East Coast May 2011 catering "improvements"

[jon0844]

I would have thought that you make it one price, as that's easier to manage and price up (and stops arguments) and you simply offer the at-seat delivery of the food 'free' to those who have paid for first class. Thus, you have another incentive to upgrade.

I can see the argument for a lower price if you've gone to get the food yourself, but the TOC is trying to get more people in first - and doing so should help, in theory, keep standard fares down (or at least more advance fares). I'm happy to benefit from lower fares when subsidised by those in first class!

 

[junglejames]

Regarding the difference in prices for hot food between 1st and standard, and also what its served on. On my last trip whilst sat in Standard, I went to get the curry from the buffet. After a bit of discussion between the staff, they told me it would be easier for me to sit in 1st class for it. So they allowed me to sit in first, and I had it waiter served on proper plates! Not bad considering there wasnt a restaurant car service onboard.
This is going to be depending on staff though. Dont expect it all the time!

Doesnt look like they are used to helpful passengers though. After i had finished i took the plate back up to the buffet. Afterall, as im passing the buffet, whats the point in leaving it on the table. They were extremely surprised somebody would do that. Thankful, but surprised.

 

[ApAp]

Regarding the difference in prices for hot food between 1st and standard, and also what its served on. On my last trip whilst sat in Standard, I went to get the curry from the buffet. After a bit of discussion between the staff, they told me it would be easier for me to sit in 1st class for it. So they allowed me to sit in first, and I had it waiter served on proper plates! Not bad considering there wasnt a restaurant car service onboard.
This is going to be depending on staff though. Dont expect it all the time!

Doesnt look like they are used to helpful passengers though. After i had finished i took the plate back up to the buffet. Afterall, as im passing the buffet, whats the point in leaving it on the table. They were extremely surprised somebody would do that. Thankful, but surprised.

Most certainly against East Coasts rules but it's nice when staff go the extra mile to look after the customer, particularly when you in return made their life easier by leaving your seat tidy when you returned to standard.

 

[silentone]

One thing NXEC and EC following it never promoted was that items from the 'First Class' at seat menu were also available (cheaper - which is wrong) for standard class at the buffet.

Although standard has to make do with a plastic tray and cutlery it is nice to get some freshly prepared food but you won't find it on a printed menu anywhere (except for the breakfast).

I agree, NXEC and EC have failed to promote the items are available in standard and relies on the crew to pass this on. I know some crews have taken it a step further and made their own menu's for the bar to display the products available.

I know the Breakfast is actually a smaller portion than the First Class version. The STD Breakfast doesn't get a mushroom, but all of this depends on each crew and their waste. If there are mushrooms going in the bin at the end of the day then the crew may as well put a mushroom in the portion. I don't think there is any variation on the other items offered. (The burger may be no cheese in standard).

I think after May people in Standard will lose the facility to buy the Chef prepared meals (no-one seems to have asked this question yet). I think the Lasagne, Korma & Vegetable Curry will stay, these are microwaved and available on all services without a Chef. They are very popular, and there is demand for them. The plastic container they were using for these meals were also recently changed to a cardboard container, it does hold the curry and things quite well. Not sure the reasoning behind the change, I suspect cost and also problems with putting the plastic containers in the bins (they won't and will not fit) Nobody has complained about these cardboard ones and they are slightly easier to carry.

I know some crews are harping on about loss of commission with this new complimentary meal offer. Personally I focus more on driving sales in Standard Class, that's where the money to be made is. Some have become too focused on delivering meals in First which in terms of a revenue stream will no longer exist from May. This isn't to say First Class passengers get less of a service on my train.

 

[jon0844]

Cardboard is easier to recycle too.

 

[ApAp]

I agree, NXEC and EC have failed to promote the items are available in standard and relies on the crew to pass this on. I know some crews have taken it a step further and made their own menu's for the bar to display the products available.

Good idea.

I know the Breakfast is actually a smaller portion than the First Class version. The STD Breakfast doesn't get a mushroom, but all of this depends on each crew and their waste. If there are mushrooms going in the bin at the end of the day then the crew may as well put a mushroom in the portion. I don't think there is any variation on the other items offered. (The burger may be no cheese in standard).

