Caught with Short Fare

[21Averxge]

I was caught with a short fare (the next station) when I was seen getting off a train from London (direct). My trainline QR code was scanned and the member of staff took a photo on this phone of the screen of the device he used to scan my mobile ticket. I have been doing this for a few weeks and he said that they will check my trainline history, although I did not admit to this or in insinuate It was a regular occupancy. I gave my details, name address and DOB, but did not conduct any more of the interview. I signed his note pad to accept I had been cautioned.

My questions are:

- what are the chances my history will be checked and how easily is it proved that all the other trips weren’t in good faith.

- how long does the letter take to arrive from GWR / SWR

- how often is a out of court settlement appeal approved. What are the chances it goes straight to conviction and criminal record with previous possible fare evasion shown on trainline history

- if I receive a letter to give my side of the story, Is it immediately obvious within the letter that they are chasing for one instance or multiple instances.

If asked I will not lie, nor will I try to downplay or provide excuses for my actions. I take full responsibility for this and I understood the consequences.

Any previous experience or any expertise on this matter is greatly appreciated. I will of course be paying the full fare going forward.

Thank you

 

[awaythrow12312]

Did you get a penalty fare ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2023 ==

Or did they say they were giving you the prosecute spill?

 

[21Averxge]

Did you get a penalty fare ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2023 ==

Or did they say they were giving you the prosecute spill?

I did not receive a penalty fare, notice or any documents. I was not offered a penalty fare either to pay for the unpaid ticket

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2023 ==

I did not receive a penalty fare, notice or any documents. I was not offered a penalty fare either to pay for the unpaid ticket

They did say I was going to receive a letter in the post regarding this. I assume it is a prosecution going to come through

 

[awaythrow12312]

How did you act with the member of staff? same thing has happened for me but the other way around with getting a penalty fare and it was on the train at the time.

Is it a big discrepancy on the total cost of the journey vs. what you bought? (how far are you travelling outside of London?) either way GL mate. I'm sure they will offer some sort of settlement but you might want to start tracking how many times you've done it.

 

[21Averxge]

How did you act with the member of staff? same thing has happened for me but the other way around with getting a penalty fare and it was on the train at the time.

Is it a big discrepancy on the total cost of the journey vs. what you bought? (how far are you travelling outside of London?) either way GL mate. I'm sure they will offer some sort of settlement but you might want to start tracking how many times you've done it.

I was complaint and calm. Hesitant to give out any more information that needed. He took a disliking to me though. But I was calm and did not swear.

 

[gray1404]

Which train company are you dealing with? What are the stations concerned?

 

[21Averxge]

Which train company are you dealing with? What are the stations concerned?

GWR

 

[Gloster]

I am not one of the experts, but a few comments. You will probably get a letter through the post: these usually take around four to six weeks, but can (rarely) take up to six months. This will give you an opportunity to explain yourself: others will give advice how best to do this. A couple of points: you do not have the automatic right to an out of court settlement: that is the railway’s decision. (Note: a fine is what a court imposes, not any arrangement that you may come to with the railway.) Do not at any time make a false statement: you might be surprised as to how much the railway is entitled to discover during their investigation and if you try to mislead them, well…

If you do manage to get an out of court settlement, the sum is often £100-120 plus the full cost of Anytime Singles for the journeys that they consider that you made.

I am not an expert, so anything that the experts say, particularly hadders, is to be paid attention to.

 

[Haywain]

I would add that, fortunately, GWR only tend to go to court as a last resort and will usually settle. However, when they have checked your online buying history this will be expensive.

 

[21Averxge]

I would add that, fortunately, GWR only tend to go to court as a last resort and will usually settle. However, when they have checked your online buying history this will be expensive.

I am more than happy to pay the balance if it means no criminal record.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I am more than happy to pay the balance if it means no criminal record.

As @Haywain has commented, this could be expensive. You've not really clarified how often / how many times you've been short-faring (= a few weeks?).

Just 30 x single journeys @ £29.20 per journey plus the admin fee on top would quite easily very soon be approaching a £1000+ total.

