Architecture The Railways Built - Series 4 for 2023

[Ken H]

The whole series is on UKTV play to stream for free. No TV licence needed.

 

[timmydunn]

I never thought of Coventry station as being iconic albeit I can understand why, after watching the programme, it would now be classed as such.

You have no idea how delighted I am to read your comment, LP. There are several reasons why I took the idea of a programme about railway buildings to a production company - and one of them was to help people better understand the world immediately around us, and perhaps enjoy things that they hadn’t been shown how to enjoy before. I was very lucky as a kid - I have a chartered surveyor father who showed me that there was something interesting, or something to be loved by everybody, in almost* every building. Even the modernist ones, for there are silly battle lines drawn between styles by people who should know better.

As a 13 year old I went to the Barbican. Ugh, hated it. Back at home I was sat down with the 1949 County of London Plan, and everthing that the Buckinghamshire County Library Librarian could accumulate for me. And then I *got* it.

The nice thing about TATRB is that we get the very best of people (a bit like the librarians I once had) - experts often with a deep, wholesome love of a building - to tell us its story or why it is worthy of love. So when someone says that TATRB has changed their opinion of building - it makes my day. I benefitted from generous knowledge-givers as a kid, and I like to think of TATRB doing the same for hundreds of thousands of other people today.


Btw the Goole Swing Bridge bit this week is . Part signal box, part lighthouse, part windmill, part ship: and seeing the ace local area manager from Network Rail operate it -her favourite thing on her patch - is just smashing telly.

 

[Mikey C]

You have no idea how delighted I am to read your comment, LP. There are several reasons why I took the idea of a programme about railway buildings to a production company - and one of them was to help people better understand the world immediately around us, and perhaps enjoy things that they hadn’t been shown how to enjoy before. I was very lucky as a kid - I have a chartered surveyor father who showed me that there was something interesting, or something to be loved by everybody, in almost* every building. Even the modernist ones, for there are silly battle lines drawn between styles by people who should know better.

As a 13 year old I went to the Barbican. Ugh, hated it. Back at home I was sat down with the 1949 County of London Plan, and everthing that the Buckinghamshire County Library Librarian could accumulate for me. And then I *got* it.

The nice thing about TATRB is that we get the very best of people (a bit like the librarians I once had) - experts often with a deep, wholesome love of a building - to tell us its story or why it is worthy of love. So when someone says that TATRB has changed their opinion of building - it makes my day. I benefitted from generous knowledge-givers as a kid, and I like to think of TATRB doing the same for hundreds of thousands of other people today.


Btw the Goole Swing Bridge bit this week is . Part signal box, part lighthouse, part windmill, part ship: and seeing the ace local area manager from Network Rail operate it -her favourite thing on her patch - is just smashing telly.

One of the (many) things which is good about this series is that it DOESN'T just salivate over Victorian rail structures, but celebrates good engineering and architecture from the entire history of the railway.

 

[geoffk]

One of the (many) things which is good about this series is that it DOESN'T just salivate over Victorian rail structures, but celebrates good engineering and architecture from the entire history of the railway.

Yes I agree that's a good feature of Tim's series. Even Birmingham New St signalbox was made interesting - as it's listed a new use will have to be found for it. I see he's in Devon next.

 

[Lost property]

The nice thing about TATRB is that we get the very best of people (a bit like the librarians I once had) - experts often with a deep, wholesome love of a building - to tell us its story or why it is worthy of love. So when someone says that TATRB has changed their opinion of building - it makes my day. I benefitted from generous knowledge-givers as a kid, and I like to think of TATRB doing the same for hundreds of thousands of other people today.


Btw the Goole Swing Bridge bit this week is . Part signal box, part lighthouse, part windmill, part ship: and seeing the ace local area manager from Network Rail operate it -her favourite thing on her patch - is just smashing telly.

Thank you. I will return the compliment by saying another enjoyable aspect is the one above...you let people with knowledge do the talking to support the subject. All too often, presenters try and impose themselves on documentaries and make themselves prominent.

Your enthusiasm is obvious, but, as I say, you don't try and become the subject.

The Goole Bridge was fascinating !....and if I had that lady's job I would share her enthusiasm.

Alas, I can't get overly enthused about a certain set of level crossings in Lincoln...sorry, but, from my time spent around Lincoln, those crossings bring back memories of Lincoln....with "delayed " being the most prominent. That said, I have a feeling I may have used Lincoln St Marks in the 70's.