Can't stand mushrooms anyway, but last time I checked I think they're lacking the black pudding in standard too. I tend to just go for the bacon toastie (x2 if hungry) when in standard, when in first I go for the salmon but I've been told by multiple crews that this isn't available in standard.

I think after May people in Standard will lose the facility to buy the Chef prepared meals (no-one seems to have asked this question yet). I think the Lasagne, Korma & Vegetable Curry will stay, these are microwaved and available on all services without a Chef. They are very popular, and there is demand for them. The plastic container they were using for these meals were also recently changed to a cardboard container, it does hold the curry and things quite well. Not sure the reasoning behind the change, I suspect cost and also problems with putting the plastic containers in the bins (they won't and will not fit) Nobody has complained about these cardboard ones and they are slightly easier to carry.

I know some crews are harping on about loss of commission with this new complimentary meal offer. Personally I focus more on driving sales in Standard Class, that's where the money to be made is. Some have become too focused on delivering meals in First which in terms of a revenue stream will no longer exist from May. This isn't to say First Class passengers get less of a service on my train.

When are East Coast going to publish anything officially as to what this new service is going to consist of?

Also what will happen to the catering service in the lounge at KGX? You can buy most of the buffet food in the lounge, will this become complimentary?

I've asked a few staff before - back in the GNER days and they all denied commission, is this a new thing or just something they were uncomfortable to admit to?

 

[YorkshireRider]

I think commision was something GNER brought in sometime after i started in about 2004 but i could be wrong, tbh i dont even know how they work it out and i dont really worry about it. Its not that much and i find you cant have much influence on it, if your busy your busy and if your not your not. The union i believe have come to an agreement on a higher percentage on the revenue taken in standard. Heard the other day that a further 57 weekday services will lose a trolley service in standard when the timetable starts, thats in addition to the 8 trains which dont have one at prescent, think these will be mainly the Leeds and Newcastle terminators and i think its unlikley the new York, Lincoln and Newark services will convey a trolley either. This probably makes good business sense but might put a few customers backs up

 

[premier01]

I would have thought that you make it one price, as that's easier to manage and price up (and stops arguments) and you simply offer the at-seat delivery of the food 'free' to those who have paid for first class. Thus, you have another incentive to upgrade.

I can see the argument for a lower price if you've gone to get the food yourself, but the TOC is trying to get more people in first - and doing so should help, in theory, keep standard fares down (or at least more advance fares). I'm happy to benefit from lower fares when subsidised by those in first class!

I agree they should be the same prices-I know that there is an at seat service etc but just can't work out how a customer paying £200 for a 1st class York to KGX ticket travelling around 7 am get's no breakfast and if they want it have to pay more than a customer on a £55 advance standard ticket! That doesn't seem logical and should change to increase revenue in 1st-having said that don't approve of plans to remove at seat restaurant service and hope to try it before May some time!

 

[ApAp]

Any staff getting laid off with this 'enhanced' service or are those not needed (e.g. those on trains where the trolley is going to be scrapped) going to be redeployed elsewhere?

 

[ainsworth74]

Any staff getting laid off with this 'enhanced' service or are those not needed (e.g. those on trains where the trolley is going to be scrapped) going to be redeployed elsewhere?

Actually as I recall a member of staff on EC who is on here (silentone) has mentioned at some point in the past that more staff will find themselves being used on train as a result of the changes to catering so those that might not be needed due to reductions in trolley services will instead be redeployed. There won't be any forced redundancies anyway. Of course that might have changed (it was a while ago) or I could even be misremembering.

