CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Jez]

197s have been working training runs to Carmarthen over the last few weeks, and also between Cardiff and Swansea. Usually 2 sets at a time on 2 diagrams.

Yes but there wouldnt be enough crew trained anytime close to May I wouldn't have thought.

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There's a reason they're keeping 8 153s and it's the Heart of Wales lineView attachment 129292
must be a shame for the Heart of Wales residents who don't get a new train while the rest of TfW does.

Yes thats correct. But I wouldnt be surprised if 197s get cleared for the HOWL so they can cover if needed. And Carmarthen and Shrewbury crew will eventually be trained. The 175s have been cleared for the HOWL for years but i can count on one hand the amount of occasions one has been in passenger service.

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Hopefully April for the Marches! Unsure on what services though.

I believe 153s are not long term though. I think it was said that eventually (after a reasonable period of time) that other stock would operate the services down there. Probably 197s.

Fingers crossed for April!

Yes I wouldnt be surprised if HOWL gets cleared for 197s but thats probably a long way off given they wont be booked for passenger services, not for years at least.

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Is it known yet when the last 175s will be removed from the North Wales-Manchester diagrams?

It would be interesting to know this and also when the very last 175 will be in service with TFW. Im guessing towards the end of the year. It will be sad to see them go as a 175 is probably the traction i most frequently ride on (although 153s and 150s have been more common when ive used the train in recent months but a 175 still turns up a good proportion of the time). I will have to plan my very last 175 trip!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Feb 2023 ==

The arrival of the 197s on services through Hereford is being very much looked forward to! Good chance I'll see fellow Herefordian @SuperLuke2334 on the first one that comes this way, I'll be keeping an eye out for the arrival of the new fleet for sure! Only a few more months until the May timetable change, I'm sure I will keep my patience going. The end of 150s popping up everywhere on the Marches route is coming!

someone on twitter was complaining about the 150s on the Marches being more common now than when ATW ran the service. Unfortunately I think its going to get worse before it gets better with so many 175s out of service. When they reach Hereford/Cardiff it will be a lot easier for me to ride a 197 as im in the South. But im still hoping to get up to Manchester to ride one soon.

 

[Krokodil]

The 175s have been cleared for the HOWL for years but i can count on one hand the amount of occasions one has been in passenger service.

I didn't realise that it had ever actually happened.

someone on twitter was complaining about the 150s on the Marches being more common now than when ATW ran the service.

No surprise when Chester doesn't have the capacity to maintain both 175 and 197 fleets at once so Canton is having to cover the shortage.

 

[Jez]

I didn't realise that it had ever actually happened.


No surprise when Chester doesn't have the capacity to maintain both 175 and 197 fleets at once so Canton is having to cover the shortage.

No booked workings for 175s on Heart of Wales but it has happened a few times. I remember one occasion there was a fault with the 153 due to work the mid afternoon HOWL service so the 175 due to work the Swanline did HOWL and the 153 worked to Cardiff to get it back to depot. There have been a few other occasions. I think the Royal Welsh Special to Builth Road has been worked by a 175 at least once too.

 

[childwallblues]

197009 worked the CTR-LIV on Saturday and started on the same service yesterday morning. However it was later replaced y a pair of 153s.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Yes I wouldnt be surprised if HOWL gets cleared for 197s

Believe the plan was to clear 197s anyway to use as a diversionary route to move stock if Marches is closed.

 

[Philip]

No booked workings for 175s on Heart of Wales but it has happened a few times. I remember one occasion there was a fault with the 153 due to work the mid afternoon HOWL service so the 175 due to work the Swanline did HOWL and the 153 worked to Cardiff to get it back to depot. There have been a few other occasions. I think the Royal Welsh Special to Builth Road has been worked by a 175 at least once too.

I can remember reading about some 175s working the HOWL line around Easter time in 2007, there was a photo of one of the two-car units on it. Seem to remember it was to do with some show that was on at the time in that area.