 

[21Averxge]

As @Haywain has commented, this could be expensive. You've not really indicated how often / how many times you've been short-faring. Just 30 x single journeys @ £29.20 per journey plus the admin fee on top would easily very soon be approaching a £1000 total.

Yes, unfortunately.

I would like to know how far back they trace. I have only been in this location for this period of time having moved back home for the time being.

Unless there is an alternative ending that you know of excluding criminal record worthy conviction or paying the fine.

 

[gray1404]

That's funny because as soon as I saw your thread I suspected it might be a Paddington to Reading journey. The good news is this train company are one of the more reasonable ones to settle with so provided you engage with them you should be able to reach an out of course settlement. This will be the full cost of the fares avoided on each occasion plus an administration fee to cover their costs.

I am assuming you have been boarding Reading services from the unbarriered platforms at Paddington.

 

[21Averxge]

That's funny because as soon as I saw your thread I suspected it might be a Paddington to Reading journey. The good news is this train company are one of the more reasonable ones to settle with so provided you engage with them you should be able to reach an out of course settlement. This will be the full cost of the fares avoided on each occasion plus an administration fee to cover their costs.

I am assuming you have been boarding Reading services from the unbarriered platforms at Paddington.

Does anyone know the process of the investigation? Will I receive an open ended letter asking me to fess up to my evasions or will they indicate what they have found and ask for a response?

 

[gray1404]

You will most likely receive a standard letter saying that you have been reported for an offence on the date you were stopped and inviting you to reply to offer anything in mitigation. It would be fair to assume that they will have investigated your online buying history in the meantime.

 

[21Averxge]

You will most likely receive a standard letter saying that you have been reported for an offence on the date you were stopped and inviting you to reply to offer anything in mitigation. It would be fair to assume that they will have investigated your online buying history in the meantime.

Thank you for your input, much appreciated. I will keep it in mind when formulating my reply. However, could I then be incriminating myself should they only be attempting to reclaim the single journey I was caught for?

 

[Haywain]

Thank you for your input, much appreciated. I will keep it in mind when formulating my reply. However, could I then be incriminating myself should they only be attempting to reclaim the single journey I was caught for?

Reply to what you are asked. That's all.

 

[21Averxge]

Reply to what you are asked. That's all.

Okay thank you. Do you know if they usually provide an open ended question. Will it specify along the lines of

‘You were caught on XX/XX with the incorrect ticket please provide your reasoning’

‘You have been under investigate for multiple occurrences of fare evasion please provide your reasoning’

 

[gray1404]

It could go either way. They may only mention the specific instance in which you were stopped or they may say that they have looked into your online purchasing records. We will have to wait and see when their latter arrives.

 

[21Averxge]

It could go either way. They may only mention the specific instance in which you were stopped or they may say that they have looked into your online purchasing records. We will have to wait and see when their latter arrives.

I will keep you all updated. Thank you all you have put my mind a little more at ease

 

[Birmingham]

That's funny because as soon as I saw your thread I suspected it might be a Paddington to Reading journey. The good news is this train company are one of the more reasonable ones to settle with so provided you engage with them you should be able to reach an out of course settlement. This will be the full cost of the fares avoided on each occasion plus an administration fee to cover their costs.

I am assuming you have been boarding Reading services from the unbarriered platforms at Paddington.

If the OP was caught at Reading not Paddington, why did the member of staff suspect the OP of fare evasion from Paddington rather than a genuine journey from the nearby station given the gatelines at Reading are for all platforms?

Maybe there was a simultaneous operation at the nearby station authorising genuine passengers from that station?

 

[Wolfie]

Yes, unfortunately, can’t pay the fine, don’t do the crime. I am stupid enough to dodge fares so I am stupid enough to part ways with that much money should it be required. It was there and back 5 days a week for a total of 29 days actually. So yes, we’re looking into the 1.8k 1.9k numbers.

I would like to know how far back they trace. I have only been in this location for this period of time having moved back home for the time being. Do they trace as far back as I admit to? How do I play this once I get a letter.

