a train (presumably by getting a cab pass) or by experiencing the train cab simulator (or the ETCS simulator) you have at LNER.

and they replied with the following:

Dear Andy,
Thank you for contacting LNER.
If you head to one of the stations, you can speak to our platform staff who will assist you with your request.

(Bits are cut from both)

So, if anyone knew:
-Where are the simulators (I know king's cross and Newcastle);
- What is the chance that the platform staff would actually do this;
- Would it be same day or would i have to "arrange" it;
- Would i need a cab pass to go in the cab if the train is in the station
- And finally, how would i arrange to get a cab pass if i wanted to ride in the cab while the train was moving?
( NB i don't know anyone who works in the rail industry in this country)

Replies are appreciated.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

That’s not a good reply from LNER. No way would platform staff be able to organise either of these things.

The chances of being able to do either, particularly the cab ride, are slightly less than 0.1%.

 

[Towers]

Hi Andy

Train operators can and do arrange cab rides, however it can be quite an exercise and it would require a second member of staff - almost certainly a driver manager - to accompany you for the journey, as there are “cab etiquette” requirements which mean that you cannot distract the person actually driving the train. It may or may not be possible for LNER to arrange this, depending on how agreeable they’re inclined to be. What I would say though is that crew management across the industry are very busy currently owing to the continuing strike action, which does mean regretfully that time for activities like this is in very short supply at the moment.

Regarding accessing a cab in a station, that would also need to be arranged formally. Security requirements are such that members of the public should not be permitted into restricted areas like cabs without prior approval.

Sorry if that isn’t as positive and cheery as you might have hoped!

 

[zwk500]

So, if anyone knew:
-Where are the simulators (I know king's cross and Newcastle);

Doncaster may have one, although it will likely be at the IEP depot not the station. York may have one, but Doncaster is more likely.

- What is the chance that the platform staff would actually do this;

They almost certainly don't have the authority to do it themselves and would need approval from a manager of some level.

- Would it be same day or would i have to "arrange" it;

Almost certainly would need to be pre-arranged, as you will not be able to use a simulator if LNER want to train somebody and the cab will need authorisation.

- Would i need a cab pass to go in the cab if the train is in the station

Not sure, but don't even ask a driver without having pre-agreed authority, they can get in real trouble for letting you in.

- And finally, how would i arrange to get a cab pass if i wanted to ride in the cab while the train was moving?
( NB i don't know anyone who works in the rail industry in this country)

Your best bet is to try and contact a specific person in LNER, preferably a member of staff who tweets about their day regularly. They may be more inclined to help you, and importantly have a better chance of telling you the right email address to write to. There is nothing wrong with a polite request, but do respect the fact that if people say 'no' they do so for a reason.

 

[TreacleMiller]

HI Andy,

I'm sorry to say that the odds of you doing either of these are virtually zero, unless there are some sort of exceptional circumstances.

Cab passes at lner are extremely difficult to get - Drivers can't typically get them so yourself "off the street" has little chance.

For those interested the sims are located at KX, Leeds, York, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

They are used extensively for driver training and assessments and booking time on the is difficult even for us drivers, we can't just request them.

Your best bet will be if there is an open event in the future.

If you really want in a stationary cab ask at a terminal station and be prepared to be told no.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Definitely not likely I'm afraid! As Guards we can go in the cabs of Trains we work, but the Front/Driving cab is out of bounds except for a few situations where the Driver has genuine need for a 2nd person to assist them which we are competent to do. There are also many buttons and switches that should not be pressed by anyone not competent to use them in the Cabs so having a member of public in there is risky and as said above would most certainly have to be accompanied.

Poor reply from LNER, I agree with those above, giving false hope and incorrect information as Platform staff will not be able to help you with this!

 

[tellytype]

Trash reply from LNER. Platform staff haven't a hope.

I've done the sim visit to KX - there's a 91 & an IET there. And a couple of cab runs. They were pretty simple to arrange BUT I did have the right people on the other end of an email .

 

[The Puddock]

I recently sent an email to LNER:

Dear LNER,

I was wondering, if there was somehow a way for me to be allowed in the cab of a train (presumably by getting a cab pass) or by experiencing the train cab simulator (or the ETCS simulator) you have at LNER.

and they replied with the following:

Dear Andy,
Thank you for contacting LNER.
If you head to one of the stations, you can speak to our platform staff who will assist you with your request.

