TfW 175 shortages

[william.martin]

But there must somewhere still be a market for modern diesel units.

These aren't modern, civity's and FLIRT's are.

 

[SteveyBee131]

...But there must somewhere still be a market for modern diesel units.

They were modern 24 years ago (wow is it that long!). Sadly though, if they're as corroded as they say they are, and with their fiery reputation and consequent need for extra specialist care and maintenance, it's highly unlikely that anyone would want the liability of them, no matter how awesome they are when they work.

 

[ajay1071]

These units are good for a few more years, always enjoyed the journeys I've made on them which have been reliable and pleasant, the recent issues seem to coincide with the run down of the maintenance cycle on the units, so if a new role could be found for them and the required maintenance is maintained they could fulfil a role where units are in short supply.

 

[southernyoshi]

Hello! This is my patch despite my name, I'm wondering when the 197s will appear on the main line, and if the remaining 175s will actually return or not, will they go straight to 197s? Does anyone know? Thank you

 

[D365]

They were modern 24 years ago (wow is it that long!). Sadly though, if they're as corroded as they say they are, and with their fiery reputation and consequent need for extra specialist care and maintenance, it's highly unlikely that anyone would want the liability of them, no matter how awesome they are when they work.

Indeed - I'm just suggesting reasons why Angel might be trying to still keep them going.

 

[ValleyLines142]

One thing I've noticed a lot of late, and this was before the 175s going up in flames, is the number of Cardiff to Manchesters that are booked as 4 car to Crewe, then only 2 car onto Manchester!

A few weeks ago there were two footy games in Manchester and general Sunday travel traffic, and a 150+2x153s pulled into Crewe. They were absolutely rammed to the rafters anyway, but the 2 153s were booked to come off at Crewe so only the 150 was continuing alone onto Manchester. No Avanti services from Crewe to Manchester (all via Stoke) due to engineering works and in the end they cancelled it altogether due to overcrowding so in the end everyone had to get the Northern stopper (which was also full and standing). Absolute madness.

I notice lately a lot of 158s working Manchester services too, which is a blessing as they were a lot more suitable. Does this mean the Cambrian is struggling though? I know lately they've been terminating at Wolves so that has released a few units. I wonder whether it's more suitable to have Birmingham to Shrewsbury as 150+158, then dumping the 150 at Shrews as they can work through to Birmingham?

As it stands for today, 103 is out and about, but also 153329 is apparently going solo up to Manchester too! (clearly not updated on RTT yet).

 

[Philip]

Do Northern have a surplus of 158s which would allow them to loan a few to TfW until the 197s are ready to start work on Manchester-South Wales?

 

[D365]

Do Northern have a surplus of 158s which would allow them to loan a few to TfW until the 197s are ready to start work on Manchester-South Wales?

Why Northern specifically?

 

[skyhigh]

Do Northern have a surplus of 158s which would allow them to loan a few to TfW until the 197s are ready to start work on Manchester-South Wales?

No they do not.

 

[Class15]

It’s really a shame to see these units in such awful shape. They worked reliably for 20 years but now it’s almost impossible another TOC would want them.

 

[Philip]

Why Northern specifically?

They're not short of Sprinter stock and they have loaned Sprinters to and from TfW a few times in the past.

 

[Dai Corner]

They're not short of Sprinter stock and they have loaned Sprinters to and from TfW a few times in the past.

Indeed there are a couple of 150s on loan from Northern to TfW at the moment.

The other problem with finding future work for the 175s is the spare parts situation. TfW have announced quite loudly that whatever is required to fix the current problem is hard to find and a worldwide search is in progress.

 

[Krokodil]

Hello! This is my patch despite my name, I'm wondering when the 197s will appear on the main line, and if the remaining 175s will actually return or not, will they go straight to 197s? Does anyone know? Thank you

197s have been working main line services since December.

They worked reliably for 20 years

That's a slightly rose-tinted view. There were all sorts of problems in the early days, and there have been a number of fires over the years.

 

[Jez]

Hello! This is my patch despite my name, I'm wondering when the 197s will appear on the main line, and if the remaining 175s will actually return or not, will they go straight to 197s? Does anyone know? Thank you

The 197s arent due to appear on the core Manchester-South/West Wales services until towards the end of the year. From May there should be some on Cardiff-Holyhead. Also some Swansea-Cardiff stoppers apparently and depending what happens with the MK4s i wouldnt rule out them appearing on any that are just Cardiff-Manchester either. But its all up in the air at the moment it seems. Personally id love them to take over the entire route from Manchester-West Wales and not have the 175s back but i cant see that happening until December.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Mar 2023 ==

One thing I've noticed a lot of late, and this was before the 175s going up in flames, is the number of Cardiff to Manchesters that are booked as 4 car to Crewe, then only 2 car onto Manchester!

A few weeks ago there were two footy games in Manchester and general Sunday travel traffic, and a 150+2x153s pulled into Crewe. They were absolutely rammed to the rafters anyway, but the 2 153s were booked to come off at Crewe so only the 150 was continuing alone onto Manchester. No Avanti services from Crewe to Manchester (all via Stoke) due to engineering works and in the end they cancelled it altogether due to overcrowding so in the end everyone had to get the Northern stopper (which was also full and standing). Absolute madness.

I notice lately a lot of 158s working Manchester services too, which is a blessing as they were a lot more suitable. Does this mean the Cambrian is struggling though? I know lately they've been terminating at Wolves so that has released a few units. I wonder whether it's more suitable to have Birmingham to Shrewsbury as 150+158, then dumping the 150 at Shrews as they can work through to Birmingham?

As it stands for today, 103 is out and about, but also 153329 is apparently going solo up to Manchester too! (clearly not updated on RTT yet).