 

[simonw]

You have no idea how delighted I am to read your comment, LP. There are several reasons why I took the idea of a programme about railway buildings to a production company - and one of them was to help people better understand the world immediately around us, and perhaps enjoy things that they hadn’t been shown how to enjoy before. I was very lucky as a kid - I have a chartered surveyor father who showed me that there was something interesting, or something to be loved by everybody, in almost* every building. Even the modernist ones, for there are silly battle lines drawn between styles by people who should know better.

As a 13 year old I went to the Barbican. Ugh, hated it. Back at home I was sat down with the 1949 County of London Plan, and everthing that the Buckinghamshire County Library Librarian could accumulate for me. And then I *got* it.

The nice thing about TATRB is that we get the very best of people (a bit like the librarians I once had) - experts often with a deep, wholesome love of a building - to tell us its story or why it is worthy of love. So when someone says that TATRB has changed their opinion of building - it makes my day. I benefitted from generous knowledge-givers as a kid, and I like to think of TATRB doing the same for hundreds of thousands of other people today.


Btw the Goole Swing Bridge bit this week is . Part signal box, part lighthouse, part windmill, part ship: and seeing the ace local area manager from Network Rail operate it -her favourite thing on her patch - is just smashing telly.

Found the swing bridge very interesting (noted the operator didn't use a cloth on the levers). I assume there is an instrument to the signal box on each side of the bridge?

What is in place to ensure the signals both sides are at danger before the bridge is moved?

 

[geoffk]

A reason to visit Goole then. While watching this episode I wondered how many other rail bridges were required to open for river or canal traffic. Selby, Keadby and Trowse come to mind.

 

[davews]

I found the Lincoln episode quite interesting. During the 1960/70s I made many trips from St Marks but by the time it closed in the 1980s I had found travelling from Market Rasen more convenient so hardly used Lincoln Central. Knew the level crossings as a kid much earlier in the 1950s on shopping trips but in those days was far more familiar with the steam and early diesels from Goxhill (and the Humber ferry). Oh happy days...

 

[yorksrob]

Love the series, found the section on Lincoln particularly interesting

 

[32475]

I came across this BR publication from 1977 which accompanied an exhibition by the Chief Architects Department. The booklet entitled ‘A glance back and a look forward’ covers the Victorian buildings which BR inherited followed by examples of railway buildings of the 1960s, some new buildings, recent non-operational buildings and recent property board developments.
Looking at the selected photos, the 1960s buildings with Coventry Station amongst them have so much more finesse than those of the following decade which were pretty soulless by comparison. We mustn’t overlook the fact that many of the 1960s projects had very high budgets and as we learned with the Coventry episode of TATRB, the budget appeared to be limitless.

 

[Mikey C]

Yes I agree that's a good feature of Tim's series. Even Birmingham New St signalbox was made interesting - as it's listed a new use will have to be found for it. I see he's in Devon next.

The inside of that signal box was extraordinary too, and as a historical artefact to me far more fascinating that the "traditional" manual signal boxes. Amazing that 1960s technology can still be working perfectly well at one of the business stations in the country.

 

[yorksrob]

The inside of that signal box was extraordinary too, and as a historical artefact to me far more fascinating that the "traditional" manual signal boxes. Amazing that 1960s technology can still be working perfectly well at one of the business stations in the country.

It is amazing that it's lasted that long.

Apparently they had to film the signallers in the old Leeds signal box (prior to the 2001 remodelling) because the 1960's panels had a habit of malfunctioning and they had to tell that it was the panel, not the signalman that had malfunctioned.

 

[3RDGEN]

Historically Goole Bridge had sand drags on the approaches so you would be stopped at the last signal when it swung, eastbound this meant you could see the bridge swing the ship(s) go through and the bridge close again so you had an idea when you would be on the move. The sand drags were removed once TPWS was introduced and I think you now get stopped two signals back, as mentioned in the program the bridge now opens very infrequently and I can't remember when I was last stopped by it.

 

[edwin_m]

It is amazing that it's lasted that long.

It was the last of the 1960s West Midlands power signalling schemes to be replaced. This was at least partly because the station wouldn't be workable if current standards on overlaps were applied, so it had to have a derogation.

I can't remember when I was last stopped by it.

I suspect ships are only allowed to pass at a time when no trains are scheduled.

