ASLEF / RMT dispute 2023

[Thirteen]

RMT have announced their members will be on strike the same day.

The pensions announcement has also been deferred again until 17th March.

With ASLEF on strike, the network was going to be limited either way so makes sense for the RMT to strike on the same day.

 

[Meerkat]

With ASLEF on strike, the network was going to be limited either way so makes sense for the RMT to strike on the same day.

Err doesn't it make more sense for the union to make more impact by striking a different day?

 

[Mojo]

Err doesn't it make more sense for the union to make more impact by striking a different day?

I would have thought that too.

 

[Mawkie]

Err doesn't it make more sense for the union to make more impact by striking a different day?

Very few of the RMT members would cross an ASLEF picket line anyway.

 

[wellhouse]

How likely is it that Interchange between Elizabeth Line and Thameslink will be possible on March 15th? Will Farringdon be open or closed?

 

[Mawkie]

It’s worth adding that any plan to reform LU pensions is entirely politically driven. TFL had no intention of doing it, the issue has only arisen as a condition of TFL’s funding package. Hence this will have the government’s fingerprints all over it, even more so than the various mainline disputes.

I know we're supposed to summarise any attachments, but I'm genuinely too thick to understand today's letter to HMG regarding the changes to the tfl pension fund. Could someone summarise it for me and others?

 

[Goldfish62]

I know we're supposed to summarise any attachments, but I'm genuinely too thick to understand today's letter to HMG regarding the changes to the tfl pension fund. Could someone summarise it for me and others?

So, basically TfL have concluded that if they are to reform the pension scheme the only viable option is to move it into the LGPS (Local Government Pension Scheme).

However, at this stage TfL are not committing to that and still consider "do nothing" to be a viable option.

The Mexican standoff continues

 

[bramling]

So, basically TfL have concluded that if they are to reform the pension scheme the only viable option is to move it into the LGPS (Local Government Pension Scheme).

However, at this stage TfL are not committing to that and still consider "do nothing" to be a viable option.

The Mexican standoff continues

I wonder if TFL are now simply playing for time, try and stall this out as long as possible, in the hope that something else changes.

I’m not sure what that something else might be though. Johnson and Shapps are now gone, which is probably a good thing as they were the ring-leaders of all this for sure. Sunak doesn’t seem to have the pathological hatred of TFL that those two did, so will the government now be prepared to quietly drop this providing it can be done without losing too much face?

But I’m not sure TFL would be able to hold out until the next general election happens, as that’s a good year to year-and-a-half away, and with a government who are probably resigned to losing anyway.

As you say, a right Mexican stand-off, with TFL’s staff caught in the middle essentially as collateral damage. I guess the immediate question is whether the unions decide to do more strikes in the absence of anything formal being announced. It has to be remembered the strikes, especially with ASLEF, aren’t just about pensions.

I suspect it will probably, eventually, end up being “do nothing”, simply because there are far more pressing and salient issues for both sides to be getting on with, and it’s well known this one is political / ideological rather than motivated by much pragmatic reasoning. The question is how much disruption and heartache has to be endured to reach that point? Also whether the price for “do nothing” on pensions is a much greater expectation of other reforms, in particular train crew rostering and such like. TFL not a happy ship at the moment, that’s for sure.

 

[endicomark69@g]

The only thing I have any faith in Politicians about is that if presented with a "do nothing" option on something prickly and pointless, they do tend to opt for the path of least resistance - which of course is leave things well alone and don't break anything.

Other than sheer ideological malice, there is nothing for even this type of government to gain by looking to prolong this particular exercise in futility.

We shall of course see if sanity can prevail.

 

[bramling]

The only thing I have any faith in Politicians about is that if presented with a "do nothing" option on something prickly and pointless, they do tend to opt for the path of least resistance - which of course is leave things well alone and don't break anything.

Other than sheer ideological malice, there is nothing for even this type of government to gain by looking to prolong this particular exercise in futility.

We shall of course see if sanity can prevail.

Yes the whole thing was essentially Johnson’s baby, with Shapps acting like henchman. It may well now be a case of finding a way to forget about it without loss of face. The whole thing has completely unsettled TFL though, so of course will have done a degree of unquantified damage, and probably lost the Conservatives yet more London votes.

TFL for their part will be more interested with making reforms to train crew agreements and such like, that will likely still rumble on as an issue.

 

[winks]

Out of interest (and not being an expert in this) but why does the TfL pension scheme need to be moved into another existing scheme? And if it does - wouldn’t the Railway Pension Scheme (RPS) be suitable ?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Political ideology.

 

[Mojo]

Out of interest (and not being an expert in this) but why does the TfL pension scheme need to be moved into another existing scheme? And if it does - wouldn’t the Railway Pension Scheme (RPS) be suitable ?

It doesn’t need to be moved it’s pure politics. I would have thought even moving into the RPS would not be considered acceptable for most staff as even many of those sections are inferior to the TfL Pension Scheme. Also worth pointing out that the TfL Pension Scheme isn’t just for London Underground staff but many older bus drivers as well as TfL who have nothing to do with the railway side of the business.

 

[Goldfish62]

It doesn’t need to be moved it’s pure politics. I would have thought even moving into the RPS would not be considered acceptable for most staff as even many of those sections are inferior to the TfL Pension Scheme. Also worth pointing out that the TfL Pension Scheme isn’t just for London Underground staff but many older bus drivers as well as TfL who have nothing to do with the railway side of the business.

Indeed. The TfL Pension Scheme is far from just Underground. Take the likes of me, I've never once worked in rail, but have 36 years of TfL Pension under my belt.