TfW 175 shortages

[Jez]

Well I took the train from my local station Briton Ferry to Cardiff Central today and stood the entire journey. A 2 car 150 on the 1309 to Manchester Piccadilly. There was lots of passengers standing. I counted 25 in the front car after leaving Bridgend. I was not the slightest bit surprised it was so busy but decided to brave the train! Lots of moaning from passenger's. Lots of large suitcases and a few fold up seats were blocked by luggage which didn't help. The 150s aren't ideal for lots of luggage. One lady commented about the luggage blocking seats and was told there was no where else to put them.

Now I actually think I prefer to stand on a 150.if I have to stand on a train I've had many uncomfortable journeys stood on a 175 between Neath and Cardiff and Manchester and Crewe usually and you feel crammed in often on a 175. But I had plenty of space to stand on the 150. Although obviously it depends on how many people are actually on the train..Today I'd say about 25 people at most were stood. But the luggage and a pushchair were the main issues.

On arrival at Cardiff most people got off myself included. But there was another lot of passengers waiting to board and on departure from Cardiff was just as full and many people standing as before.

Roll on Swanline retuning as a separate service! Hopefully I won't have this issue next time I use my swanline station!

 

[Llanigraham]

Thank you. This is what i thought having seen photos of 002 happily sitting off lease.

So 2 are being allowed to go off lease despite the shortages of units causing cancellations.

It is just good if people are honest about what is happening instead of trying to pretend that every possible option is being exercised to maintain the service. Presuming here that trains are returned in working order or that the same part being ordered for the other 175s could be ordered for 002 and 005.

I just wish someone would push in the Welsh Assembly on how units can be off lease while there are insufficient units to operate the timetabled service. Some investigative journalism would not go amiss either.

Is it not possible that the Leasee won't allow them to be used and is insisting on their return?

 

[170UTD]

170204 this weekend then 170201 and 202 weekend after

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Apr 2023 ==

170207 to move weekend 30/04 three remaining 170s to staff with TFW until November

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Apr 2023 ==

170205 expected in service 15/04 after relivery

From another thread. Looks like TfW have been able to do some grovelling and are keeping a micro fleet of 170s until later in the year. Presumably due to the 175 issues.

 

[Liverpool 507]

From another thread. Looks like TfW have been able to do some grovelling and are keeping a micro fleet of 170s until later in the year. Presumably due to the 175 issues.

Presumably isolated to Ebbw Vale or Cheltenham - Maesteg services

 

[Anonymous10]

Presumably isolated to Ebbw Vale or Cheltenham - Maesteg services

I'd guess Ebbw Vale given its 3 units giving likely 1 or 2 available per day

 

[animationmilo]

I'd guess Ebbw Vale given its 3 units giving likely 1 or 2 available per day

I wonder what Measteg will get

 

[Anonymous10]

I wonder what Measteg will get

Likely 15x stock it'll be whatever is cleared for the route and able to work it much as has been the case elsewhere

 

[Jez]

I wonder what Measteg will get

If enough 175s are back by May timetable then they will do Maesteg. If not assume it will be a mixture of Sprinters.

 

[Topological]

I saw a 175/0 from the M4 heading towards Port Talbot this afternoon. It was like seeing a ghost.

@Jez experience of the 150 is consistent with what I see, though I always aim to board at the first station and know where the doors will be. Even if there are nearer stations I would still choose Swansea itself to board. I also tend to take the 0536 from Swansea as that doesn't really fill completely until Newport.

 

[Philip]

175110 is working the 10:40 Holyhead-Cardiff, another one back in service?

 

[CaergwrleKen]

175110 is working the 10:40 Holyhead-Cardiff, another one back in service?

The 175 situation appears to be slowing improving, unfortunately 170s/769s are going off lease and the Mk4sets/230s continue to be very unreliable so things aren’t really getting any better as regards overall fleet availability.