 

[yorksrob]

It was the last of the 1960s West Midlands power signalling schemes to be replaced. This was at least partly because the station wouldn't be workable if current standards on overlaps were applied, so it had to have a derogation.

I suspect ships are only allowed to pass at a time when no trains are scheduled.

Cheers, that's interesting background info.

From the programme (and what I've read in the railway press) I haven't seen that there have been a lot of reliability problems, which is good for an installation that age.

 

[simonw]

It was the last of the 1960s West Midlands power signalling schemes to be replaced. This was at least partly because the station wouldn't be workable if current standards on overlaps were applied, so it had to have a derogation.

I suspect ships are only allowed to pass at a time when no trains are scheduled.

Tim asserted that was a train every fifteen minutes, if memory serves. I would doubt the bridge can be open, ship pass and bridge close in that time.

I know in Bristol docks some of the bridges had signals for shipping, is there something similar used at Goole or other swing bridges?

 

[simonw]

I came across this BR publication from 1977 which accompanied an exhibition by the Chief Architects Department. The booklet entitled ‘A glance back and a look forward’ covers the Victorian buildings which BR inherited followed by examples of railway buildings of the 1960s, some new buildings, recent non-operational buildings and recent property board developments.
Looking at the selected photos, the 1960s buildings with Coventry Station amongst them have so much more finesse than those of the following decade which were pretty soulless by comparison. We mustn’t overlook the fact that many of the 1960s projects had very high budgets and as we learned with the Coventry episode of TATRB, the budget appeared to be limitless.
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A lot of post war architecture was pretty poor (like most eras of we are honest) but there is also plenty that deserves to be kept i f we are not to make the same mistakes as other generations and demolish the good as well as the bad.

 

[edwin_m]

Tim asserted that was a train every fifteen minutes, if memory serves. I would doubt the bridge can be open, ship pass and bridge close in that time.

I know in Bristol docks some of the bridges had signals for shipping, is there so!edging similar used at Goole or other swing bridges?

I was involved in a project a couple of years back that involved understanding how a (non-NR) swing bridge was operated. For navigational reasons it wasn't possible for the ship to stop and wait on seeing a signal, so the operator would speak to the pilot by radio and confirm the bridge was ready to open before the ship passed the last safe anchorage when approaching from downstream, or left the nearby quayside when approaching from upstream. I don't recall the opening time but a 15min cycle sounds possible if the ship arrives at exactly the right time.

 

[Ken H]

Tim asserted that was a train every fifteen minutes, if memory serves. I would doubt the bridge can be open, ship pass and bridge close in that time.

I know in Bristol docks some of the bridges had signals for shipping, is there something similar used at Goole or other swing bridges?

There were semaphores at the entrances to dock at Cardiff Bay, I think. And maybe where you went from the tidal Avon into the floating harbour at Bristol. But colour lights are common at locks operated by a lock-keeper. Certainly some at Diglis near Worcester on the Severn.

 

[Mikey C]

A lot of post war architecture was pretty poor (like most eras of we are honest) but there is also plenty that deserves to be kept i f we are not to make the same mistakes as other generations and demolish the good as well as the bad.

To me the signal box is hideous, but it's a good example of hideous brutalism so I'm glad it's listed

Finding another use for it though is important, as otherwise it will just sit there and rot.

 

[3RDGEN]

It was the last of the 1960s West Midlands power signalling schemes to be replaced. This was at least partly because the station wouldn't be workable if current standards on overlaps were applied, so it had to have a derogation.

I suspect ships are only allowed to pass at a time when no trains are scheduled.

The ships have "right of way" and could arrive whenever the tide suited them, maritime law applies since the railway decided to build across the river. There's a dock north of the bridge at Howden Dyke and it wasn't unusual to have two ships through at once years ago.

In the program it was mentioned the bridge only swings three times a week so it's unlikely to affect trains now. There are four passenger trains an hour which is were the 15 minute comment came from I guess but two of them pass close or even on the bridge so there is a 30 min gap each hour. Goole Bridge is relatively quick to swing, quicker than Selby.

 

[Lost property]

Historically Goole Bridge had sand drags on the approaches so you would be stopped at the last signal when it swung, eastbound this meant you could see the bridge swing the ship(s) go through and the bridge close again so you had an idea when you would be on the move. The sand drags were removed once TPWS was introduced and I think you now get stopped two signals back, as mentioned in the program the bridge now opens very infrequently and I can't remember when I was last stopped by it.

