Refund in vouchers from east coast

[junglejames]

You can be corrected! There was a well publicised promotion from GC of £25 returns from West Yorkshire stations at weekends.

In which case i am eating a very large slice of humble pie right now! I apologise for making the OP out to be a liar!

 

[David Dunning]

I always travel with Grand Central on the understanding that they will pay for me to go on EC If their service is cancelled . I ask them every time i travel if thats the case.
So you should get a refund from them . If you dont hear from them prvt message me on here i have another idea .

 

[scotsman]

No GC reps anywhere. We were left stranded. East coast said our GC tickets were not valid and we had to buy more tickets.

Relic of the days of National Express according to RAIL[ editor Nigel Harris, staff had reportedly told pax that their open access operator had gone bust and they needed new tickets - where they sold NX only tickets.

 

[Greenback]

This is a sad tale that doesn't show the railway system in a very good light.

The point of promotional fares is surely to entice people on to a company's trains in the hope that they will be come regular customers. To then cancle the train home and apparently make no effort to help the passengers is hardly going to help them gain any repeat business.

If the customer spends an extra, rather large amount of meny to ge tthemselves home, then it is pretty much a certainty that they will never want to use trains again!

I accept that we don't know the details of the story, but it is an absolutely appalling way to treat travellers. Whoever is at fault tickets should have been accepted on alternative services.

I would write to the Customer Service Manager in the first instance, following that if necessary by contacting Passenger Focus. needless to say, keep copies of every letter sent!

 

[SouthStand]

Thanks for reply. looks like there are £180. worth of vouchers . which I am never going to use. £180 I am going to have to find, to pay my credit card bill.

I'd be happy to relieve you of the offending vouchers free of charge

 

[Tom B]

I accept that we don't know the details of the story, but it is an absolutely appalling way to treat travellers. Whoever is at fault tickets should have been accepted on alternative services.

Quite - surely East Coast should be accepting tickets if there's a problem by default, and sorting it out between themselves and GC? It is not the fault of the passenger that GC failed to authorise the tickets on another service or whatever.

 

[Greenback]

Exactly. Although we don;t know whether travel was authorised and the message didn;t get through to staff for some reason, or whether GC simply didn;t agree to pay EC! Regardelss of the ins and outs, there is no way that the customer should be out of pocket at all!

It's worth bearing in mind that the vouchers are compensation for the delay on EC, which is a seperate matter to whether they should have had to pay for new tickets in the first place. GC should give them the £180 back, by way of a card credit.

 

[bluenoxid]

I think East Coast has not even realised their cock up. My advice would be to make clear what happened to Grand Central and East Coast again, Grand Central in particularly. Grand Central has failed to deliver a service and they should be providing you with compensation on both counts.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

GC always provide staff at stations in times of disruption, and as it happened I was on the 18.20 Northbound to Sunderland that day, plenty of staff were around - and there were two there regarding the Bradford services providing alternate transport.

Despite that, GC staff were around Kings Cross at that time as the terminating service FROM Sunderland arrives 17:24. There are usually a number of staff around these trains between these times.

Are you sure there were no staff at this time - or did you not notice them?

EDIT: Also checked National Rail Enquiries. 'No refunds and no exchanges will be permitted once this ticket has been purchased' - Im afraid you bought the ticket under those conditions.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/promotions/pr8b9ff797c6433397e49eb3c2a547df/details.html

 

[MCR247]

EDIT: Also checked National Rail Enquiries. 'No refunds and no exchanges will be permitted once this ticket has been purchased' - Im afraid you bought the ticket under those conditions.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/promotions/pr8b9ff797c6433397e49eb3c2a547df/details.html

:roll:

Is just about all I can say about this post

 

[Mojo]

EDIT: Also checked National Rail Enquiries. 'No refunds and no exchanges will be permitted once this ticket has been purchased' - Im afraid you bought the ticket under those conditions.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/promotions/pr8b9ff797c6433397e49eb3c2a547df/details.html

This is completely incorrect advice.

If the Toc has failed to deliver their obligations as set out in the Conditions of Carriage and by other applicable laws then the passenger is entitled to a refund of their ticket or to be provided with reasonable alternative means of reaching their destination. If, in addition, the delay is above certain limits then the Toc is also required to pay a minimum level of compensation, as set out in the Conditions of Carriage and also in the individual company's passenger charter.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, it is completely incorrect and irrelevant. Unless you assume that such a condition allows a company to abandon its customers compeltely and walk away from their responsibilities.

As to there being two staff around, this may well be true. But they can easily not be noticed at a busy station when things are going wrong. Were there any annoucnements, or any information on the screens to tell GC passengers what to do or where to go for assistance?

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Yes, it is completely incorrect and irrelevant. Unless you assume that such a condition allows a company to abandon its customers compeltely and walk away from their responsibilities.