Ive not noticed many 4 car formations on the West Wales/Cardiff to Manchester route. Apart from a Sunday when longer formations are more common due to not needing as many trains overall on a Sunday. As for dropping carriages at Crewe, probabaly just getting them to where they need to be. Although i agree, Crewe-Manchester is often the busiest part of the entire route and would welcome extra capacity.

I agree, its been great seeing so many 158s. Ive always rated the 158s very highly and before the 175s had their refurbishment when TFW took over, they were my favourites. I was always happy when a 158 appeared on the Marches covering for a 175. Its a pity GWR cant loan TFW a few 158s. For a start they would be 3 carriages, by and large, and would be much better replacements for the 175s until the 197s can take over.

 

[route101]

Is the Manchester to South Wales a lottery on units at the moment?

 

[Jez]

197s have been working main line services since December.


That's a slightly rose-tinted view. There were all sorts of problems in the early days, and there have been a number of fires over the years.

They havent been perfect by any means but have served the route well for almost 20 years since they first turned up on the Marches. I often wonder if the reason they are in the state they are in is the mileage they have done. Daily trips between Milford Haven and Manchester and then back again, when they were originally meant to be doing shorter journeys between Blackpool and Manchester etc with FNW and TPE.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Is the Manchester to South Wales a lottery on units at the moment?

Absolutely, you'll be lucky not to get a Sprinter!

 

[Jez]

Is the Manchester to South Wales a lottery on units at the moment?

Well I think you can pretty much guarantee it will be a Sprinter at the moment. But whether a 158, 153 (pair) or 150 turns up is anyone's guess. A 150 and 153 combination is also quite common at the moment.

 

[Krokodil]

Is the Manchester to South Wales a lottery on units at the moment?

Well the odds of getting anything other than a non-ac member of the Sprinter family are probably similar to the odds of winning the lottery.

 

[Jez]

A quick look at TFW Journey Check shows most (if not all) of the Manchester to South Wales starting at Crewe today due to a fault with the signalling system.. However Northern are running their stopper from Manchester to Crewe. People will have to be at the station at least half an hour earlier or else end up an hour later than planned.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Absolutely, you'll be lucky not to get a Sprinter!

On the contrary, I don't think it is a lottery. You're pretty much guaranteed a 150, with the limited chance of a 158 or MK4, and a very rare chance of a 175.

 

[Jez]

On the contrary, I don't think it is a lottery. You're pretty much guaranteed a 150, with the limited chance of a 158 or MK4, and a very rare chance of a 175.

They do seem to be using 158s more often in the last few days which is far far better than a 150.

 

[Foxcover]

Not sure if this has been mentioned here but could the Nova 3s usefully work the Marches longer term (197s notwithstanding…)

 

[route101]

I didn't realise the 197s were not on South Wales to Manchester yet, I thought they were. Perhaps its the North Wales service.

 

[craigybagel]

Well the odds of getting anything other than a non-ac member of the Sprinter family are probably similar to the odds of winning the lottery.

I should buy a lottery ticket so, given how many 158s and 175s I've seen out over the last few days

Not sure if this has been mentioned here but could the Nova 3s usefully work the Marches longer term (197s notwithstanding…)

In theory yes, if you can persuade TPE to finally give up on them altogether, and TfW to take them on - and find the time to start training the crews up all over again. As potential stock transfers go, it's one of the more plausible scenarios out there.

 

[Topological]

A quick look at TFW Journey Check shows most (if not all) of the Manchester to South Wales starting at Crewe today due to a fault with the signalling system.. However Northern are running their stopper from Manchester to Crewe. People will have to be at the station at least half an hour earlier or else end up an hour later than planned.

Even if the TfW is running you have to be at Piccadilly half an hour early anyway to get a seat (Technically you can arrive just before the train at xx11 and push to the front of the people waiting on the platform)

I have not seen a 150+153 combination, but if there is one then that would be like winning the lottery. A third carriage is a huge luxury that I only experienced twice since Christmas when a 175/1 was actually available.

 

[Razorblades]

They havent been perfect by any means but have served the route well for almost 20 years since they first turned up on the Marches. I often wonder if the reason they are in the state they are in is the mileage they have done. Daily trips between Milford Haven and Manchester and then back again, when they were originally meant to be doing shorter journeys between Blackpool and Manchester etc with FNW and TPE.

The maintenance regime is principally mileage based, using balanced exams that pick up everything in the schedule. The duty cycles are not that different between the fleet's initial use in the North West and its latter TfW duties.

What's happened here regarding the fleet suddenly suffering an epidemic of fires, relates to the way the maintenance is contracted out, and further subcontracted. Chester depot, when managed by Alstom in the Arriva era, had a service contract with the original equipment manufacturer of the cooler group rafts which kept a pretty good handle on the radiators, alternator and the various hydraulic pumps that drive this system. It appears that the system focus has now been lost, to the detriment of the units.

 

[Krokodil]

197s are principally covering North Wales - Manchester. Occasionally they work Holyhead - Cardiff/Brum services but only as far as Chester. They should be working Liverpools and Blaenaus but these services have been cancelled for the next few weeks.

I have not seen a 150+153 combination

There was one working a South Wales - Manchester yesterday (diverted via Wrexham and terminating at Crewe).

 

[323235]

Indeed there are a couple of 150s on loan from Northern to TfW at the moment.

The other problem with finding future work for the 175s is the spare parts situation. TfW have announced quite loudly that whatever is required to fix the current problem is hard to find and a worldwide search is in progress.

Perhaps that’s the problem , they’re looking too far a field when the solution could be somewhere on their doorstep.

 

[Dai Corner]

Perhaps that’s the problem , they’re looking too far a field when the solution could be somewhere on their doorstep.

Surely anyone able to supply them would have been knocking on the door at Chester depot carrying a sample by now?