ASLEF / RMT dispute 2023

[Dstock7080]

ASLEF have announced a 24hr strike to commence 00.01 on 15 March 2023:

Tube train drivers to strike in London | ASLEF

ASLEF members on London Underground will strike for 24 hours on Wednesday 15 March

aslef.org.uk

Tube strike: London Underground drivers to walk out on Budget Day https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64733213

This follows a ballot of LU ASLEF Members with results:

Number of individuals who were entitled to vote in the ballot 2045
Number of votes cast in the ballot 1593
Votes cast in the ballot as a % of individuals who were entitled to vote 77.90%
ARE YOU PREPARED TO TAKE PART IN INDUSTRIAL ACTION CONSISTING OF A STRIKE? Number of spoilt or otherwise invalid voting papers returned 0
Result of Voting
Yes 1577 99.00%
No 16 1.00%
“Yes” votes as a % of individuals who were entitled to vote 77.11%

The result of the Government review into the TfL Pension Fund will be announced on Tuesday 28 February Friday 17 March

 

[Thirteen]

Is this the same dispute that the RMT and TSSA have had strikes previously?

 

[Facing Back]

I am sorry if this obvious. Are there proposed changes to conditions and pensions on the table, or is this purely the position that any such future changes need to be agreed?

 

[Mawkie]

I am sorry if this obvious. Are there proposed changes to conditions and pensions on the table, or is this purely the position that any such future changes need to be agreed?

Formal announcement on any pension changes was put back 1 month from end of Jan 23 to end of Feb 23.

Other, wide ranging, changes to conditions have been proposed and have been refused by both ASLEF and RMT reps.

 

[bramling]

I am sorry if this obvious. Are there proposed changes to conditions and pensions on the table, or is this purely the position that any such future changes need to be agreed?

The whole pensions thing has been brewing up for some while, ever since Johnson stuck his nose in off the back of Covid to upset the proverbial apple cart.

On top of that there are workstreams in place looking at the agreements and parameters drivers work to.

This could be a *very* bitter dispute if the pension review is invasive, but for the time being it’s a case of wait and see. One presumes ASLEF are getting a mandate in there in anticipation.

It’s worth adding that any plan to reform LU pensions is entirely politically driven. TFL had no intention of doing it, the issue has only arisen as a condition of TFL’s funding package. Hence this will have the government’s fingerprints all over it, even more so than the various mainline disputes.

 

[Facing Back]

ok thanks both

 

[Dstock7080]

One presumes ASLEF are getting a mandate in there in anticipation.

ASLEF have had a successful mandate from LU Members since March 2021, this is the latest renewal.

 

[43066]

It’s worth adding that any plan to reform LU pensions is entirely politically driven. TFL had no intention of doing it, the issue has only arisen as a condition of TFL’s funding package. Hence this will have the government’s fingerprints all over it, even more so than the various mainline disputes.

As I understood it the TfL pension is in surplus so the pressing need for reform is unclear. Therefore this is entirely consistent with the government’s wider strategy of deliberately provoking/prolonging industrial disputes when it suits them, in this case with the added benefit of continuing the long running war with Khan.

In short, it’s just yet another distraction.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

How many tube drivers are ASLEF members? I always assumed that the tube was predominantly RMT.

 

[Mawkie]

How many tube drivers are ASLEF members? I always assumed that the tube was predominantly RMT.

It depends on the line (and even depot sometimes).

For actual numbers you can always check the ballots on the relevant union pages as they give the total numbers balloted - 2045 for Aslef as above. Off the top of my head, I seem remember around 1600 for RMT. (If you factor in CSA and other grades then RMT has circa 10k members on LU)

Note: There is an historical disproportionate representation in favour of ASLEF Reps on the Trains Functional Council.

 

[bramling]

As I understood it the TfL pension is in surplus so the pressing need for reform is unclear. Therefore this is entirely consistent with the government’s wider strategy of deliberately provoking/prolonging industrial disputes when it suits them, in this case with the added benefit of continuing the long running war with Khan.

In short, it’s just yet another distraction.

Exactly. Just another thing to distract from the long list of failures associated with this government and this prime minister. As I say, should anything invasive be proposed then this one will be every bit as bitter as the mainline disputes. IIRC this was something Johnson himself started, so another example of settling personal grudges rather than serious government.

 

[Bald Rick]

Seems odd that the RMT action on the ’big’ railway was announced as being scheduled for 16 March specifically to allow all those going to an organised demonstration in central London on the 15th to get there and back.… and ASLEF have scuppered that!

 

[westv]

Why has a strike been announced before the pensions announcement?

 

[Mawkie]

Why has a strike been announced before the pensions announcement?

RMT have had numerous strikes running up to the pensions decision being made, and ASLEF reps always made the assertion that 'no solid proposal has been made' so strikes were premature. Therefore I am baffled by this announcement as nothing seems to have changed (yet).

 

[Dstock7080]

Therefore I am baffled by this announcement as nothing seems to have changed (yet).

I’m sure a lot of ASLEF members are of the same opinion.

UPDATE: the Government decision on TfL Pension Fund delayed again until 17 March

 

[bengley]

How many tube drivers are ASLEF members? I always assumed that the tube was predominantly RMT.