 

[amcluesent]

Today seen a FC restaurant car with the new catering area fitted. It's in the vestibule at the other end from the buffet and looked to be frame to hold three aircraft style catering trolleys with a plastic table on top. Not sure having it opposite the lavvy improves one's appetite

 

[williamn]

As far as I understood it from May the 1st class offer will be breakfast in the mornings and dinner in the evenigs. Does this mean that for some of the longet services (London to Inverness and Aberdeen) there will be no hot food available? Just a sandwich, like Virgin?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Today seen a FC restaurant car with the new catering area fitted. It's in the vestibule at the other end from the buffet and looked to be frame to hold three aircraft style catering trolleys with a plastic table on top. Not sure having it opposite the lavvy improves one's appetite

No. The modules are secured at the end of the vestibule, but the adjoining coaches (Coach M) have their toilets removed. Instead, the end of M nearest the kitchen has its top 2 tables replaced with a crew area fitted with a fridge at one side with service cuonter on top, and table and seats at the other side.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Today seen a FC restaurant car with the new catering area fitted. It's in the vestibule at the other end from the buffet and looked to be frame to hold three aircraft style catering trolleys with a plastic table on top. Not sure having it opposite the lavvy improves one's appetite

Its just a storage area which will be refrigderated for the drinks, its also a rest area for the crew. There isnt a toilet in that vestibule and never has been.

 

[amcluesent]

Had a chance for a proper look tonight; I only had half the picture this morning.

So, it looks to be on 225 -

Stadard Class seating
The cafe/bar
New area for FC food prep opposite 2 seats at a small table marked 'staff only'
Sliding door to divide from passenger seating
The "restaurant" and FC seating as before
Then there's the frame for three aircraft style catering trolleys in the vestibule (opposite the toilet)
Then there's the two remaining FC coaches

 

[Captain Chaos]

Do we know what the offering is likely to be on midday services? More specifically the Highland Chieftain? I plan on using it again sometime at the end of May using 1st class advance tickets. Is it going to be like Virgin whereby you get offered a sandwich, cake/biscuits and drink? If this is the case will it still be possible to buy any hot food of any description? 8hrs to Inverness is a long time and I can't see how being offered a sandwich and nothing else is really going to cut the mustard for such a long journey. Would I be correct in assuming that the food that used to be on offer in the at-seat service is going to be on the complimentary menu? It will be a real shame if it isn't because I have always purchased a meal when onboard this service in first class and would be sad to see it go.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Trains inbetween breakfast and dinner and after dinner will have hot sandwich options as well as cold sandwich options and also a selection of 5 different salads, they also will have an afternoon tea option of scones/cream cakes etc, as well as buscuits. Alcohol is supposed to be limited to 2 drinks per passenger but think that will depend on the crew, i certainly wont be refusing anymore unless the person has clearly had enough. They will have quiet coaches in first class from May, the most north coach by the buffet, J or K. If your journey is less than an hour however you will only be entitled to tea/coffee/water and buscuit.

 

[ainsworth74]

Trains inbetween breakfast and dinner and after dinner will have hot sandwich options as well as cold sandwich options and also a selection of 5 different salads, they also will have an afternoon tea option of scones/cream cakes etc, as well as buscuits.

What about services which start in between breakfast and dinner but will still be travelling at dinner time, say for instance the 12:00 KGX to INV which arrives at 20:11, will that be offering a dinner service at the appropriate time?

 

[YorkshireRider]

Not sure at the moment tbh, onboard chefs have been reduced by quite a number so will have to wait to see when all the diagrams are out to see which services will offer a full dinner service. Will be able to post more details early/mid April

 

[ainsworth74]

Ok, thanks for keeping us updated YorkshireRider as EC themselves seem unwilling to do!

 

[Blindtraveler]

yeh we look forward to these details. at the moment i cant say i'm thrilled by it! Are wel, looks like easyjet may win again from my point of view, edb to kgx is for me too long a run in standard although have done it, but afraid i feel fc is starting to look less appealing.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Thanks for the info YorkshireRider.

Free alcohol sounds good but I just hope that dinner will be available at the appropriate time as ainsworth said. 8hrs is a long wait to get something proper to eat.

 

[premier01]

Thanks for the info YorkshireRider.

Free alcohol sounds good but I just hope that dinner will be available at the appropriate time as ainsworth said. 8hrs is a long wait to get something proper to eat.

I have to agree that 8 hours is a long time and that a flight would seem better solution.

