TPE franchise to move to OLR

[tomuk]

Which can be complied with by a direct award of the contract for the service to DFT OLR Holdings Ltd, as has already been done with LNER.

No that doesn't comply and is only temporary due to the continued fallout from covid and the industry reform into GBR.

 

[DanNCL]

No that doesn't comply and is only temporary due to the continued fallout from covid and the industry reform into GBR.

How doesn’t it comply? It’s still contracted out, the fact that the company it’s contracted to is government owned is irrelevant.

LNER has been under the OLR since well before Covid was a thing. If they had any genuine intention of privatising it again they’d have made an effort to do so by now.

 

[tomuk]

Unlike the Guardian Christian Wolmar article that has a picture of a TPE train loaned out on a Northern Rail Service to Barrow-in-Furness

The government has had to take over yet another railway – and yet it still balks at full nationalisation | Christian Wolmar

The Conservatives are on a TransPennine Express to nowhere, says the author and podcaster Christian Wolmar

www.theguardian.com

Another poor take by Wolmar.

 

[185]

First Group leave the picture. Beyond that it isn't yet clear, the OLR may keep the existing senior management

And that's the problem. The same people who aimed the titanic at the iceberg are being given both a new boat and iceberg.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

First Group leave the picture. Beyond that it isn't yet clear, the OLR may keep the existing senior management team or they may bring in a new team. Front line employees and middle management will TUPE over.

Senior Management will also TUPE over if they are TPE employees. TUPE applies to everyone employed by a business whether they are the most senior or most junior person.

 

[RailWonderer]

Will OLR make sure all Cleethorpes services run to Manchester or Liverpool? Many start/terminate at Sheffield and don't even run to Cleethropes, it's a hodge podge mess, and scrimping costs on crews having the right route knowledge was a terrible idea. RL is a basic operating cost when running a railway, so that the service is actually useable. If they were going to cut costs not extending the Mk5 lease and handing back a few 185s would have been the better solution.

On the plus side the OLR management will have to be more competant than the current TPE leadership, which publically admitted failure and came across as very defeatist.

People saying OLR won't make a difference have to realise this is about sending a message saying failure is not rewarded, and that the government are aware of the chaos basically (not that they'll do anything much on the immediate term)

 

[tomuk]

How doesn’t it comply? It’s still contracted out, the fact that the company it’s contracted to is government owned is irrelevant.

Section 25 - in England and Wales franchisees can't be public sector organisations.

LNER has been under the OLR since well before Covid was a thing. If they had any genuine intention of privatising it again they’d have made an effort to do so by now.

Firstly LNER is operated under the auspices of section 30 and DfT makes pains to state the fact and that the agreement to operate until 2023 was not a franchise agreement as it would not comply with the act.
Secondly the long agreement and other direct awards were made prior to covid while the Williams review was taking place to establish the future of franchising.

 

[DanNCL]

Senior Management will also TUPE over if they are TPE employees. TUPE applies to everyone employed by a business whether they are the most senior or most junior person.

Indeed although it’s not too difficult for the OLR to dismiss them if they’re considered to be failing to carry out their jobs properly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2023 ==

Section 25 - in England and Wales franchisees can't be public sector organisations.

Firstly LNER is operated under the auspices of section 30 and DfT makes pains to state the fact and that the agreement to operate until 2023 was not a franchise agreement as it would not comply with the act.
Secondly the long agreement and other direct awards were made prior to covid while the Williams review was taking place to establish the future of franchising.

A franchisee can’t be. These aren’t franchisees these are holders of National Rail Contracts and it doesn’t say they can’t be public sector, or indeed for that matter I’m not sure National Rail Contracts are mentioned at all. Franchises ceased to exist in 2020.

Reports I’ve seen, which unfortunately I can’t share at the minute but will later if I can find them again, show “LNER” aka DFT OLR Holdings Ltd receiving a direct award until 2025.

 

[tomuk]

Indeed although it’s not too difficult for the OLR to dismiss them if they’re considered to be failing to carry out their jobs properly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2023 ==


A franchisee can’t be. These aren’t franchisees these are holders of National Rail Contracts and it doesn’t say they can’t be public sector, or indeed for that matter I’m not sure National Rail Contracts are mentioned at all. Franchises ceased to exist in 2020.

