TV Alert - Dispatches on Channel 4 ''Train Journeys from Hell"

[Nevasleep]

Something has to be done about the Anytime fares.
They are far too high. A friend got "ripped off" before, by buying just before end of London Peak.

Ugh!, deffo playing up for the phone. Although most companies have got rid of the automated phone services. However the national rail website is fantastic.

 

[yorkie]

Twitter responses/comments on the show here.

Entirely predictable and avoidable if the TOCs had a clue.

But ATOC just issue press releases saying how wonderful and rosy things are. "The railways are attracting record numbers of passengers", erm, so are the roads, idiots! :roll: "According to Passenger Focus, the independent watchdog, more passengers than ever are happy with their journey", in reality Passenger Focus are not really independent, and the average advisor wouldn't have anywhere near the knowledge displayed on this forum (I know, I tried calling them once, you're better off talking to a brick wall), so I don't trust their survey.

ATOC's lies under the 'Fares' heading of their press release are laughable and way off the mark. This will fool no-one.

 

[transportphoto]

Right at the very end he phoned EMT as said he got a PF when towards the begining of the show he filmed a UPFN... a very interesting programme none the less (albeit heavily bias)

 

[northwichcat]

Of course not, but the fact that another organisation is as draconian as a TOC don't make either of them right. Some means of separating the genuine mistakes from the cheats wouldn't really be that hard, as I suggested upthread. God knows, if the Police can manage it, a TOC can if it could be bothered. It does however make the world much simpler if you assume everyone is continually on the fiddle. That doesn't necessarily make the world a pleasant place though.

Easy solution.

Rail staff take a photo of the passenger when they produce the unpaid fares notice to a passenger who has forgotten their railcard. They then produce the actual railcard to get it overturned. If they refuse to have their photo taken or don't prove that they had a valid railcard they have to pay.

 

[142094]

Theresa Villiers did not impress me at all. Not everyone hates Pacers.

Naturally the show was one sided, bit like some of the ones on You Tube produced in the last few years of British Rail. Passenger Focus come across as a bit of a lame duck.

 

[jon0844]

I can't believe that they showed a video of someone who had found an old, disused, toilet and suggested it was a public toilet that wasn't looked after. Sure, they DID point that out after checking with the TOC - but why show it at all? Does that mean that they still struggled to find stuff that was OTT and sensationalised and needed to pad it out?

The attempt to book tickets over the phone in a public space, no doubt with wind and other background noise.. which was silly as he didn't even speak properly to it a lot of the time (like saying JUST the name). Any voice input system will struggle, just like using voice control/dialling on your mobile phone. But, who - in an age of the Internet, email and smartphones with apps - calls up to book tickets? Some, maybe, but very few.

Most of thing things shown were justified, but there was no balance. No real effort to explain that TOCs can't just make new rolling stock appear (or even use the rolling stock they'd like to). Some poor attempts where people probably DID explain to the producers, but were ignored as it changed what they were trying to achieve.

In fact, I'm fairly certain that they were given a lot more information by the people they interviewed and opted to ignore it.

Okay, so it was about journeys from hell - but what a load of missed opportunities.

 

[northwichcat]

I think he showed exactly why Northern were named rail operator of the year - for punctual trains and attracting more passengers. The fact remains that the trains are old, frequently have faults with them and the attracting more passengers means more overcrowding.

 

[142094]

Also good to see rent-a-quote Christian Wolmar adding in his two cents. Don't think he is ever off the TV or radio.

 

[Fincra5]

Probabaly experienced one of these journeys today, whilst working it, but then again a lot of signals in the Southern region did fail - specifically Salfords

>> Watching this program on C4+1. People don't realise that the capacity is basically scretched as far as it can go. In peak hours in the london area there seems to be a train every signal section or so, making it difficult to run MORE trains :/

 

[CosherB]

What's a UPFN?

Here's what I think would be reasonable if someone forgets their Senior Railcard:

They get charged the upgrade to what their ticket would have cost without the railcard, and issued a 'voucher' to confirm this.

Within one month, they can go to any station booking office with the voucher and their railcard (which must, of course have been valid at the time the journey took place). Ticket clerk refunds the 'excess' fare the passenger was charged on the train.

This is reasonable because the passenger did in fact have a railcard, and not producing it is not the same thing as trying to travel on a senior ticket when you have not purchased a railcard.

The inconvenience to the passenger in having to pay the excess then claim it back will prevent people deliberately not bothering to carry their railcard with them.

 

[WestCoast]

What's a UPFN?

Unpaid Fare Notice.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Doesn't sound too good about Mc Nulty, why oh why does nobody realise that nationalisation is the solution? Yes, British Rail had their complaints too (possiblly as many as now), but if they had not been disbanded and still been given the subsidy the network has recived under privitisation things would be a bit better, and maybe a lot better.

There was also no mention of where a particular large chunk of our money goes, the ROSCOs. The existance of the ROSCOs drives me mad with anger, if TOCs didn't have to pay those leasing fees we'd be on the way to getting the cost savings of nationalisation, while retaining any benifits we get from having private companies running the trains (not that I think any exist).

I agree with Captain Speaking on railcards. If you don't have yours the guard should charge the difference, but allow passengers to bring their railcard to a station to prove they had one and get the difference refunded.