70% ASLEF I believe at present

 

[Mojo]

For actual numbers you can always check the ballots on the relevant union pages as they give the total numbers balloted - 2045 for Aslef as above. Off the top of my head, I seem remember around 1600 for RMT. (If you factor in CSA and other grades then RMT has circa 10k members on LU)

70% ASLEF I believe at present

The last RMT ballot that only included Train Operators / Instructor Operators was in June 2021 and had 1,576 eligible to vote. Obviously you can't accurately compare the two because of the time difference and people leaving/joining the grades or changing unions, but from this crude calculation this is 3,621 members of recognised unions this is 44% RMT and 56% Aslef.

 

[Thirteen]

Isn't this the first time ASLEF has been on strike with LUL for a while?

 

[Dstock7080]

Isn't this the first time ASLEF has been on strike with LUL for a while?

Boxing Day 2015 was the last.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

Isn't this the first time ASLEF has been on strike with LUL for a while?

I'm pretty sure they were on strike on the Bakerloo line 2 weeks ago.

 

[Mojo]

I'm pretty sure they were on strike on the Bakerloo line 2 weeks ago.

The strike was called off

 

[Lewlew]

Why has a strike been announced before the pensions announcement?

It’s not just about pensions.

The main issues are a whole raft of changes to terms and conditions incoming. Aslef aren’t necessarily opposed to the changes but the way that the company are bringing them in. Aslef want negotiation and agreement on any proposed change but it seems that the company are going to put up quite the fight and force things upon us.

 

[Mawkie]

It’s not just about pensions.

The main issues are a whole raft of changes to terms and conditions incoming. Aslef aren’t necessarily opposed to the changes but the way that the company are bringing them in. Aslef want negotiation and agreement on any proposed change but it seems that the company are going to put up quite the fight and force things upon us.

But the proposals for changes to the Framework agreements (some of which are outrageous in my opinion) also haven't been implemented. Haven't the proposals been put up through the machinery now?

At the end of the day, they had a ballot (more than one) and achieved the mandate, so they can do what they want of course.

 

[Lewlew]

But the proposals for changes to the Framework agreements (some of which are outrageous in my opinion) also haven't been implemented. Haven't the proposals been put up through the machinery now?

At the end of the day, they had a ballot (more than one) and achieved the mandate, so they can do what they want of course.

It’s all gone very quiet from both sides! There were supposedly meetings last week and this week but not heard a peep of what actually happened.

 

[Mojo]

RMT have announced their members will be on strike the same day.

The pensions announcement has also been deferred again until 17th March.

 

[bramling]

RMT have announced their members will be on strike the same day.

That being the case, I can’t see much running on LU at all then.

The pensions announcement has also been deferred again until 17th March.

Just to pee off the staff even more…

 

[Goldfish62]

That being the case, I can’t see much running on LU at all then.

Total shutdown I'd have thought.

 

[Florence Rox]

I am a member of the RMT working in a busy central London station. I am a very reluctant striker and would never strike for better pay or pensions. My reason for striking is to fight the job cuts which are happening all over London. These cuts mean that, at my station and several others that I know about, 75% of shifts either start at 5am or finish at 1am, as opposed to around 40% at present. Several stations will be on minimum numbers for a large part of the day, so if there is unexpected staff sickness, they would either shut the station (unlikely), procure staff from another station to make up numbers (also unlikely), get "ambassadors" or Special Requirement Teams staff to cover (possible), or pressurise staff to come in early/stay late/come in on rest days (most likely). At any time, there are nearly always staff off sick and the new numbers make no allowance for this, so the whole system is likely to implode in on itself.

 

[endicomark69@g]

The terms and conditions issues are well understood - the Company really are skint and DfT/Treasury want their pound of flesh. That conditions at many locations are going to get a lot worse - and safety WILL get compromised - doesn't register as "their problem."

The further "deferrals" of the announcement on pensions tends to give the Govt game away - string the potential starting gun for action out and see if they can raise the temp still further by constantly braying on about "but no proposals have been published yet so Aslef/RMT are being mean to the travelling public etc etc" and thinking the public will get the point.

From a few convos recently, the feeling among my former colleagues is that's it's going to be toxic enough to light more than one touchpaper, and will be another Line-of-death issue even for those that don't normally back action.

Where this eventually goes with a Govt that's fine with Doctors and Nurses being on strike is probably quite predictable.

This seems to be exactly what this Govt specialises in - intractable conflict that the Unions can't back down on.

 

[bramling]

The terms and conditions issues are well understood - the Company really are skint and DfT/Treasury want their pound of flesh. That conditions at many locations are going to get a lot worse - and safety WILL get compromised - doesn't register as "their problem."

The further "deferrals" of the announcement on pensions tends to give the Govt game away - string the potential starting gun for action out and see if they can raise the temp still further by constantly braying on about "but no proposals have been published yet so Aslef/RMT are being mean to the travelling public etc etc" and thinking the public will get the point.

From a few convos recently, the feeling among my former colleagues is that's it's going to be toxic enough to light more than one touchpaper, and will be another Line-of-death issue even for those that don't normally back action.

Where this eventually goes with a Govt that's fine with Doctors and Nurses being on strike is probably quite predictable.

This seems to be exactly what this Govt specialises in - intractable conflict that the Unions can't back down on.

I suspect one issue is whether this government believes they can actually win the next election, which as time goes on is going to become an increasingly salient issue.

This then introduces a few possibilities:
* next election totally written off, in which case all bets are off
* damage limitation, so expect to lose but by as small margin as possible
* go for winning

If the second or third of those is the strategy then they won’t be able to keep up the current attitude long-term, though no doubt at some point where will be a Sunak-style populist gimmick designed to attract votes.