 

[emoaconr]

I can remember reading about some 175s working the HOWL line around Easter time in 2007, there was a photo of one of the two-car units on it. Seem to remember it was to do with some show that was on at the time in that area.

The annual Royal Welsh Show in Llanelwedd nr Builth? The National Eisteddfod would be the other candidate, but has only been in Montgomeryshire in 2004 and 2016.

 

[Express380]

For anyone wanting to know the 197 diagrams starting in May here they are linked below (In addition to all other TFW stock) Main features I can see is there is at least one Swanline for a 197 as well as services from Holyhead to Cardiff, Cardiff - llanelli starting at Cardiff and Chester - Crewe shuttle but feel free to look for yourselves

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yesterday Monday 20/02/2023 I saw 197018 at Bridgend at around 16:10 heading East after a pause, presumably crew training ?.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

The 197 is a good train however it's better for short distance journeys rather than long distances journeys. I do like the 197. I had 197015 from Manchester International Airport to Chester on 1D38 (20/2/23) and although it was busy throughout to Chester it was an nice experience. Seats are fine, some by windows some not however. WiFi, plugs and USB plugs. One toilet in it and a galley for hot food/drink which could of been used for more seats for example. Information screes are good. Luggage space is good. Tray tables are good and seat reservations as well. Some photos included.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Yesterday Monday 20/02/2023 I saw 197018 at Bridgend at around 16:10 heading East after a pause, presumably crew training ?.

Yes it would be crew training.

 

[Philip]

For anyone wanting to know the 197 diagrams starting in May here they are linked below (In addition to all other TFW stock) Main features I can see is there is at least one Swanline for a 197 as well as services from Holyhead to Cardiff, Cardiff - llanelli starting at Cardiff and Chester - Crewe shuttle but feel free to look for yourselves

Interesting, thanks for sharing. At this point no 197s are planned for any Manchester-South Wales workings from 22nd May or from September, although I guess they'll gradually be introduced within the May-December timetable period depending on crew training and availability, rather than a full scale introduction in December?

It shows 18 175s diagrams from May, plus probably 2-3 more needed for maintenance, so perhaps they're expecting to send 6 or 7 units back to the leasing company between now and when the new timetable starts?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Thanks for that, it looks like a big increase! Hopefully more units will enter service thick and fast now.

 

[Jez]

For anyone wanting to know the 197 diagrams starting in May here they are linked below (In addition to all other TFW stock) Main features I can see is there is at least one Swanline for a 197 as well as services from Holyhead to Cardiff, Cardiff - llanelli starting at Cardiff and Chester - Crewe shuttle but feel free to look for yourselves

thanks for posting those.

 

[Kite159]

Good that it seems the Crewe - Chester shuttles seem to be pairs, as those trains do get busy, especially when Avanti cancel a voyager.

 

[Express380]

Good that it seems the Crewe - Chester shuttles seem to be pairs, as those trains do get busy, especially when Avanti cancel a voyager.

Unless I'm reading the diagram wrong it appears to be a single unit under diagram 105 with only a handful being pairs will be interesting if the capacity is enough

Interesting, thanks for sharing. At this point no 197s are planned for any Manchester-South Wales workings from 22nd May or from September, although I guess they'll gradually be introduced within the May-December timetable period depending on crew training and availability, rather than a full scale introduction in December?

It shows 18 175s diagrams from May, plus probably 2-3 more needed for maintenance, so perhaps they're expecting to send 6 or 7 units back to the leasing company between now and when the new timetable starts?

No problem I'd say that's highly likely just appears that when the new diagrams start they appear to 175s

Thanks for that, it looks like a big increase! Hopefully more units will enter service thick and fast now.

No problem and I'm hoping that will see a nice increase soon despite my enjoyment of Sprinters and 175s!

 

[Kite159]

Unless I'm reading the diagram wrong it appears to be a single unit under diagram 105 with only a handful being pairs will be interesting if the capacity is enough

Although I only looked at the one for Saturday, which by far is the busiest day. I can remember last summer services being run by a quad 153 formation, and even 4 coaches wasn't quite enough with passengers having to stand, even in the front unit.

