London’s newest train line is now also its busiest - The Economist, UK

[Benjwri]

All of that hassle lengthening them from 7 coaches. The thought of it all over again to get them to 11 is exhausting just to think about.

Not to mention they sold the land at the end of Okd Oak Depot, and it is now blocks of flats, so there would be nowhere to maintain 11 cars.

 

[Krokodil]

Not to mention they sold the land at the end of Okd Oak Depot, and it is now blocks of flats, so there would be nowhere to maintain 11 cars.

D'oh!

 

[Mgameing123]

All of that hassle lengthening them from 7 coaches. The thought of it all over again to get them to 11 is exhausting just to think about.

The platforms are built to be extended in the future.

 

[swt_passenger]

Surely it isn't a surprise that if the Elizabeth Line provides a more convenient route into Central London from Abbey Wood and Woolwich it will attract some custom off slower Southeastern services to London Bridge, etc.?

Was predicted by NR in 2018 as:

A 50% reduction in passenger numbers west of Abbey Wood, reducing to 35% by 2031.
A 25% increase east of Abbey Wood rising to 45% by 2031.

They’re obviously old figures, but can be found on P38 of this:
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-co...South-East-Kent-route-study-print-version.pdf

 

[jdp30]

Not to mention they sold the land at the end of Okd Oak Depot, and it is now blocks of flats, so there would be nowhere to maintain 11 cars.

Looking at OOC on GMaps, there does seem to be room for the ~40m extra needed at the front of the sidings, but it would involve completely re-working the pointwork and will likely lose some of the sidings in the process.

 

[ijmad]

The newly built core stations have provision for 11 coaches IIRC. The sidings/depots on the other hand....

This was discussed earlier in the thread - all (or most) the stations on the GEML and GWML would need further platform extensions, as would Heathrow, which is underground directly below an active airport.

Would be eye-wateringly expensive and disruptive.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The platforms are built to be extended in the future.

I was talking about the trains in the post you quoted.

 

[ijmad]

I believe that GWR has moved the Didcot Parkway service to the fast lines in the May timetable.

Does this mean Elizabeth Line is now the only passenger service on the reliefs?

 

[jdp30]

This was discussed earlier in the thread - all (or most) the stations on the GEML and GWML would need further platform extensions, as would Heathrow, which is underground directly below an active airport.

Would be eye-wateringly expensive and disruptive.

The only way I could see it happening is to use SDO on the branches. Doesn't solve the depot problem though.

 

[PGAT]

11 coaches is pointless if SDO is used for every station. This may have been discussed before but Heathrow specifically is troublesome because longer trains foul the crossovers

 

[Non Multi]

I believe that GWR has moved the Didcot Parkway service to the fast lines in the May timetable.

Does this mean Elizabeth Line is now the only passenger service on the reliefs?

There's still late night GWR stopping trains on the West London reliefs. During the day it's EL only on the reliefs between Acton Main Line and Langley.

 

[ScotGG]

Was predicted by NR in 2018 as:

A 50% reduction in passenger numbers west of Abbey Wood, reducing to 35% by 2031.
A 25% increase east of Abbey Wood rising to 45% by 2031.

They’re obviously old figures, but can be found on P38 of this:
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-co...South-East-Kent-route-study-print-version.pdf

That feels a lifetime away now. The intention was to ramp up services from the other Dartford two lines to the south (Eltham and Sidcup) with four loop line services from the other two branches heading to ABW as well as four tph at least to Kent/Medway. That hasn't happened due to service cuts though I'd wager they'd be plenty of demand if the very poor existing timetable reverted back to pre Dec 2022 levels.

NR are also not the best at forecasting or being on top of housing and planning changes and a lot has changed since 2018. Thousands more homes now planned at the north of Bexley borough.

In the short term SouthEastern service cuts will likely drive people away from using Southeastern either side of Abbey Wood to connect to the EL, and yet in 5-10 years when major growth is well underway those predicted falls are too great.

 

[coppercapped]

I believe that GWR has moved the Didcot Parkway service to the fast lines in the May timetable.

