Class 717 at Farringdon

[purple-Azumas]

Annoyingly was on the wrong platform so couldn't see the departure boards ...

Yesterday (22/2) at about 15:44 (might have been a couple of mins before) I saw a Great Northern Class 717 (unit 717014) pass through Farringdon. I'm pretty sure it stopped, picked up/dopped off passengers and carried on, though must admit I only looked up as I saw it leaving.

I can't seem to find any service on RTT which it could be, and it's never something I've seen in the TL core before. Not very knowledgeable at all on route/traction knowledge required to operate a service, but can't see why GTR would train drivers on this traction through the core as surely there's plentiful 700s to operate all TL services.

Would this be a regularly working, or is it a one-off? What reason would there be to operate such a unit in this way? Is there any specific/different training that would be required if it was a TL driver in a 'GN' unit? And finally, would/could ATO have been enabled on this train? I'm assuming the answer to the last one is a no!

Apologies is this should go in 'Allocation, Diagrams and Timetables' - I'm more interested in the 'why' rather than the 'what service' so decided it was best placed here.

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[3973EXL]

Realtime Trains | 5Z17 1523 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Three Bridges Tl Up Depot | 22/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z17 1523 departure from Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Three Bridges Tl Up Depot on 22/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Z18 2230 Three Bridges Tl Up Depot to Hornsey E.M.U.D. | 22/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z18 2230 departure from Three Bridges Tl Up Depot to Hornsey E.M.U.D. on 22/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Peter0124]

Likely a one off.

It also looks like it (or a different unit) returned back north to Hornsey that night. No idea why it ran.

Quite a lot of rare activity in the core yesterday going by this. I believe 5E88/5O88 were 387s if someone can confirm that?

 

[class717]

Annoyingly was on the wrong platform so couldn't see the departure boards ...

Yesterday (22/2) at about 15:44 (might have been a couple of mins before) I saw a Great Northern Class 717 (unit 717014) pass through Farringdon. I'm pretty sure it stopped, picked up/dopped off passengers and carried on, though must admit I only looked up as I saw it leaving.

I can't seem to find any service on RTT which it could be, and it's never something I've seen in the TL core before. Not very knowledgeable at all on route/traction knowledge required to operate a service, but can't see why GTR would train drivers on this traction through the core as surely there's plentiful 700s to operate all TL services.

Would this be a regularly working, or is it a one-off? What reason would there be to operate such a unit in this way? Is there any specific/different training that would be required if it was a TL driver in a 'GN' unit? And finally, would/could ATO have been enabled on this train? I'm assuming the answer to the last one is a no!

Apologies is this should go in 'Allocation, Diagrams and Timetables' - I'm more interested in the 'why' rather than the 'what service' so decided it was best placed here.

Thanks in advance for the help!

It was moved to go to the lathe at TB, Hornsey lathe is being rebuilt

 

[Fenchurch SP]

Annoyingly was on the wrong platform so couldn't see the departure boards ...

Yesterday (22/2) at about 15:44 (might have been a couple of mins before) I saw a Great Northern Class 717 (unit 717014) pass through Farringdon. I'm pretty sure it stopped, picked up/dopped off passengers and carried on, though must admit I only looked up as I saw it leaving.

I can't seem to find any service on RTT which it could be, and it's never something I've seen in the TL core before.

It was going to Three Bridges for maintenance reasons (Don't know what specifically)

Realtime Trains | 5Z17 1523 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Three Bridges Tl Up Depot | 22/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z17 1523 departure from Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Three Bridges Tl Up Depot on 22/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[class717]

Annoyingly was on the wrong platform so couldn't see the departure boards ...

Yesterday (22/2) at about 15:44 (might have been a couple of mins before) I saw a Great Northern Class 717 (unit 717014) pass through Farringdon. I'm pretty sure it stopped, picked up/dopped off passengers and carried on, though must admit I only looked up as I saw it leaving.