As to there being two staff around, this may well be true. But they can easily not be noticed at a busy station when things are going wrong. Were there any annoucnements, or any information on the screens to tell GC passengers what to do or where to go for assistance?

Apologies for the incorrect information, just what I read on the National Rail Enquiries.

And of what I understand, the board said Cancelled - seek staff assistance. The staff were busy with passengers, so i would assume some kind of announcement may have been made - but I arrived just before my train was due to depart so had no time to stop and check really.

 

[91101]

Here's an idea, why dont you offer the vouchers for sale on here for say £130 - okay so you end up £50 down on the deal, but its better than the vouchers sat in a drawer for 12 months and you being £180 down?

 

[calderline]

Telephoned GC today and they said that they cant compensate us for the £180. They said that a revised timetable was in operation, we were not told this and a few hundred other people were not aware of this .We would not have travelled down to London if there was no way of getting back to yorkshire. They said that they revised the timetable on the day which we travelled ?

 

[transportphoto]

Here's an idea, why dont you offer the vouchers for sale on here for say £130 - okay so you end up £50 down on the deal, but its better than the vouchers sat in a drawer for 12 months and you being £180 down?

That would be encouraging an 'illegal' activity - the vouchers state they are non-transferable, that is that

 

[silentone]

If there was disruption of some sort then usually they revert to a revised (although not really in printed form) timetable. GC should have made its passengers aware who were booked onto the cancelled service where they should go.

Arriving just before your train departs is never advisable, GC staff would have been somewhere around Kings Cross (EC staff would probably have had little information about what you should do, unless they had been instructed to direct you to an EC service)

 

[Mr Spock]

Telephoned GC today and they said that they cant compensate us for the £180. They said that a revised timetable was in operation, we were not told this and a few hundred other people were not aware of this .We would not have travelled down to London if there was no way of getting back to yorkshire. They said that they revised the timetable on the day which we travelled ?

As you have received £180 of vouchers from East Coast why should you also get a refund of this amount from GC?

 

[Greenback]

Caderline, do not telephone. Put it in writing, then you have a copy of whateve ryou sent and thier response. Also, you are likely to speak to a low level member of staff on the phone, and are unlikely to be able to deal with anyoen who is not just using a script.

What you need to do, is to write to someone senior within the organisation. You need to point out that your day out was ruined due to the diffculties you encountered getting home, and that there was no way of you knowing that the train had been cancelled or that a revised timetable had been brought in.

I will happily proof read any letter you wish to send. I used to work as a complaints manager, though not on the railway!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As you have received £180 of vouchers from East Coast why should you also get a refund of this amount from GC?

The vouchers are compensation for the late running EC service. The OP should not have had to pay for new tickets in the first place. GC should have got them home.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If there was disruption of some sort then usually they revert to a revised (although not really in printed form) timetable. GC should have made its passengers aware who were booked onto the cancelled service where they should go.

Arriving just before your train departs is never advisable, GC staff would have been somewhere around Kings Cross (EC staff would probably have had little information about what you should do, unless they had been instructed to direct you to an EC service)

How early do you advise arriving at a station before your train is due to depart? Half an hour? An hour?

I don't think it's fair to try and say the passengers arrived too late for their train! They (GC) failed to provide the service, and now they seem to be trying to hide behind the small print.

If this is the way that GC treats its customers, maybe they deserve to go out of business?

 

[calderline]

Thank you for your help greenback. We did send GC a letter on 15th feb, when we telephoned them, they said that they have no record of the letter . I am going to send another letter tomorrow, maybe you could give me an outline of what to say in it. Thank you

 

[Greenback]

Thank you for your help greenback. We did send GC a letter on 15th feb, when we telephoned them, they said that they have no record of the letter . I am going to send another letter tomorrow, maybe you could give me an outline of what to say in it. Thank you

I have sent you a PM!

 

[Yorkswatcher]

Ok so you were booked on GC but they cancelled so you caught an EC but were made to buy a ticket. I've never known this to be the case. No matter what service I have been on at KC I have always got on the next train with my ticket for another company.

Then the EC was delayed for 2 hours so you get a full refund.

So really you should get a refund for your GC tickets from GC and a refund from EC for your EC tickets. As the EC tickets are now classes as being separate journey from the GC.

I would phone EC about the £180 as you wont get this from GC.

the only other way is to pass on your vouchers to someone on here for a gift of £180 if they refuse to move on the vouchers.

 

[Mr Spock]

The vouchers are compensation for the late running EC service. The OP should not have had to pay for new tickets in the first place. GC should have got them home.

I agree that GC should have got them home but as compensation (vouchers for the £180 new tickets) has been paid by EC I still not see why the OP is entitled to get the money back again?

As far as I can see all that he should be entitled to is the cost of the GC ticket.

 

[googolplex]

I've just had a thought, if the OP needs the cash, could they buy a ticket for as close to £180 as possible (such as an SOS KYL-KGX at £179.50) with the vouchers and then request a refund in cash, paying the £10 admin fee?
I know the payment type would show on the ticket as a warrant/rail travel voucher, but would the refund department be able to identify what proportion of the ticket was vouchers and what was cash?