Does this mean Elizabeth Line is now the only passenger service on the reliefs?

Between Paddington and Slough (Dolphin Junction) only, these Didcot trains remain on the Reliefs west of Slough.

A flat crossing manoeuvre at only 40mph on and off the Mains would seem to be a hostage to fortune regarding consequential delays. It's bad enough at Airport Junction in the Up direction.

 

[ScotGG]

I suppose the key question, which we're unlikely to ever get a definitive answer on, is how many car journeys has the Elizabeth line eliminated.

Perhaps we might be able to estimate that from how TfL's overall ridership changed pre-and post-EL opening.

In Kent and Abbey Wood it's increased car journeys if anything.

The DfT and Southeastern cutting rail services through Abbey Wood (SouthEastern cut 2 tph and also switched the 2 tph loop line) linking to Elizabeth line services has made connections to various areas far worse since Dec 2022 - and so driving is more appealing.

There's now just two tph to Kent/Medway from Abbey Wood so often you'll arrive on the nice, new, sleek EL and find waits of up to 30 minutes - when until recently that was unheard of. There was 8-10 tph through ABW. No more.

 

[Taunton]

There's still late night GWR stopping trains on the West London reliefs. During the day it's EL only on the reliefs between Acton Main Line and Langley.

Or, to put it another way, the whole of Paddington main line station now arrives and leaves just on the 2-track Main lines.

 

[Horizon22]

Or, to put it another way, the whole of Paddington main line station now arrives and leaves just on the 2-track Main lines.

Yes, but the number of services running from that station has also reduced of course. GWR did have to reconsider the "Bristol fasts" to make this happen.

 

[Mikey C]

In Kent and Abbey Wood it's increased car journeys if anything.

The DfT and Southeastern cutting rail services through Abbey Wood (SouthEastern cut 2 tph and also switched the 2 tph loop line) linking to Elizabeth line services has made connections to various areas far worse since Dec 2022 - and so driving is more appealing.

There's now just two tph to Kent/Medway from Abbey Wood so often you'll arrive on the nice, new, sleek EL and find waits of up to 30 minutes - when until recently that was unheard of. There was 8-10 tph through ABW. No more.

A ridiculous situation really where on the TfL side you have a high frequency Liz Line plus new higher capacity replacement DLR trains arriving, yet also have the Southeastern services cut from what they were. It's as if two separate planning models are being used.

 

[ijmad]

It's as if two separate planning models are being used.

That's exactly what's happening, the current national government believe rail services should pay for themselves and make a profit, whereas the London government believes rail is a public service that is a means to generate economic activity and persuade people out of their polluting cars.

 

[Horizon22]

A ridiculous situation really where on the TfL side you have a high frequency Liz Line plus new higher capacity replacement DLR trains arriving, yet also have the Southeastern services cut from what they were. It's as if two separate planning models are being used.

Its 4tph (include Thameslink not 2tph as the user suggsted (and 6tph if you include the rounder) but they are really badly spaced (3 minutes between Thameslink and Southeastern to Gravesend).

And yes TfL and DfT don't exact see eye to eye on these sort of things!

 

[ScotGG]

Ah yes sorry it is 4tph to Kent from Abbey Wood (the rounders of course turn back before reaching Kent right on the London/Kent boundary) but as you say with 27 minutes gap between Kent-bound services then two in about three minutes in effect it's almost 2 tph.

Very poor planning, and an incentive to drive into/away from Abbey Wood rather than rely on using a connecting SouthEastern service if heading to Dartford/Gravesend/Medway.

 

[NSEWonderer]

1 year anniversary slips through silently today it seems. Look forward tho to improvements nonetheless. Has had some great moments irrespective of disruption etc.

 

[telstarbox]

Still very well used - I was on an offpeak service yesterday which had all seats full when it terminated at Abbey Wood.

 

[matt]

Just a reminder that any speculative ideas need to be posted in speculative discussion. A thread for this has been created here https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...th-line-services-be-improved-extended.249158/

 

[NSEWonderer]

Severe delays on the line woolwich side due to a broken down train that escalated into a driver displacement issue