TfW 175 shortages

[56xx]

Departures from West Wales (Milford Haven) to Manchester today that are 175s

1300 - 175103
1507 - 175102
1915 - 175116 (terminates Cardiff Central)

Also 175104 and 175003 on Holyheads. Plus 175011 on 1505 Swansea to Chester

All the Manchester that start in Cardiff appear to be Sprinters (apart from those that are MK4). So looks like 6 out again today.

175 009 is on Ebbw Vale together with a pair of 153s. Service seems to be running with 2 units doing a quick turn around at Cardiff instead of the usual 3 units. May be due to lack of 170s which are being prepared to leave for East Midlands.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

175 009 is on Ebbw Vale together with a pair of 153s. Service seems to be running with 2 units doing a quick turn around at Cardiff instead of the usual 3 units. May be due to lack of 170s which are being prepared to leave for East Midlands.

and 170205 has already gone, of course, so it's not even that they have the full set of 3-carriage ones anymore.

 

[Jez]

175 009 is on Ebbw Vale together with a pair of 153s. Service seems to be running with 2 units doing a quick turn around at Cardiff instead of the usual 3 units. May be due to lack of 170s which are being prepared to leave for East Midlands.

Thanks. Didnt check Ebbw Vale as assumed would still be 170s at present. Good that another one is out in service.

 

[The Prisoner]

Seem to have got into a pattern of eight units operating regularly:

003/006/009/011 and 102/103/104/116

With 002/005/111 now officially stored that’s a third of the units operational

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Seem to have got into a pattern of eight units operating regularly:

003/006/009/011 and 102/103/104/116

With 002/005/111 now officially stored that’s a third of the units operational

007 008 and 101 also unlikely to work again under TFW due to the fire damage.

 

[Dan G]

So out of the 27, three stored and three fire-damaged leaves 21 units, from which eight units seem to be generated daily for operation. Not ideal!

 

[Topological]

Are the units stored because they do not work?

If it is because of something silly like being allowed to go off lease, the WAG should be explaining why people are enduring unsuitable 150s on the Marches and why those 150s are creating cancellations elsewhere in a nationalised service.

Not having space in Chester for maintenance feels like an excuse when the space is being used to maintain trains that are not yet able to be used to replace the 175s on the Marches. If there has to be a period when existing trains cannot be maintained, but new trains cannot be used, then why do other operators not see a dip in service for 1 year in the transition (assuming that we are talking about 197s on the Manchester to Cardiff trains 1 year after the first 197 ran in revenue service)

To my mind any 175 that works should stay in use until there is a replacement that can be used in service. No one is expecting to go straight from 175 to 5 car 197 but the transition should not see less services operating.

 

[Caaardiff]

Are the units stored because they do not work?

If it is because of something silly like being allowed to go off lease, the WAG should be explaining why people are enduring unsuitable 150s on the Marches and why those 150s are creating cancellations elsewhere in a nationalised service.

Not having space in Chester for maintenance feels like an excuse when the space is being used to maintain trains that are not yet able to be used to replace the 175s on the Marches. If there has to be a period when existing trains cannot be maintained, but new trains cannot be used, then why do other operators not see a dip in service for 1 year in the transition (assuming that we are talking about 197s on the Manchester to Cardiff trains 1 year after the first 197 ran in revenue service)

To my mind any 175 that works should stay in use until there is a replacement that can be used in service. No one is expecting to go straight from 175 to 5 car 197 but the transition should not see less services operating.

No. The stopped 175s are awaiting parts to get them repaired.

 

[Topological]

No. The stopped 175s are awaiting parts to get them repaired.

So what is the difference between 002/005 and 111 as mentioned by The Prisoner in post 604 and the others which have not been seen in service since the parts question came up (excluding here the three which are fire damaged).

I am just an ordinary user of TfW but stored implies that they are not being kept in the same ready to go status as others which are awaiting parts.