…

Replies are appreciated.

Whoever at LNER responded to your email either misread it or misunderstood what you were asking.

 

[Driver2B]

Hi,

I don't know anything about LNER, but speaking for my network:

* cab pass to be in the leading driving cab of a moving train:
<0.00001% chance - sorry!

* being able to use simulators at training centre:
not much more chance, unfortunately!

* being able to see inside a stationary cab at a station:
At the discretion of the driver. If you want to see inside a stationary cab at a station when the key is not on, a driver on my network can let you have a a look around inside the cab.
You could try to get to the front of the train in plenty of time before departure and ask the driver nicely. On my network, I'd advise you to choose a location with long (15-20 mins +) turnaround times.
You might get a few refusals before finding a driver friendly enough to say yes (some drivers won't want to let you, some might not realise that they're allowed). Having a child with you and pretending it's for their benefit could make an acceptance more likely!

As I said, none of the above is about LNER, but this gives you a flavour of what another network might be able to offer.

 

[DarloRich]

Could you screen shot the email chain and take out and names etc.

It would be intresting to see the whole picture

 

[Gemz91]

I can see a load of teenagers enthusiastically running up to platform at Doncaster station today asking to go in the front cabs of trains after reading this.

 

[L401CJF]

Going back about a fair few years to my spotting days I was let into a few cabs without asking. I got invited into a 390 at Lime Street because I was taking a photo of it as the driver was walking down the platform. Very friendly chap and even gave us a free pack of crisps from the buffet! He also let us in the 57 that was just about to couple onto the front ready to drag it via Manchester.

Been let in a few Merseyrail units again just by the driver seeing us taking pictures.

More recently I was invited into a 507 cab at the terminus because my daughter waved at the guard.

I've never asked to go in a cab but some staff will invite you in. I know a few of my colleagues have done recently too.

If you do ask prepare to take no as an answer though.

Cab ride is a definite no no, don't even ask a driver or other staff about it, and organising such a thing isn't really going to happen.

I'm a guard but did get a go on our driver simulators during training as a christmas treat organised by our trainer - brilliant fun. I believe very occasionally sim sessions come up as charity auctions etc.

 

[skyhigh]

And finally, how would i arrange to get a cab pass if i wanted to ride in the cab while the train was moving?

There are various different categories of cab pass, they are not a 'magic ticket' that lets you in and to get one you need to fall into one of the criteria. Just wanting a cab ride will never get you a cab pass unfortunately. Even if you did have a cab pass the driver is still free to say no!

 

[SteveL9]

Letting a member of the public be in the cab of a moving train sounds like such a big security risk I can’t imagine it would ever be allowed to happen.

 

[43066]

I'm a guard but did get a go on our driver simulators during training as a christmas treat organised by our trainer - brilliant fun. I believe very occasionally sim sessions come up as charity auctions etc.

Ironically you‘ll likely get better graphics,
and quite possibly more accurate route layouts, from many PC based simulators these days!

 

[L401CJF]

Ironically you‘ll likely get better graphics,
and quite possibly more accurate route layouts, from many PC based simulators these days!

You're not wrong there, the visuals out the window were awful!

 

[RailExplorer]

Getting a cab ride in the UK is very difficult. I have managed to get a family member a cab ride a few times (and even a drive on the simulator), but even as a driver myself, I have really struggled to do this. I wouldn't be prepared to organise it for anyone else except family members.

If you want a cab ride, my advice would be to do it abroad. There are several countries around the world that have a far more relaxed approach to cab rides than we do in the UK. In fact, we are one of the strictest when it comes to cab access of a moving train. On a recent trip to Kenya, I spent in excess of 20 hours over 5 days in a driving cab just by talking to the driver who introduced me to so many of his colleagues.

If you just want to see inside a cab. Ask the driver nicely at a terminus station. I generally let people have a look in the cab if they ask or show an interest. Not all drivers will let you though. Be grateful and polite

 

[XAM2175]

Another option is a driving experience at a heritage railway if you're prepared to pay for it.

 

[Cloud Strife]

There are several countries around the world that have a far more relaxed approach to cab rides than we do in the UK.

I haven't been on one in a while, but it was quite routine and normal in summer for drivers of the run down Polish EN57's to drive around with the cab door wide open, especially on slower routes.