I can't seem to find any service on RTT which it could be, and it's never something I've seen in the TL core before. Not very knowledgeable at all on route/traction knowledge required to operate a service, but can't see why GTR would train drivers on this traction through the core as surely there's plentiful 700s to operate all TL services.

Would this be a regularly working, or is it a one-off? What reason would there be to operate such a unit in this way? Is there any specific/different training that would be required if it was a TL driver in a 'GN' unit? And finally, would/could ATO have been enabled on this train? I'm assuming the answer to the last one is a no!

Apologies is this should go in 'Allocation, Diagrams and Timetables' - I'm more interested in the 'why' rather than the 'what service' so decided it was best placed here.

Thanks in advance for the help!

I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more moves like this, Hornsey Lathe is out until May 2023. Yes there is different training for 717s and 700s. There is no ATO facility on the 717s, so no, although there is the same auto traction changeover system as on 700s.

 

[Peter0124]

On a side note, does anyone know why 387s have been running empty through the core quite often in the last few months? I have always wondered why but never found an answer.

 

[class717]

On a side note, does anyone know why 387s have been running empty through the core quite often in the last few months? I have always wondered why but never found an answer.

I would assume it’s for the same reason, to use lathe at Selhurst

 

[purple-Azumas]

Realtime Trains | 5Z17 1523 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Three Bridges Tl Up Depot | 22/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z17 1523 departure from Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Three Bridges Tl Up Depot on 22/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Z18 2230 Three Bridges Tl Up Depot to Hornsey E.M.U.D. | 22/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z18 2230 departure from Three Bridges Tl Up Depot to Hornsey E.M.U.D. on 22/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Likely a one off.

It also looks like it (or a different unit) returned back north to Hornsey that night. No idea why it ran.

Quite a lot of rare activity in the core yesterday going by this. I believe 5E88/5O88 were 387s if someone can confirm that?

It was moved to go to the lathe at TB, Hornsey lathe is being rebuilt

It was going to Three Bridges for maintenance reasons (Don't know what specifically)

Realtime Trains | 5Z17 1523 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Three Bridges Tl Up Depot | 22/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z17 1523 departure from Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Three Bridges Tl Up Depot on 22/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Thanks all! Serves me right for not looking properly!

 

[lumitumey12345]

On a side note, does anyone know why 387s have been running empty through the core quite often in the last few months? I have always wondered why but never found an answer.

Is it even possible for anything that's not a 700 to run through the core? Considering the ATO.

 

[Class455]

I saw 717004 passing Norwood Junction last night, took me by surprise at first but then realised it was returning from the lathe at Three Bridges

 

[Peter0124]

Is it even possible for anything that's not a 700 to run through the core? Considering the ATO.

387s have definitely ran through. Not in passenger service though.

 

[zwk500]

Is it even possible for anything that's not a 700 to run through the core? Considering the ATO.

It's possible, and one of the reasons why the Conventional Signalling was left in under the ETCS L2 Overlay, although it obviously impacts on capacity if non-ETCS trains are using the core, hence why they tend to do it outside of peak hours.

 

[Doomotron]

Annoyingly was on the wrong platform so couldn't see the departure boards ...

Yesterday (22/2) at about 15:44 (might have been a couple of mins before) I saw a Great Northern Class 717 (unit 717014) pass through Farringdon. I'm pretty sure it stopped, picked up/dopped off passengers and carried on, though must admit I only looked up as I saw it leaving.

I can't seem to find any service on RTT which it could be, and it's never something I've seen in the TL core before. Not very knowledgeable at all on route/traction knowledge required to operate a service, but can't see why GTR would train drivers on this traction through the core as surely there's plentiful 700s to operate all TL services.

Would this be a regularly working, or is it a one-off? What reason would there be to operate such a unit in this way? Is there any specific/different training that would be required if it was a TL driver in a 'GN' unit? And finally, would/could ATO have been enabled on this train? I'm assuming the answer to the last one is a no!