 

[Minilad]

The thing that winds me up about these types of programmes is that a lot of untruths or misleading comments can be made which the general viewer will take as gospel.
Apparently there is a secret timetable that allows the TOCs to run trains late and still be on time. It's called a Working Timetable. I literally burst out laughing at that, but I bet a normal punter would be saying "oooh thats terrible, how do they get away with it"
I would love to know if the 1640 from Leeds to Kings Cross really did arrive 9 mins late when they filmed.
OK so you have told us all about how horrible and nasty and expensive and confusing the Railways are. Any chance you might want to tell us how to improve them. No thought not. Just much easier to stand on a peak time train into London and be shocked and appalled that it's full
What a load of Rubbish

 

[Fincra5]

Comparing the price of a train ticket on the day to that of a Flight which you wouldn't pay for on the day.....

 

[CliveJones]

Comparing the price of a train ticket on the day to that of a Flight which you wouldn't pay for on the day.....

Thats a favorite of the press. Or comparing first class travel to bargain class plane trips.

Im watching on C4+1. Pile of crap so far.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Also good to see rent-a-quote Christian Wolmar adding in his two cents. Don't think he is ever off the TV or radio.

Quite like Mr Wolmar. Despite being rent-a-quote, he does have some interesting points and way of coveying of the mess of rail privatisation in a way that a passer by understands.

Crowding will always be a problem and on our roads and our railways. No matter how many roads you build or rolling stock you order. Been to Japan several times and introduced to new levels of crowdedness.

But the programme did explore two key issues specific to UK railways:
the sometimes expensive and byzantine fare structure
the cost to both taxpayer and rail user of running the network

 

[yorksrob]

Currently watching this now on 4 + 1.

Have to say that it doesn't chime with my daily commute which is relatively comfortable and decent value (Northern Rail and WYPTE doing a good job ) so it is perhaps a bit of a hatchet job for my taste.

It is addressing some of the "elephants in the room" such as the fact that some fares are too expensive and complicated.

Nice to see hoary old ghouls from the past like Steven Norris still spouting B******s.

 

[Birdbrain]

Why did he only look at the 1st anytime return to Kyle? not the standard off peak!

Watching on +1

 

[Anon Mouse]

There was an advert for it with him phoning a "helpline" asking for a train from Manchester Victoria to Harrogate. If you're going to let the details be that sloppy on the short clip (anyone heading towards Harrogate would surely use Piccadilly), then I'm not expecting great things. Would like to be wrong, of course...

To be fair how would a visitor to Manchester know which station would be best to depart from? As there is a frequent service from Victoria to Leeds I think its a reasonable request.

For an experiment I called NRES and pressed the option for Traintracker. Its useless if you have an accent. I tried asking the simple request of Newcastle to Sunderland, it thought Newcastle was Chingford!:roll:
My Wife however, made same call and got the required information and she is Chinese.........

 

[142094]

Why did he even look at it to Kyle? I bet in one year there cannot be more than 5 people doing that particular journey first class.

 

[Birdbrain]

And here comes the pacer insults....

 

[CliveJones]

Why did he only look at the 1st anytime return to Kyle? not the standard off peak!

Watching on +1

Because that doesn't fit with their story.

 

[Ivo]

Why did he even look at it to Kyle? I bet in one year there cannot be more than 5 people doing that particular journey first class.

Something to do with that old Newquay fare perhaps? A deliberately unreasonable choice that is known to some as over-expensive and awkward to follow/understand for everyone else.

 

[yorksrob]

Glad someone's just been making the point warning against cuts to the Regional Railway network. This is something which worries me greatly.

 

[142094]

Something to do with that old Newquay fare perhaps? A deliberately unreasonable choice that is known to some as over-expensive and awkward to follow/understand for everyone else.

Just sensationalism to me. I'm sure I could find a plane ticket costing far in excess of this and I bet no-one would bat an eyelid.

 

[Fincra5]

This whole progam has picked the worst journies.

That "analyist" doesn't seem to know fully what they are talking about, a train is late if it is late at a station, not just at its final destination.

 

[shinkansen1966]

I'm sure I could find a plane ticket costing far in excess of this and I bet no-one would bat an eyelid.

Easily.

It's just our railways receive up front cash subsidy of £5 billion pa and still charge some ludicrous fares.

 

[SS4]

I didn't watch purely because I knew that it would make me angry. Dispatches has long been known for sensationalism. The only problem is that very few people can see it as such. They think it's as true as Monday follows Sunday.

We could pick apart every single point in that show but the question is who else would? The media and society have acted with very efficient cunning to tar trainspotters and generally anyone who knows about the railway here in the UK to be socially inept and/or someone to be ridiculed which reinforces these programs' message. Peak time trains are overcrowded but what did you expect with urbanisation and high population density as well as a service based economy?

It's very easy to show a problem, much harder to find a solution

This whole progam has picked the worst journies.

Not at all surprised. It's hardly going to choose Chester Road to Birmingham New Street which is every ten minutes during the day and arrives on tmie

 

[shinkansen1966]

'Theresa Villiers,
Trains Minister'

Oh dear. Compelling though.

I know. That made me laugh, too.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, it's definately not as bad as they make out. I think the fact that it was billed as "Train Journeys From Hell" rather sets itself up to be a bit unfair on the railway. That said, some of the issues raised do need to be addressed. And it's good that they looked at a wide range of locations around the network.