 

[bramling]

Hi Andy

Train operators can and do arrange cab rides, however it can be quite an exercise and it would require a second member of staff - almost certainly a driver manager - to accompany you for the journey, as there are “cab etiquette” requirements which mean that you cannot distract the person actually driving the train. It may or may not be possible for LNER to arrange this, depending on how agreeable they’re inclined to be. What I would say though is that crew management across the industry are very busy currently owing to the continuing strike action, which does mean regretfully that time for activities like this is in very short supply at the moment.

Of relevance, LNER I believe refused a request from Video 125 who were seeking to film a cab ride film this year. Presumably the reason for this is likely to be more to do with manager availability rather than because they simply don’t want to help. So arranging a cab ride almost certainly going to prove impossible.

Cab rides aren’t totally out of the question, but in all cases will require to be officially arranged with the operator, and specifically will require a manager to be present at all times. This is what makes them very difficult to arrange, as there simply isn’t the manager resource available. For stuff like official filming requests the manager is often provided on overtime, the cost of which is met by a fee being imposed. If you wanted to arrange something in this way it is going to cost quite hefty money, and still is by no means guaranteed to be agreed.

I’d go with the advice from others that it may be possible to get a look in a cab at a terminus. Some drivers will be amenable to this, but there will be an element of luck involved, and of course assuming the driver has time as part of their duties.

 

[Andy was Taken]

Thanks for all the answers guys.

Another option is a driving experience at a heritage railway if you're prepared to pay for it.

I'm under 18, so sadly, at the moment I haven't found anything for under 18s

Of relevance, LNER I believe refused a request from Video 125 who were seeking to film a cab ride film this year. Presumably the reason for this is likely to be more to do with manager availability rather than because they simply don’t want to help. So arranging a cab ride almost certainly going to prove impossible.

Cab rides aren’t totally out of the question, but in all cases will require to be officially arranged with the operator, and specifically will require a manager to be present at all times. This is what makes them very difficult to arrange, as there simply isn’t the manager resource available. For stuff like official filming requests the manager is often provided on overtime, the cost of which is met by a fee being imposed. If you wanted to arrange something in this way it is going to cost quite hefty money, and still is by no means guaranteed to be agreed.

I’d go with the advice from others that it may be possible to get a look in a cab at a terminus. Some drivers will be amenable to this, but there will be an element of luck involved, and of course assuming the driver has time as part of their duties.

How much would the driver manager need to be paid for say, a 1 hour journey? If it's a reasonable amount i would be willing to pay. Also, wouldn't i need to know someone on the railway to arrange a cab ride, and if not, who would i send an email to? (I've been in the cab in the terminus twice so far, and I've only asked 2 drivers, so they seem to be nice. Great when i can talk to them about something interesting and ask questions).

Trash reply from LNER. Platform staff haven't a hope.

I've done the sim visit to KX - there's a 91 & an IET there. And a couple of cab runs. They were pretty simple to arrange BUT I did have the right people on the other end of an email .

Could you perhaps provide me with more info about the simulator and maybe their emails or something?



Does anyone know anyone who manages simulators? (For the cab ones)

If i wanted to go on them would if cost, and if so how much?

Replies are appreciated

 

[bcarmicle]

How much would the driver manager need to be paid for say, a 1 hour journey? If it's a reasonable amount i would be willing to pay.

I would suspect this would be upwards of £1000, not because the driver manager gets paid that much, but simply because of the overhead that would be involved in organising this.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they wouldn't do it for a private individual and it would only be available to media and documentary makers.

 

[bramling]

Thanks for all the answers guys.

I'm under 18, so sadly, at the moment I haven't found anything for under 18s

How much would the driver manager need to be paid for say, a 1 hour journey? If it's a reasonable amount i would be willing to pay. Also, wouldn't i need to know someone on the railway to arrange a cab ride, and if not, who would i send an email to?

You’d need to do it through the usual customer relations channels.

It’s not going to come cheap, as realistically it would likely end up having to be a whole shift’s worth. Taking administration into consideration you’d be looking at a good few hundred - and that’s if the TOC is prepared to go to the bother of arranging. It’s certainly worth a try, though.

 

[Andy was Taken]

But what if the driver manager had been managing a driver up to then, and then went to a different driver (eg the one i would Ride with)? Wouldn't i only have to pay a bit of overtime?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2023 ==

(talking about @bramling 's post

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I don't know if they still do it, because it was pre-virus when it was being done, but Swiss Railways were selling cab rides subject to certain conditions. I'm not sure, but I think one of the conditions was you had to be over 18 anyway, so that probably wouldn't help you at the moment.