 

[amcluesent]

> If your journey is less than an hour however you will only be entitled to tea/coffee/water and buscuit. <

If true, that's going to be a red-rag to the PBO-KGX commuters. Definitely a two-tier system; pulling out of KGX anyone for PBO is fobbed off with scraps from the table as 'not worthy'! Perhaps those for York etc. will take sympathy and offer us a chip?

 

[Aictos]

> If your journey is less than an hour however you will only be entitled to tea/coffee/water and buscuit. <

If true, that's going to be a red-rag to the PBO-KGX commuters. Definitely a two-tier system; pulling out of KGX anyone for PBO is fobbed off with scraps from the table as 'not worthy'! Perhaps those for York etc. will take sympathy and offer us a chip?

It's better then nothing though, Virgin only offer water/tea/coffee/orange juice/biscuits/crisps on weekends and that's on services a lot further then Peterborough to Kings Cross so you ought to be grateful with what's on offer.

It's not that long on a train and you can still walk to the buffet yourself to get some food/drink if you really want it.

 

[amcluesent]

Hmm, how would this work?

Travel on FC PBO-KGX season and show that to the guard.

Buy an FC open return for say, KGX-LDS and show that to the catering staff to get your complimentary meal on Leeds service pulling out of KGX. However, every day you just happen to make a break of journey at PBO due to unexpected circumstances. Every 30 days reclaim unused portion of ticket and repeat...

 

[Aictos]

I still can't see why anyone can't just walk to the buffet, it's not like you're going to be refused service - it's just the free stuff that's restricted.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Quick update, been shown the weekend offer which is as follows;

DRINKS

English tea or coffee

Orange or Blackcurrent and apple juice
Water Still or Spk
Soft drinks

BREAKFAST

Your choice of filled croissant
Breakfast muffin

ALL DAY OFFER

Choice of sandwiches
Hand cooked crisps
Selection of biscuits or cakes


Also seen the offer for journeys under an hour (this is the same weekday or weekend);

DRINKS

English tea or coffee
Orange or apple and blackcurrent juice

BREAKFAST

Breakfast muffin or selection of buscuits

ALL DAY

Selection of buscuits or handcooked crisps


Not seen anything thats been confirmed on weekday offer yet, on a weekend anything not on the menu you will have to go to the buffet for, however during the week you can request it but must pay for it. Alchohol is not offered on a weekend or journeys under an hour.

 

[silentone]

The Inverness service may have a dinner service but the crews up there are being briefed separately on what level of service they will be providing - it is not yet confirmed. As I understand there have been no reductions in Chef numbers based in Inverness and I think only 2 less in Edinburgh but 2 wish to leave.

From what I've heard officially there is no 'limit' to how much you eat or drink but the meal service seems to focus mainly on a passenger having 1 meal. Staff will use there discretion with issuing more alcohol, there is a very in-depth new service delivery method and they are going to quite the extreme of providing service delivery methods for each train which will work the route in May.

Weekday menu's are still being finalised but it seems breakfast is the usual, salads at lunch and burgers in the Evening.

The complimentary sandwiches which will be offered look to be the same as the one's you purchase onboard now. The Scone's are very large and filled with fresh cream & jam - they look identical to the cream scones you can get in the likes of Asda & Tesco.

Proposed Re-instatement of Eurostar sets
It has been discussed and proposed at length that Eurostar sets will return to the route, however there are a number of challenges, including stabling and therefore East Coast are no longer looking at having Eurostar sets return to the route.

Proposed Pendolino set
East Coast have agreed to operate an 11 car Pendolino set, if it comes at no financial cost to them. Believe it or not but this has all come about at Virgin's request!! This set will not be on the route for May. Discussions are ongoing (including some recently) and no definitive end result has been reached.

There's also been some more info revealed about the future franchise, it does seem like 'East Coast' may actually make a bid themselves!

 

[ainsworth74]

Once again thanks for the updates guys. One question (which you might not have the answer to yet!) what sort of times are we looking at for the different meals, so what times is breakfast, lunch and dinner?