What is a sand drag please ?

The name suggests the obvious, but, this may not be the case. And how would it be activated ?

I actually think working on the bridge in that box would be a very enjoyable way to be paid for so doing.

 

[John Webb]

What is a sand drag please ?

The name suggests the obvious, but, this may not be the case. And how would it be activated ?

A sand-drag is a further accessory to a 'trap point' - the latter diverts a train onto a stretch of line where it can be stopped; the sand-drag is constructed by building a box around the rails and filling them with sand. The wheels of a train diverted into the sand-drag meet extra resistance from the sand dragging on the wheels so slowing them down, hence the name.
There's a view here from Goathland showing a trap-point and sand-drag at the top of the 1 in 49 climb from Grosmont (Click on photo to go to the larger original on the Geograph website.)
Railway running north from Goathland Station

© Copyright JThomas and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
Normally the points are set for straight running, so a train on the left-hand track which starts running away goes into the sand drag which is terminated by a large earth mound, rather than the usual buffer stops.
In the case of Goole swing-bridge the sand-drag would have been parallel to the running lines but off-set by a foot or two.

 

[Lost property]

A sand-drag is a further accessory to a 'trap point' - the latter diverts a train onto a stretch of line where it can be stopped; the sand-drag is constructed by building a box around the rails and filling them with sand. The wheels of a train diverted into the sand-drag meet extra resistance from the sand dragging on the wheels so slowing them down, hence the name.
There's a view here from Goathland showing a trap-point and sand-drag at the top of the 1 in 49 climb from Grosmont (Click on photo to go to the larger original on the Geograph website.)
Railway running north from Goathland Station

© Copyright JThomas and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
Normally the points are set for straight running, so a train on the left-hand track which starts running away goes into the sand drag which is terminated by a large earth mound, rather than the usual buffer stops.
In the case of Goole swing-bridge the sand-drag would have been parallel to the running lines but off-set by a foot or two.

Thank you for the reply and explanation. I am familiar with "trap points " but had never heard of a sand drag....until now.

 

[edwin_m]

Thank you for the reply and explanation. I am familiar with "trap points " but had never heard of a sand drag....until now.

Sometimes also seen at buffer stops.

 

[davews]

I think last night's episode (Hull and Leamington Spa) was the last in the current series? Whatever, a great watch again.

This one certainly brought back childhood memories. When I was a toddler we made more or less weekly trips to Hull from Goxhill - steam train Goxhill to New Holland and the ferry to Hull. Next door neighbour worked on the ferries and when he was on duty we were allowed access below decks and I remember as a four year (and possibly younger) old budding engineer fascinated to watch the turbines over the railings down there! Would be a strict no no with today's health and safety. Less exciting when were sat on a sandbank waiting for the tide to come in of course. The photos of the New Holland and Hull ferry piers could have been taken yesterday as far as I was concerned, the mind is incredible at recalling things from the dim and distant past. I think Tim is a bit young to remember the Humber ferry in its prime time, those were the days. One of them now parked on the Thames in London which always brings back memories when I pass it...

Living south of the river we rarely used Paragon station. But I recall on the day of the 1966 world cup attending a wedding of another former next door neighbour from Goxhill in Hull. After the ceremonies we followed the new couple to the station where they boarded a first class carriage to the honeymoon of a lifetime. It turned out they just went to Goole and picked up their old Ford Popular ('Bessie') and drove to North Wales.... Even then I had no interest whatsoever in 'the game' and wondered why everyone at the ferry port was earwigging on what was happening in the world on a radio which happened to be on in the harbourmaster's office. A major triumph about to happen, but teenage Dave couldn't care less, he just wanted to board the ferry and get home!

 

[Ashley Hill]

Were the Humber ferries preserved?

 

[swt_passenger]

Thank you for the reply and explanation. I am familiar with "trap points " but had never heard of a sand drag....until now.

Just noticed this, I’d note that sand drags are quite common on London Underground infrastructure, and often used at the end of reversing sidings between running lines, even when underground, presumably because they don’t want deviation away from the line of the track.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Were the Humber ferries preserved?

Just googled them. The PS Wingfield is preserved in Hartlepool but the PS Lincoln Castle was scrapped in Grimsby in 2010. It goes to show that preservation isn’t necessarily permanent.

 

[simonw]

Were the Humber ferries preserved?

As @davews says, one is preserved on the Thames

PS Tattershall Castle - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org