Railcard renewal problems

[spag23]

My wife's paper, station-purchased Senior Railcard expires on 20th April. We are trying to renew it with a 3 year plastic one, to start - understandably - on 21st April.
She recently set up a Railcard account, but it won't let her load this current card onto it; the serial number is too short.
Railcard Customer Services explained that the Railcard system knows nothing of her current card "because it was bought at a station".
So we went online to buy a completely fresh card. But it doesn't let you specify a start date; it has to start immediately.
So we got back on the phone to Customer Services. But they can't set a start date either, telling us to call back just before the required start date. But we can buy it online anyway then.
Has anyone else encountered this inflexibility and lack of joined-up customer records?

 

[island]

That's just how it works I'm afraid.

 

[spag23]

That's just how it works I'm afraid.

Thanks, island.
Once the new card is loaded onto the account, in future will we be able to renew well ahead of its expiry date, but with the new card's starting date butting up to the old one's expiry?

 

[Alex365Dash]

Once the new card is loaded onto the account, in future will we be able to renew well ahead of its expiry date, but with the new card's starting date butting up to the old one's expiry?

Yep, the renewal process will work fine going forwards.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Yep, the renewal process will work fine going forwards.

Has the previously reported "issue" whereby photos are seemingly sometimes required for online Senior Railcard renewals, now been resolved? Obviously won't be a problem for the OP / the OP's wife until April 2026.

 

[alholmes]

Has the previously reported "issue" whereby photos are seemingly sometimes required for online Senior Railcard renewals, now been resolved? Obviously won't be a problem for the OP / the OP's wife until April 2026.

I did an online renewal of my digital Network Railcard last week (first time I’ve done a renewal) and it required me to upload a photo. I was slightly surprised as I’d have thought they would have stored my photo from last year. Not a problem though, easy enough to upload a new picture.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I did an online renewal of my digital Network Railcard last week (first time I’ve done a renewal) and it required me to upload a photo.

That's as may be, but the point is, photos aren't actually required for new or renewed Senior Railcards, are they?

 

[1D54]

I wasn't aware a photo was required.

 

[spag23]

My own 3 year plastic renewal (starting in November) didn't need a photo.
I always steer clear of digital versions of travel docs; I've seen too many dead phone stories on this forum!

 

[Haywain]

Thanks, island.
Once the new card is loaded onto the account, in future will we be able to renew well ahead of its expiry date, but with the new card's starting date butting up to the old one's expiry?

When you buy a new physical railcard online the start date is usually about 10 days after the date of purchase, to allow time for it to reach you in the post. So, if you buy in a few days the start date will be around the 20th anyway.

 

[M&NEJ]

Has the previously reported "issue" whereby photos are seemingly sometimes required for online Senior Railcard renewals, now been resolved?

I renewed my Senior Railcard on line recently and gave my passport number. It didn't ask me for a photo, but I don't know if the railcard database accessed the passport database to get one!

 

[island]

I renewed my Senior Railcard on line recently and gave my passport number. It didn't ask me for a photo, but I don't know if the railcard database accessed the passport database to get one!

The Railcard issuers have no access to the passport database.

 

[Ediswan]

The Railcard issuers have no access to the passport database.

Which begs the question, why ask for the passport number ?

 

[island]

Which begs the question,

It doesn't beg the question, it raises the question. (Sorry, pet peeve.)

why ask for the passport number ?

The machine readable numbers from the bottom of a passport are used to confirm the date of birth given and that same is in the range necessary to be entitled to the relevant Railcard.

 

[spag23]

The machine readable numbers from the bottom of a passport are used to confirm the date of birth given and that same is in the range necessary to be entitled to the relevant Railcard.

Yes, the 30 character number actually contains the DoB, even less disguised than on a driving license. Presumably the issuers can check with the Passport Office that the number supplied is genuine (or by a parity check?).

 

[MikeWh]

Yes, the 30 character number actually contains the DoB, even less disguised than on a driving license. Presumably the issuers can check with the Passport Office that the number supplied is genuine (or by a parity check?).

More likely by parity check.

 

[SussexMan]

When you buy a new physical railcard online the start date is usually about 10 days after the date of purchase, to allow time for it to reach you in the post. So, if you buy in a few days the start date will be around the 20th anyway.

Railcards bought online have a Start Date? The ones I've bought only have an Expiry Date, which is usually about 370 days after purchase. Maybe it depends on the type of railcard?