It was certainly rather pricey, plus you'd have the cost of getting there and staying there as well.

Unfortunately it's virtually impossible to Google ( I just tried to look for you ) because of the number of Swiss cab ride video details floating around... which dominate the search results...

 

[43066]

and that’s if the TOC is prepared to go to the bother of arranging. It’s certainly worth a try, though.

This is likely to be the major issue. It’s an faff to arrange for what is ultimately an unnecessary use of resources, at a time when they’re already stretched pretty thinly.

This kind of thing is occasionally offered as a charity auction prize - my place did this recently, with prizes including a go on the sims and a cab ride - so looking out for this kind of thing (and being prepared to pay!) is perhaps the best approach.

 

[bramling]

But what if the driver manager had been managing a driver up to then, and then went to a different driver (eg the one i would Ride with)? Wouldn't i only have to pay a bit of overtime?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2023 ==

(talking about @bramling 's post

Doubtful. The industry just doesn’t work like that, even if seems entirely logical.

The way it would work in practice is: customer services contacts senior management and asks if they’re prepared to do it, if yes then operations team will be contacted and told to try and sort it, then it’s a case of seeing if someone is prepared to do it (which someone probably would as it’s an easy day’s OT).

As can be seen, there’s several hurdles to be crossed, hence why the general view on here is don’t get hopes up too high.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2023 ==

This is likely to be the major issue. It’s an faff to arrange for what is ultimately an unnecessary use of resources, at a time when they’re already stretched pretty thinly.

This kind of thing is occasionally offered as a charity auction prize - my place did this recently, with prizes including a go on the sims and a cab ride - so looking out for this kind of thing (and being prepared to pay!) is perhaps the best approach.

Or in the case of my place, a certain senior manager handing out cab rides as prizes for a pub quiz he was involved in at his local!

In that instance there was no OT involved, just someone pulled off their normal duty to facilitate it. Not quite sure what would have happened had anything arisen while resources were tied up for this…

 

[43066]

Or in the case of my place, a certain senior manager handing out cab rides as prizes for a pub quiz he was involved in at his local!

In that instance there was no OT involved, just someone pulled off their normal duty to facilitate it. Not quite sure what would have happened had anything arisen while resources were tied up for this…

Just don’t tell the DfT!

 

[Re 4/4]

I don't know if they still do it, because it was pre-virus when it was being done, but Swiss Railways were selling cab rides subject to certain conditions. I'm not sure, but I think one of the conditions was you had to be over 18 anyway, so that probably wouldn't help you at the moment.

It was certainly rather pricey, plus you'd have the cost of getting there and staying there as well.

Unfortunately it's virtually impossible to Google ( I just tried to look for you ) because of the number of Swiss cab ride video details floating around... which dominate the search results...

Not SBB but there's this: https://www.zentralbahn.ch/de/führerstandsfahrt

They'll take under 18s accompanied by an adult. 650 CHF for two, and they throw in a return ticket in 1st class. Lucerne to Interlaken over the Brünig, a line that's well worth seeing.

 

[TreacleMiller]

Thanks for all the answers guys.

I'm under 18, so sadly, at the moment I haven't found anything for under 18s

How much would the driver manager need to be paid for say, a 1 hour journey? If it's a reasonable amount i would be willing to pay. Also, wouldn't i need to know someone on the railway to arrange a cab ride, and if not, who would i send an email to? (I've been in the cab in the terminus twice so far, and I've only asked 2 drivers, so they seem to be nice. Great when i can talk to them about something interesting and ask questions).


Could you perhaps provide me with more info about the simulator and maybe their emails or something?



Does anyone know anyone who manages simulators? (For the cab ones)

If i wanted to go on them would if cost, and if so how much?

Replies are appreciated

As I said previoulsy, an open day or charity auction of some sort would be the best chance possible. Paying wont matter Im affraid, its not a case of will from you or covering a cost - its just not a service offered. No "central" team controls the sim and there isnt a contact address for it.

Our own staff CANNOT request sim time, its done on demand for assessment and training. There are staff internally that want to be drivers and fancy a crack on the sim - its very hard for them to do it and often will "pop in" while a driver is being trained and still be declined.

This is what the sim looks like - basic graphics but otherwise fully functional.

Best to temper the desire for now and have a look at heritage railways as an option.