 

[60159]

For anyone wanting to know the 197 diagrams starting in May here they are linked below (In addition to all other TFW stock) Main features I can see is there is at least one Swanline for a 197 as well as services from Holyhead to Cardiff, Cardiff - llanelli starting at Cardiff and Chester - Crewe shuttle but feel free to look for yourselves

I’m obviously being stupid but having opened all 3 I only see local Cardiff routes with231s and 150/2s.Where am I going wrong?

 

[Sheridan]

A single 197 should do better on Crewe shuttles than a 153 pair, as the end doors on those mean it can take 3-4 minutes just to get passengers off and on with a 153 when busy. Capacity won’t be any better, but the two 153s are usually fine except when Avanti cancel a busy service or there is an event on.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I’m obviously being stupid but having opened all 3 I only see local Cardiff routes with231s and 150/2s.Where am I going wrong?

Scroll down further . The document contains all of TfWs current stock diagrams so you just have to keep going! The 197s are below the 153s if I remember correctly.

 

[60159]

Scroll down further . The document contains all of TfWs current stock diagrams so you just have to keep going! The 197s are below the 153s if I remember correctly.

Many thanks for that but still no success. I have 3 lists terminating at diagrams 319, 330 and 304 I think and all being valleys services.
I am a top class Luddite which is probably the explanation.
I probably won’t reach Wales this year so no problem as I’llhave this site, RTT and PTS to assist when required.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Many thanks for that but still no success. I have 3 lists terminating at diagrams 319, 330 and 304 I think and all being valleys services.
I am a top class Luddite which is probably the explanation.
I probably won’t reach Wales this year so no problem as I’llhave this site, RTT and PTS to assist when required.

Interesting, all of the stock diagrams are definitely in the Monday Friday document.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Many thanks for that but still no success. I have 3 lists terminating at diagrams 319, 330 and 304 I think and all being valleys services.
I am a top class Luddite which is probably the explanation.
I probably won’t reach Wales this year so no problem as I’llhave this site, RTT and PTS to assist when required.

I’m having the same issue

 

[Peter Sarf]

Interesting, all of the stock diagrams are definitely in the Monday Friday document.

I am getting as far as diagram MN 619 and 27,993 rows in Mon-Fri which seems to be the end - is that right ?.

But.

I’m obviously being stupid but having opened all 3 I only see local Cardiff routes with231s and 150/2s.Where am I going wrong?

I’m having the same issue

You two might be hitting :-
a download limit,
a memory limit,
an actual limit in number of rows allowed in Excel which was increased in newer versions of Excel,
a limit in software emulating Excel (like open office) OR
a limit in the browser version of Excel (where you view it online rather than downloading it and saving it then opening it).

I downloaded the files, virus checked them and then let my installed Excel chew on them.

 

[Jez]

So it seems all 170s and 769s will be gone by the May TT. It seems like 175s will be covering some 170 diagrams with the rest covered by Sprinters. And 231's on all Rhymney diagrams.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

So it seems all 170s and 769s will be gone by the May TT. It seems like 175s will be covering some 170 diagrams with the rest covered by Sprinters. And 231's on all Rhymney diagrams.

That seems to be the plan!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Didn’t work on my phone but opening on the Mac solved the issue.

to summarise from the May TT change on weekdays:

All 170s and 769s will be gone.

All Manchester Llandudno goes from 175 to 197

All Maesteg and Cheltenhams go from 170 to 175

Cardiff Ebbw Vale goes from 170s to 150s. Newport Crosskeys extended to Ebbw Vale and goes from 153s to 150s.

Crewe Chester goes over from 153 to 197. Crewe Shrewsbury and Pembrokes stay 153 for now.

Most non-67 Cardiff Holyheads go over from 175 to 197, except diagram including 09:22/19:41 from CDF which goes from 175 to 158!