 

[Haywain]

Railcards bought online have a Start Date? The ones I've bought only have an Expiry Date, which is usually about 370 days after purchase. Maybe it depends on the type of railcard?

A theoretical start date, yes. 1 or 3 years prior to the expiry date, depending on what term is being purchased.

 

[M&NEJ]

The machine readable numbers from the bottom of a passport are used to confirm the date of birth given and that same is in the range necessary to be entitled to the relevant Railcard.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Now it begs the question: what's the mystery surrounding photographs? I didn't need one for my Senior railcard; but we had to supply a passport photo for my son's 17 - 25 yrs old railcard. Presumably I'm regarded as more trustworthy than my teenage son?!

 

[island]

Thank you for clarifying that.

Now it begs the question: what's the mystery surrounding photographs? I didn't need one for my Senior railcard; but we had to supply a passport photo for my son's 17 - 25 yrs old railcard. Presumably I'm regarded as more trustworthy than my teenage son?!

16-25, 26-30 and Two Together Railcards have always consistently required photographs. As for why that isn't more widely the case I cannot say.

 

[spag23]

It's not as if Senior Railcards have no capacity for printing pictures; they have five colour (and irrelevant) thumbnails of a coastal scene. But it's not a problem; in fact, it makes the application less of a hassle.
But would an RPI be entitled to demand another form of ID; perhaps even a photographic form?

 

[MikeWh]

But would an RPI be entitled to demand another form of ID; perhaps even a photographic form?

No. There is nothing in the terms and conditions that says a photo-ID is required.

 

[island]

But would an RPI be entitled to demand another form of ID; perhaps even a photographic form?

Traditionally the way of verifying the identity of a non-photographic Railcard was to request the passenger to sign a blank piece of paper (which the passenger would keep or destroy afterwards) and compare the signature to that on the Railcard, which is not valid unless signed. An RPI can however certainly politely request to see ID, and though providing it is not a legal obligation, doing so may promptly resolve any concerns the RPI has about the identity of the passenger presenting the Railcard. Should the RPI remain so concerned they retain the right to withdraw the ticket and Railcard (giving a receipt) and logging a Travel Irregularity Report.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Now it begs the question: what's the mystery surrounding photographs? I didn't need one for my Senior railcard; but we had to supply a passport photo for my son's 17 - 25 yrs old railcard. Presumably I'm regarded as more trustworthy than my teenage son?!

Essentially I think the answer to that is 'yes'.

 

[Ediswan]

More likely by parity check.

The standards for the 'machine readable zone' (MRZ) are published. Including the algorithm for those check digits. If railcard issuers are using that information without further verification, they are doing so on trust. It would be straightforward to generate a 'valid' sequence of characters, containing a desired date of birth. There is at least one online calculator which will do it for you.

Wikipedia has a summary:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine-readable_passport

Checksum calculation​

The check digit calculation is as follows: each position is assigned a value; for the digits 0 to 9 this is the value of the digits, for the letters A to Z this is 10 to 35, for the filler < this is 0. The value of each position is then multiplied by its weight; the weight of the first position is 7, of the second it is 3, and of the third it is 1, and after that the weights repeat 7, 3, 1, and so on. All values are added together and the remainder of the final value divided by 10 is the check digit.

 

[Birkonian]

I've just renewed my digital Senior Railcard but it hasn't uploaded my photo. Surely the system shouldn't allow payment to be taken if there is a problem with my photo? Anyway, will this cause a problem when I travel this week? My photo on last year's card can be seen to verify it is me. I've contacted Railcard but the message states that it can take 10 days to respond which is no help.

 

[1D54]

A photo that isn't required anyway. You will encounter no problems at all.

 

[Haywain]

A photo that isn't required anyway. You will encounter no problems at all.

A photo is required for a digital railcard.

 

[Birkonian]

I was pleased that I was to get through on the helpline quickly. I was asked if I was happy to use last year's photo. I agreed and it was sorted immediately. This begs the question of why we can't use the existing photo automatically. After all, a passport photo stays the same for 10 years and my Merseyrail travel photo is 7 years old.

 

[contrex]

A theoretical start date, yes. 1 or 3 years prior to the expiry date, depending on what term is being purchased.

I renewed a paper 1 year Senior Railcard at Bath Spa that expired on 22.3.2023. I chose to do it on 15.3.2023, and I asked the lady if I would 'lose a week'. She said 'No, I'll extend the new card by 7 days'. My new card started on 15.3.2023, and expires on 29.3.2024