 

[Greenback]

I agree that GC should have got them home but as compensation (vouchers for the £180 new tickets) has been paid by EC I still not see why the OP is entitled to get the money back again?

As far as I can see all that he should be entitled to is the cost of the GC ticket.

This situation should never have arisen in my opinion. The original tickets should have been accepted by EC. The OP would probably have been satisfied just getting home at all, given the disruption, without having to shell out a lot of money for the privilege.

Are you saying that if, for instance, someone is mistakenly told their tickets aren't valid, are then sold a new lot on board, and that tran is delayed, that they should either get the refund for the missold tickets, or the compensation for the delay, but not both?

 

[Mr Spock]

This situation should never have arisen in my opinion. The original tickets should have been accepted by EC. The OP would probably have been satisfied just getting home at all, given the disruption, without having to shell out a lot of money for the privilege.

Are you saying that if, for instance, someone is mistakenly told their tickets aren't valid, are then sold a new lot on board, and that tran is delayed, that they should either get the refund for the missold tickets, or the compensation for the delay, but not both?

I agree that the situation appears to have been handled badly by GC but unless they made an arrangement with EC the original tickets were not valid on the EC service so new tickets were bought for that train.

As I see it - cost of new tickets for EC train was £180, refund (in vouchers) for delayed EC train was £180 so actual cost is zero for the EC train so no further refund is due. You should not be entitled to get the £180 back twice.

GC train did not run and therefore the tickets for that train should be refunded.

 

[transportphoto]

As a conclusion, the OP travel back from London using and East Coast operated service after the train which her ticket in her possession was valid on (GC) was cancelled.

The OP was informed (either correctly or incorrectly) that her ticket was not valid on EC even after the disruption... she then chose to buy new tickets at ~£90 each to travel via EC. The EC service was delayed and this entitled the OP to claim compensation under the passenger charter and the NRCoC. This she done and received £180 in Rail Travel Vouchers.

It has been said that members feel that the £180 was incorrectly charged in the first place, this is a piece of information which is going to be hard to get confirmed and therefore the OP (rightly or wrongly) wishes for a cash refund for the excess expenditure. She is happy to send back the RTV's for this

Members feel that the price of the original GC tickets should also be reimbursed by GC due to the cancellation of their service causing the subsequent delay.

The OP has no use for the £180 in RTV's she has currently but unfortunately they are non-transferable between people.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, as I said the OP's prime concern was getting home.

I do think that it very unfortunate that passengers have to suffer in this way. A person, unfamiliar with the way the rail system works, is hardly going to question any advice they are given in these sorts of circumstances. The fact that one company may or may not have arranged to accept another company's tickets is not something that a customer should have to ge tinvovled in. The information on what customers need to do should be clear, available to all by a number of media, and correct.

I am sure that GC did not intend to elave their customers stranded in London with no means of getting home. Maybe they did have representatvies on hadn, but they were missed by the OP. One thing I ake issue is the use of the word 'chos', as in the Op chose to buy tickets to ge thome. I am sure that in their eyes, the OP had no choice, it wa seithe rpay for the enw tickets or be stuck! And that's not much of a choice!

 

[ApAp]

At one time in their past GNER would pay compensation for serious delays by cheque if the amount owed was above a certain value. Which for many would have been good customer service (something GNER seemed to take pride in). This certainly would have made the OP happier.

At the time I always bought flexible tickets so was happy to get vouchers to buy my tickets on the day, rather than a cheque which meant a diversion and another queue at the bank. So after receiving a cheque once I then wrote on future compensation requests that I'd be happier paid in vouchers.

Now these days with flexible ticket prices going through the roof and the improved online booking engine I'd ultimately prefer the paper vouchers were replaced with e-vouchers that could be used online for advance ticket purchases.

Did GNER stop the compensation by cheque eventually or was it scrapped later on?

 

[island]

I've just had a thought, if the OP needs the cash, could they buy a ticket for as close to £180 as possible (such as an SOS KYL-KGX at £179.50) with the vouchers and then request a refund in cash, paying the £10 admin fee?
I know the payment type would show on the ticket as a warrant/rail travel voucher, but would the refund department be able to identify what proportion of the ticket was vouchers and what was cash?

If the ticket shows price £179.50W, then I suspect the refund department will go and look up the transaction and issue £170 in vouchers back. They presumably have to be able to do this because if you are requesting a refund against tickets issued for a Rail Travel Warrant, they say they will credit the warrant account.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Now these days with flexible ticket prices going through the roof and the improved online booking engine I'd ultimately prefer the paper vouchers were replaced with e-vouchers that could be used online for advance ticket purchases.

You can use paper vouchers to book advance tickets at a station if you want, although I recommend not going up to the desk during peak because you'll wind up the other passengers