Unless there is an alternative ending that you know of excluding criminal record worthy conviction or paying the fine.

The Trainline routinely cooperate with TOCs in the situation you describe. Assume that the train company will have full access to your whole ticket purchase record.

Something about the wording of your second para concerns me. It could be taken as possibly implying that you were previously doing something similar in a different location. I'm not asking you to answer that comment (indeed l would advise you not to) BUT if that is true don't be surprised if questions arise at the very least.

 

[21Averxge]

The Trainline routinely cooperate with TOCs in the situation you describe. Assume that the train company will have full access to your whole ticket purchase record.

Something about the wording of your second para concerns me. It could be taken as possibly implying that you were previously doing something similar in a different location. I'm not asking you to answer that comment (indeed l would advise you not to) BUT if that is true don't be surprised if questions arise at the very least.

No not at another location as the fares were not as large. It was a question as to should I admit to the full amount of times I did this over the past couple of weeks or will they indicate how far back they suspect.

 

[swt_passenger]

If the OP was caught at Reading not Paddington, why did the member of staff suspect the OP of fare evasion from Paddington rather than a genuine journey from the nearby station given the gatelines at Reading are for all platforms?

Maybe there was a simultaneous operation at the nearby station authorising genuine passengers from that station?

Perhaps he had got off a non stopping train? in the first post he used ‘direct’ but he may be using that in terms of stops.

 

[Haywain]

It was a question as to should I admit to the full amount of times I did this over the past couple of weeks or will they indicate how far back they suspect.

As I mentioned before, you should answer any questions you are asked honestly but you do not need to incriminate yourself.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Perhaps he had got off a non stopping train? in the first post he used ‘direct’ but he may be using that in terms of stops.

Yes. I’m thinking Platform 7. Had the OP been aware of the possibility of being observed in this way, they could have used the rear barriers. However, they’d still have been caught eventually, with more serious consequences.

 

[fandroid]

Yes. I’m thinking Platform 7. Had the OP been aware of the possibility of being observed in this way, they could have used the rear barriers. However, they’d still have been caught eventually, with more serious consequences.

But even if the OP was seen coming off a fast train from Paddington on platform 7, why was he stopped? Lots of people would do exactly the same thing and just go through the ticket gates. Perhaps those are set to reject any tickets from Twyford?

Perhaps he fell into the "Leeds trap" with an RPI as he approached the unpaid fares window at the other gates that face onto platform 7.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

But even if the OP was seen coming off a fast train from Paddington on platform 7, why was he stopped? Lots of people would do exactly the same thing and just go through the ticket gates. Perhaps those are set to reject any tickets from Twyford?

I’ve seen it said on here that when a passenger scans an e-ticket at a gate, staff can use mobile devices to see the details of the e-ticket in real time. (It was in response to a complaint that staff at a gate were “standing around looking at their phones”.)

I must admit I was quite surprised they’d implemented something that clever - as, apparently, was the OP. If one is looking to evade fares then the e-ticket giveth and the e-ticket taketh away…

 

[Wallsendmag]

I’ve seen it said on here that when a passenger scans an e-ticket at a gate, staff can use mobile devices to see the details of the e-ticket in real time. (It was in response to a complaint that staff at a gate were “standing around looking at their phones”.)

I must admit I was quite surprised they’d implemented something that clever - as, apparently, was the OP. If one is looking to evade fares then the e-ticket giveth and the e-ticket taketh away…

Indeed they can that’s part Of the reason for the move to Smart ticketing. Much better info on how tickets are used or misused

 

[fandroid]

I’ve seen it said on here that when a passenger scans an e-ticket at a gate, staff can use mobile devices to see the details of the e-ticket in real time. (It was in response to a complaint that staff at a gate were “standing around looking at their phones”.)

I must admit I was quite surprised they’d implemented something that clever - as, apparently, was the OP. If one is looking to evade fares then the e-ticket giveth and the e-ticket taketh away…

I suppose it's an inevitable move to reduce the short fare travel which is only easily indulged in by the move to online purchase of etickets.

But perhaps this is for another thread and not helping the OP