 

[185143]

There's been a Mk4 set at Man Picc for the night after failing last night on 1K76. Not sure wether it's moved, but was still shut down when I passed through a couple of hours or so ago.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I guess all the 231s should now be in traffic as well as maybe the first of the 756s. So the Rhymney line theoretically should be 150 free. But have TfW got the bottle to do that, because it would cause crew to lapse competence on them. What else are 231s doing as there are probably only 7 or 8 diagrams for the Rhymney line aren't there ?

 

[MP393]

I guess all the 231s should now be in traffic as well as maybe the first of the 756s. So the Rhymney line theoretically should be 150 free. But have TfW got the bottle to do that, because it would cause crew to lapse competence on them. What else are 231s doing as there are probably only 7 or 8 diagrams for the Rhymney line aren't there ?

Rhymney crew work the other valley line branches too, not just that line, so they wouldn’t loose competence on 150s

 

[Wyrleybart]

Rhymney crew work the other valley line branches too, not just that line, so they wouldn’t loose competence on 150s

Thanks for that.

 

[Jez]

I saw a 175/0 from the M4 heading towards Port Talbot this afternoon. It was like seeing a ghost.

@Jez experience of the 150 is consistent with what I see, though I always aim to board at the first station and know where the doors will be. Even if there are nearer stations I would still choose Swansea itself to board. I also tend to take the 0536 from Swansea as that doesn't really fill completely until Newport.

If I'd gone to Neath or Swansea I might as well have got on a GWR!

The idea of Swanline stations is to catch the train local to your home without using the car or a bus to get to a bigger station. I was prepared for it being busy and it didn't disappoint lol. I was tempted to get off in Bridgend and switch to the stopper from Maesteg but decided to stay another 20 mins until Cardiff.

 

[The_Train]

Are the 2 fire damaged units now on depot somewhere or still dumped in a siding?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Are the 2 fire damaged units now on depot somewhere or still dumped in a siding?

007 and 008 at Chester and 101 is at Crewe was the last I heard of their locations.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If the situation is no better when the Swanline returns next month, and trains are still largely tiny 150s, I do think the TfW service to Carmarthen and beyond should be advertised as first stop Llanelli at stations in between Newport and Neath until this is sorted. The GWR runs five minutes before and there will also be the Swanline.

Then perhaps in the return direction should be advertised at Swansea - Cardiff as set down only for the 1tp2h terminating at Cardiff and first stop Cwmbran for the Manchesters.

 

[Topological]

If the situation is no better when the Swanline returns next month, and trains are still largely tiny 150s, I do think the TfW service to Carmarthen and beyond should be advertised as first stop Llanelli at stations in between Newport and Neath until this is sorted. The GWR runs five minutes before and there will also be the Swanline.

Then perhaps in the return direction should be advertised at Swansea - Cardiff as set down only for the 1tp2h terminating at Cardiff and first stop Cwmbran for the Manchesters.

That may be a little drastic, though I can see the logic.

One easy change would be to make the 09:23 Swansea to London GWR train Off Peak for the purposes of travel to Cardiff. Making everyone crowd onto the TfW has always seemed strange at the best of times. If that is unpalatable push the peak restrictions later so the 09:5x is classed as peak and the 10:23 GWR is the first Off Peak. Given the peak restriction is 09:30, the 09:23 change seems the most sensible.

Ultimately getting stock back has to be the priority.

I am afraid I do not buy the value for taxpayers money argument. Tax payers are not shareholders. The accountability for any lack of value of money lies squarely at the feet of whoever signed off a plan to transfer to a new fleet with such terrible provision for keeping the service running in the mean time (including the changes to 175 maintenance). I can understand how said responsible parties now want to argue the value for money point, but as a public service the focus should be on the service. If there is a chance to run a better service for a few months, or even weeks, then the extra leasing costs should be paid. If we start running public services on value for money (measured in revenue terms) then we will be cutting a lot and it is not a world I would vote for.

 

[ValleyLines142]

175103 has just pulled in Cheltenham on the 1646 to Maesteg!

 

[Jez]

If the situation is no better when the Swanline returns next month, and trains are still largely tiny 150s, I do think the TfW service to Carmarthen and beyond should be advertised as first stop Llanelli at stations in between Newport and Neath until this is sorted. The GWR runs five minutes before and there will also be the Swanline.