Reports I’ve seen, which unfortunately I can’t share at the minute but will later if I can find them again, show “LNER” aka DFT OLR Holdings Ltd receiving a direct award until 2025.

All passenger services should be franchised to non public sector operators and competitively tendered under current legislation. Due to current circumstances 'traditional' franchises aren't viable so you have the NRCs. As the preamble of all the NRCs state.

National Rail Contracts are the successors to the previous Franchise Agreements, enabling the
Secretary of State to appoint private sector operators to run rail services in line with its
statutory duties.

 

[JW4]

The Transport Secretary has today (11 May 2023) announced he will not renew or extend Transpennine Express’s (TPE) contract at the end of the month. This will bring the company into operator of last resort (OLR) from 28 May 2023.

Transpennine Express to be brought into operator of last resort

Transport Secretary has announced he will not renew or extend Transpennine Express's contract.

www.gov.uk

Avanti next please

 

[Benjwri]

The EU was very unhappy about direct awards, and they were supposed to be limited to two years while competitive bids were sourced.

Those were direct awards to a private company. The EU cannot complain about direct awards to the public sector when almost all their railways are run by the public sector.

While the EU is not in the regulatory frame any more, the competition element is still a factor.
People are happy for First to lose TPE, but how do you boot out underperforming public sector TOCs (eg like TfW)?

When was there last competition for a franchise? The railways are already a monopoly because it’s a huge task to take over a franchise, and far less money in it these days.

All passenger services should be franchised to non public sector operators and competitively tendered under current legislation. Due to current circumstances 'traditional' franchises aren't viable so you have the NRCs. As the preamble of all the NRCs state.

It’s been made clear NRCs are the precursor to GBR, the preamble is just legal speak as such. Regardless of the progress on GBR by the next General Election, Labour isn’t going to go back towards privatisation. I’d say the chances of a franchise every being awarded again is pretty much zero.

 

[Halish Railway]

When was there last competition for a franchise? The railways are already a monopoly because it’s a huge task to take over a franchise, and far less money in it these days.

EMR? The franchise began in August 2019, although there was only one bidder, Abellio so can it really be considered to be a competition?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

EMR? The franchise began in August 2019, although there was only one bidder, Abellio so can it really be considered to be a competition?

I certainly wouldn't call that competition, since it's basically just winning at that point.

 

[Benjwri]

EMR? The franchise began in August 2019, although there was only one bidder, Abellio so can it really be considered to be a competition?

This is my point, there is no competition. One bidder isn’t competition, and there is only one bidder because no one wants the costs of taking over a franchise when it would take years to break even.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This is my point, there is no competition. One bidder isn’t competition, and there is only one bidder because no one wants the costs of taking over a franchise when it would take years to break even.

GBR will reset the TOC market, one way or another, presumably with concession-type contracts rather than franchises.
You don't hear grumbles about Arriva's LO contract or MTR's EL contract, both of them competed for (by TfL).
We are left with the notion that longer-distance TOCs will have some commercial independence in the GBR model.

 

[Fastlane256]

We need SWR next, that’s assuming the DFT will have the same level of impact as it did with LNER.

 

[tomuk]

Those were direct awards to a private company. The EU cannot complain about direct awards to the public sector when almost all their railways are run by the public sector.

Yes they can and did see bank bailouts and Williamds and Glyn and TSb

When was there last competition for a franchise? The railways are already a monopoly because it’s a huge task to take over a franchise, and far less money in it these days.

Yes with the state of the industry as it stands there would be little attraction in a traditional franchise, this was becoming the case even before covid. I'm not sure what you mean by a monopoly there are plenty of other options for travel.

It’s been made clear NRCs are the precursor to GBR, the preamble is just legal speak as such. Regardless of the progress on GBR by the next General Election, Labour isn’t going to go back towards privatisation. I’d say the chances of a franchise every being awarded again is pretty much zero.

It isn't just legal speak it is what the law currently says. The future government like any other can change the law if it wants and has the time to do so (and parliament agrees).

 

[ainsworth74]

We need SWR next, that’s assuming the DFT will have the same level of impact as it did with LNER.

Surely it's the opposite? One of the reasons, to my understanding, that LNER have been successful as they have been (and Northern with varying degrees have steadied the ship) is that ironically the OLR structure means that the DfT leave to get on with running the railway rather than trying to micromanage, to the same degree, everything as they do on the former franchised operations like TPE. So hopefully TPE will improve as the DfT will hopefully play a lesser role.