To clarify. IF the parts arrive will 002, 005 and 111 come back to service?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

So what is the difference between 002/005 and 111 as mentioned by The Prisoner in post 604 and the others which have not been seen in service since the parts question came up (excluding here the three which are fire damaged).

I am just an ordinary user of TfW but stored implies that they are not being kept in the same ready to go status as others which are awaiting parts.

To clarify. IF the parts arrive will 002, 005 and 111 come back to service?

111 is a heavily stripped parts donor. 005 stored at Holyhead awaiting inspection to go off lease. 002 at Landore under inspection ready to go off lease.

 

[Topological]

111 is a heavily stripped parts donor. 005 stored at Holyhead awaiting inspection to go off lease. 002 at Landore under inspection ready to go off lease.

Thank you. This is what i thought having seen photos of 002 happily sitting off lease.

So 2 are being allowed to go off lease despite the shortages of units causing cancellations.

It is just good if people are honest about what is happening instead of trying to pretend that every possible option is being exercised to maintain the service. Presuming here that trains are returned in working order or that the same part being ordered for the other 175s could be ordered for 002 and 005.

I just wish someone would push in the Welsh Assembly on how units can be off lease while there are insufficient units to operate the timetabled service. Some investigative journalism would not go amiss either.

 

[Philip]

So what is the difference between 002/005 and 111 as mentioned by The Prisoner in post 604 and the others which have not been seen in service since the parts question came up (excluding here the three which are fire damaged).

I am just an ordinary user of TfW but stored implies that they are not being kept in the same ready to go status as others which are awaiting parts.

To clarify. IF the parts arrive will 002, 005 and 111 come back to service?

Even aside from the damaged/stores ones mentioned, quite a few units haven't been in service since they were first withdrawn a month ago.

 

[Dai Corner]

I just wish someone would push in the Welsh Assembly on how units can be off lease while there are insufficient units to operate the timetabled service.

That would Natasha Asghar, the opposition spokeswoman for Transport.

Natasha Asghar MS

The Welsh Parliament is the democratically elected body that represents the interests of Wales and its people. Commonly known as the Senedd, it makes laws for Wales, agrees Welsh taxes and holds the Welsh Government to account.

senedd.wales

 

[craigybagel]

Given there aren't enough of the problematic parts available to keep any more units in service than what is out now, if the units going off lease were kept on TfW's books for longer they'd only be stuck parked up waiting parts the same as the rest of the units anyway.

 

[Dan G]

It could be that the 175s that aren't coming out are acting as donors of these critical parts in order to get at least some units operational.

 

[Steveswan10]

I know its far from ideal, but gotta give it to the class 150s not particularly suitable or built for top link express work (Cardiff-Holyhead and South Wales to Manchester) everyday-all day, they are providing a very good service with hardly any issue's-not bad for a train built 30+ years ago for local work

 

[01d-and]

Had a nice and fast trip aboard 150-217 [+ 158-832 ] yesterday between New Street and Wolverhampton.

 

[Jez]

I get what people are saying. No 175 that are in full working order should be sent off lease at the moment due to the chronic shortage of suitable units for Manchester-Cardiff/Milford.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Apr 2023 ==

I know its far from ideal, but gotta give it to the class 150s not particularly suitable or built for top link express work (Cardiff-Holyhead and South Wales to Manchester) everyday-all day, they are providing a very good service with hardly any issue's-not bad for a train built 30+ years ago for local work

I have to admit I prefer a 150 to a pair of 153s. I think they are the worst units currently used on the Manchester-South Wales runs. They also seem to have trouble keeping to time compared to a 150.

 

[Techniquest]

175104+175003 made for a funky sight this morning at Hereford! 003 was not opened, but still an unusual sight. I've forgot as I type this with a really bad mobile signal in the Wilnecote area (221138 is stuck behind a late running 170398, which is stopping everywhere in sight it would seem) what working the 175s were on.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If you have to have a 150 deputising on a longer distance service, better that it's one of TfW's permanent units rather than one of the Northern loanees... it least they have something vaguely approaching a suitable interior for that sort of a trip!