Then perhaps in the return direction should be advertised at Swansea - Cardiff as set down only for the 1tp2h terminating at Cardiff and first stop Cwmbran for the Manchesters.

I think thats likely to just confuse everyone! People wont know which train they can get on.

I do think its silly that people just get on the first train that arrives, no matter how crowded it is. Prime example in Bridgend yesterday everyone piling onto the overcrowded 150 when there was a 3 car 170 due about 10 mins later. Granted that stops at 3 additional stations but would only arrive into Cardiff where most people were going, around 15 minutes later. Unless I was in a rush i would have waited and almost got off the train to switch to the 170, something ive done a few times before to get a seat. But as standing on 150 isnt too bad compared to a 175 I didnt bother.

I made sure i was at the front waiting for my return journey today - 1704 Cardiff-Tenby formed of a pair of 153s! Fortunately not as busy as it could have been as it followed the GWR which was slightly late.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Apr 2023 ==

175103 has just pulled in Cheltenham on the 1646 to Maesteg!

I noticed a couple of 175s in Cardiff today when waiting for my train home. One was the 1622 to Chester and another terminated on platform 4, possibly from Ebbw Vale?

it seems odd they use the few 175s available on Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham's yet we get a mixture of 150s and 153s on the Manchester-Carmarthen/Tenby/Milfords!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Apr 2023 ==

That may be a little drastic, though I can see the logic.

One easy change would be to make the 09:23 Swansea to London GWR train Off Peak for the purposes of travel to Cardiff. Making everyone crowd onto the TfW has always seemed strange at the best of times. If that is unpalatable push the peak restrictions later so the 09:5x is classed as peak and the 10:23 GWR is the first Off Peak. Given the peak restriction is 09:30, the 09:23 change seems the most sensible.

Ultimately getting stock back has to be the priority.

I am afraid I do not buy the value for taxpayers money argument. Tax payers are not shareholders. The accountability for any lack of value of money lies squarely at the feet of whoever signed off a plan to transfer to a new fleet with such terrible provision for keeping the service running in the mean time (including the changes to 175 maintenance). I can understand how said responsible parties now want to argue the value for money point, but as a public service the focus should be on the service. If there is a chance to run a better service for a few months, or even weeks, then the extra leasing costs should be paid. If we start running public services on value for money (measured in revenue terms) then we will be cutting a lot and it is not a world I would vote for.

When I was waiting at Cardiff the 1652 to Manchester pulled into Platform 2 and some people seemed bemused that it was a pair of 153s! They didn't seem to think such an old looking train was going to Manchester, I said I'm afraid so!

 

[323235]

So how many serviceable 175s are there now?

 

[Jez]

Just checked RTT and the 175 i saw terminate was from Holyhead not from Ebbw Vale. I assumed it was Ebbw Vale due to the time but it looks like the Holyhead was about 20 minutes late. The Ebbw Vale actually terminated into Platform 0 which I didnt notice as the view was blocked by other trains.

 

[The Prisoner]

So how many serviceable 175s are there now?

Seem to be up to 9. 003/006/009/011 and 102/103/104/110/116

 

[Jez]

Seems to be quite a few 175s out today. Hopefully a good sign things are improving at last. From Swansea 1658, 1754 and 1900 all 3 car 175 - 3 consecutive TFW fast trains to Cardiff. Something that hasn't happened for weeks.

 

[The Prisoner]

001 on Cardiff - Holyhead today, so looks like 10 now active. 001/003/006/009/011 and 102/103/104/110/116

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Would anyone be so kind as to compose a list of the status of the 175 fleet please? I think it’d be very interesting.

 

[craigybagel]

In terms of the engine bays, was it more (or less) likely that the centre car would be involved in fires? ISTR fires 10-15 years ago in similar circumstances were often seated in the centre car, but this could be a completely invented memory. Is there anything which backs this up (or refutes it)?

Of the 3 175 fires this year that brought about the current crisis, 2 of them were on 2 car sets.

 

[Bob Price]

175110 just pulled into Crewe on a shuttle from Chester.