Apologies is this should go in 'Allocation, Diagrams and Timetables' - I'm more interested in the 'why' rather than the 'what service' so decided it was best placed here.

Thanks in advance for the help!

You say it might have picked up passengers... Are you sure? I'd expect not but it could be an interesting situation if it did.

 

[william.martin]

You say it might have picked up passengers... Are you sure? I'd expect not but it could be an interesting situation if it did.

It shows that it was booked to stop there on RTT so maybe it could of been to do with train crew or pathing.
For the thread owners attention: Did you witness the doors open?

 

[Stephen42]

You say it might have picked up passengers... Are you sure? I'd expect not but it could be an interesting situation if it did.

Suspect it's that the train stopping at Farringdon to lower pantograph and then departing can look similar to a passenger stop if on the opposite platform and focusing elsewhere. As it's a rare move the driver might have to switch manually so would be stationary roughly the usual amount of time.

 

[Doomotron]

Aren't 717s limited to 30 on third rail? The journey to Three Bridges must have taken a while!

 

[purple-Azumas]

Suspect it's that the train stopping at Farringdon to lower pantograph and then departing can look similar to a passenger stop if on the opposite platform and focusing elsewhere. As it's a rare move the driver might have to switch manually so would be stationary roughly the usual amount of time.

Yep, think that's right. I was looking down and then looked up and saw it. Wasn't moving and didn't leave instantly so just assumed that it was picking up/setting down. Certainly looks like that wasn't the case.

 

[Mollman]

Aren't 717s limited to 30 on third rail? The journey to Three Bridges must have taken a while!

Perhaps it is a software thing that can be overridden

 

[OscarH]

Would the 717 have run using the ETCS in-cab given they support it, or would it have just been using the overlay signals

 

[315801]

As far as I know any trains which run on the moorgate service are automatically limited to 30 mph in the tunnels, this strict speed limit was introduced after the horrific accident at moorgate involving 1938 stock.

 

[class717]

Would the 717 have run using the ETCS in-cab given they support it, or would it have just been using the overlay signals

It would have been using signals. There aren’t many drivers trained on ETCS on the 717s.

 

[notverydeep]

387s have definitely ran through. Not in passenger service though.

I have ridden on all of the first 29 of the 387/1 sub-class through the Thameslink core in passenger service!

To be fair, it was a while ago now though and I have since ridden on the same 29 units on Great Northern...

 

[AlexanderC]

Quite a few 387s have been having the interior refurbishment at Selhurst which is why they go through the core. I know at least 4-6 have already been done.

 

[Peter0124]

Quite a few 387s have been having the interior refurbishment at Selhurst which is why they go through the core. I know at least 4-6 have already been done.

Do you know how many are left to do?

 

[AlexanderC]

If you’re talking about the whole project then 100s still. I have no idea about the 387s.

 

[Fincra5]

Yes... 387s do it regularly atm, partly for the Selhurst Lathe or Arura Modifications.

717s are cleared through and might need to use the Lathe at Three Brides, as Hornsey is still O.O.U... The 30mph Limiter can be disabled for this sort of move.

Is it even possible for anything that's not a 700 to run through the core? Considering the ATO.

 

[pc3087L]

Yes... 387s do it regularly atm, partly for the Selhurst Lathe or Arura Modifications. 717s are cleared through and might need to use the Lathe at Three Brides, as Hornsey is still O.O.U... The 30mph Limiter can be disabled for this sort of move.

Yes... 387s do it regularly atm, partly for the Selhurst Lathe or Arura Modifications. 717s are cleared through and might need to use the Lathe at Three Brides, as Hornsey is still O.O.U... The 30mph Limiter can be disabled for this sort of move.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2023 ==

717007 at Farringdon today.
Presumably this working

Realtime Trains | 5T69 1222 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Three Bridges Tl Up Depot | 03/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 5T69 1222 departure from Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Three Bridges Tl Up Depot on 03/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2023 ==

And thanks for the explanations upthread about the why’s & how’s. Quite a surprise