 

[SuperLuke2334]

175104+175003 made for a funky sight this morning at Hereford! 003 was not opened, but still an unusual sight. I've forgot as I type this with a really bad mobile signal in the Wilnecote area (221138 is stuck behind a late running 170398, which is stopping everywhere in sight it would seem) what working the 175s were on.

1V92 Holyhead to Maesteg

 

[Techniquest]

1V92 Holyhead to Maesteg

Thanks I remember seeing it was running rather late, I had considered doing it to Pontypool for some walking up to Blaenavon, but the forecast was dire. Not much better on these foreign metals mind!

 

[amwells]

Is 175002 visible from a public place at Landore at all? One of my last three of the class to see and seems like time is running out!

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Is 175002 visible from a public place at Landore at all? One of my last three of the class to see and seems like time is running out!

Last I heard of it it was in the shed so unlikely to be visible from a static place or passing train.

 

[amwells]

Last I heard of it it was in the shed so unlikely to be visible from a static place or passing train.

Thank you

 

[anthony263]

These were posted yesterday on the transport for wales Facebook group so might be of interest

 

[Anonymous10]

Are the units stored because they do not work?

If it is because of something silly like being allowed to go off lease, the WAG should be explaining why people are enduring unsuitable 150s on the Marches and why those 150s are creating cancellations elsewhere in a nationalised service.

Not having space in Chester for maintenance feels like an excuse when the space is being used to maintain trains that are not yet able to be used to replace the 175s on the Marches. If there has to be a period when existing trains cannot be maintained, but new trains cannot be used, then why do other operators not see a dip in service for 1 year in the transition (assuming that we are talking about 197s on the Manchester to Cardiff trains 1 year after the first 197 ran in revenue service)

To my mind any 175 that works should stay in use until there is a replacement that can be used in service. No one is expecting to go straight from 175 to 5 car 197 but the transition should not see less services operating.

The 197s haven't been in service for a year either to be fair

 

[Topological]

The 197s haven't been in service for a year either to be fair

No, but they will be by the time they appear on Manchester services based on most estimates on here. I would like to think we will see 197s before November, but the talk is usually that Manchester will be last to go over to 197 operation.

It is amazing that anyone can defend sending working trains off lease, or even not fixing the trains so they can run, until the 197s can take over.

There are posts saying that a 150 is better than nothing. That is true. However, for the line that has had its 150 borrowed they actually do have nothing so then is it so acceptable to have trains that could run taken off lease before their replacements are in operation?

If there had been spare 150 sitting about then it would not be so bad, but there were not.

 

[Wrexham12]

No, but they will be by the time they appear on Manchester services based on most estimates on here. I would like to think we will see 197s before November, but the talk is usually that Manchester will be last to go over to 197 operation.

It is amazing that anyone can defend sending working trains off lease, or even not fixing the trains so they can run, until the 197s can take over.

There are posts saying that a 150 is better than nothing. That is true. However, for the line that has had its 150 borrowed they actually do have nothing so then is it so acceptable to have trains that could run taken off lease before their replacements are in operation?

If there had been spare 150 sitting about then it would not be so bad, but there were not.

Cambrian will certainly be the last to go, so 158s around for a while on Birminghams and Holyheads

 

[Anonymous10]

No, but they will be by the time they appear on Manchester services based on most estimates on here. I would like to think we will see 197s before November, but the talk is usually that Manchester will be last to go over to 197 operation.

It is amazing that anyone can defend sending working trains off lease, or even not fixing the trains so they can run, until the 197s can take over.

There are posts saying that a 150 is better than nothing. That is true. However, for the line that has had its 150 borrowed they actually do have nothing so then is it so acceptable to have trains that could run taken off lease before their replacements are in operation?

If there had been spare 150 sitting about then it would not be so bad, but there were not.

The issue is, how long does it take to manufacture the required parts if it'll take as long to make and fit them all as to 197 introduction it fan be argued to be a waste of taxpayers money. If they have sent a few off lease for this reason I will 100% support that decision.