 

[cactustwirly]

We need SWR next, that’s assuming the DFT will have the same level of impact as it did with LNER.

Why? There's nothing wrong with SWR.
Obviously the 701s are late, but Bombardier/Alstoms poor build is nothing to do with SWR

 

[krus_aragon]

The FAQs on the TPE are laughable.
Has "Can I still bring my bike?" ever been asked about the OLR taking over any failed franchise?

Maybe they're worried that the recent cries of "on yer bike!" apply to them, rather than TPE senior management.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

We need SWR next, that’s assuming the DFT will have the same level of impact as it did with LNER.

They’ve fulfilled next to none of their (many, and major) franchise commitments, but they no longer have to.

 

[Intercity110]

The FAQs on the TPE are laughable.
Has "Can I still bring my bike?" ever been asked about the OLR taking over any failed franchise?

That was the most pointless FAQ I’ve ever read. You could just say ‘Nothing will change, everything that would be valid will be valid.’

 

[tomuk]

Surely it's the opposite? One of the reasons, to my understanding, that LNER have been successful as they have been (and Northern with varying degrees have steadied the ship) is that ironically the OLR structure means that the DfT leave to get on with running the railway rather than trying to micromanage, to the same degree, everything as they do on the former franchised operations like TPE. So hopefully TPE will improve as the DfT will hopefully play a lesser role.

At LNER and the other OLR TOCs there has been a more handsoff role by DfT to a degree. This remained through covid as the structures were already established compared to the on the fly nature of the ERMAs at the franchised TOCs. However in more recent times as the subsidy required and funding available due to inflation etc the relationship has become more strained and DFT have taken a tighter reign.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Based on some of the things that Northern have done (or have not done) since (re-)"nationalisation" to amend things that were part of the specification for the Arriva franchise when it was awarded, I can't say I'm totally enthused by this move. Sure, TPE have been practically worthless recently - but as others have stated, nothing can or will change short term. And in the longer term, if DOR does another "Northern" we may expect to see timetable reductions (some seemingly inexplicable) and so on. And no material positive changes. Ho hum.

 

[ainsworth74]

At LNER and the other OLR TOCs there has been a more handsoff role by DfT to a degree. This remained through covid as the structures were already established compared to the on the fly nature of the ERMAs at the franchised TOCs. However in more recent times as the subsidy required and funding available due to inflation etc the relationship has become more strained and DFT have taken a tighter reign.

Excellent. I look forward to everything getting worse in that case

 

[andythebrave]

I am but a simple passenger, sorry, customer. If it turns out that only half of current services end up in some sort of emergency timetable but they are pretty much guaranteed to run then that'll do for me; anything that gives more certainty and fewer sleepless nights please.

 

[Andyh82]

To mark the occasion, according to reports on Twitter and confirmed by real time trains, they provided an hours gap between trains out of Leeds towards Manchester at 5pm tonight and then the first train to arrive was a 3 car 185

https://twitter.com/burtains/status/1656707566376828948?s=61&t=wGyqkUkQD69qK0u8z2C_Yw

 

[Killingworth]

To mark the occasion, according to reports on Twitter and confirmed by real time trains, they provided an hours gap between trains out of Leeds towards Manchester at 5pm tonight and then the first train to arrive was a 3 car 185

https://twitter.com/burtains/status/1656707566376828948?s=61&t=wGyqkUkQD69qK0u8z2C_Yw

3 trains with clearly different problems meaning they all passed through Leeds in 10 minutes with 14 cars.

See; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...30?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=actual&toc=TP

 

[td97]

3 trains with clearly different problems meaning they all passed through Leeds in 10 minutes with 14 cars.

See; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...30?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=actual&toc=TP

See

Realtime Trains | Departures from Leeds between 1630 and 1830 on 11/05/2023

Train information at Leeds between 1630 and 1830 on 11/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Showing the cancelled services.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

They’ve fulfilled next to none of their (many, and major) franchise commitments, but they no longer have to.

Because the franchise commitments have no relevance as they are for a contract that has been long since terminated, you are talking about commitments from a previous contract.

That’s the same as saying LNER haven’t fulfilled the commitment to run 3tph to Leeds because the previous contract said it would!