Bidston Wrexham goes from using 2 150s for 1tph to 2 197s and 2 230s for 2tph, changing to 1 197 and 3 230s in September it would seem

some Cardiff Swansea stopping Swanline services, and a new Swansea Carmarthen shuttle booked for 197s

All non-67 Manchester Cardiffs/Milford Haven services remain booked for 175s

That’s the end of 175s booked in North Wales.

Diagrams involving Birmingham and the Cambrian remain untouched 158s.

 

[Topological]

Thanks for the digest TT-ONR-NRN

The proof will be in the order that 150s and 153s substitute for the booked 175s, be nice to think that the Marches won't be first choice for swaps. However, I think anyone who uses the Marches regularly will be ready for a continuation of the 150s and 153s.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Didn’t work on my phone but opening on the Mac solved the issue.

to summarise from the May TT change on weekdays:

All 170s and 769s will be gone.

All Manchester Llandudno goes from 175 to 197

All Maesteg and Cheltenhams go from 170 to 175

Cardiff Ebbw Vale goes from 170s to 150s. Newport Crosskeys extended to Ebbw Vale and goes from 153s to 150s.

Crewe Chester goes over from 153 to 197. Crewe Shrewsbury and Pembrokes stay 153 for now.

Most non-67 Cardiff Holyheads go over from 175 to 197, except diagram including 09:22/19:41 from CDF which goes from 175 to 158!

Bidston Wrexham goes from using 2 150s for 1tph to 2 197s and 2 230s for 2tph, changing to 1 197 and 3 230s in September it would seem

some Cardiff Swansea stopping Swanline services, and a new Swansea Carmarthen shuttle booked for 197s

All non-67 Manchester Cardiffs/Milford Haven services remain booked for 175s

That’s the end of 175s booked in North Wales.

Diagrams involving Birmingham and the Cambrian remain untouched 158s.

Just to point out, the 09.22 / 19.41 off Cardiff has been booked 158 for ages.

 

[Jez]

Thanks for the digest TT-ONR-NRN

The proof will be in the order that 150s and 153s substitute for the booked 175s, be nice to think that the Marches won't be first choice for swaps. However, I think anyone who uses the Marches regularly will be ready for a continuation of the 150s and 153s.

Fingers crossed Maesteg-Cheltenham will be where any Sprinters replace 175s rather than on the Marches from the May TT. There will be no booked workings for 150s in the North and the only 153s will be on the HOWL and Crewe-Shrewsbury local. So there is no reason any 150s need to work to Manchester/Holyhead unless of extreme disruption where nothing else is available.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Feb 2023 ==

Didn’t work on my phone but opening on the Mac solved the issue.

to summarise from the May TT change on weekdays:

All 170s and 769s will be gone.

All Manchester Llandudno goes from 175 to 197

All Maesteg and Cheltenhams go from 170 to 175

Cardiff Ebbw Vale goes from 170s to 150s. Newport Crosskeys extended to Ebbw Vale and goes from 153s to 150s.

Crewe Chester goes over from 153 to 197. Crewe Shrewsbury and Pembrokes stay 153 for now.

Most non-67 Cardiff Holyheads go over from 175 to 197, except diagram including 09:22/19:41 from CDF which goes from 175 to 158!

Bidston Wrexham goes from using 2 150s for 1tph to 2 197s and 2 230s for 2tph, changing to 1 197 and 3 230s in September it would seem

some Cardiff Swansea stopping Swanline services, and a new Swansea Carmarthen shuttle booked for 197s

All non-67 Manchester Cardiffs/Milford Haven services remain booked for 175s

That’s the end of 175s booked in North Wales.

Diagrams involving Birmingham and the Cambrian remain untouched 158s.

Thanks for the summary. Thats pretty much what I picked up from it too although I hadn't noticed a new Swansea-Carmarthen shuttle booked for a 197!

With 175s no long booked for any North Wales I wonder what arrangements will be in place for their maintenance given most will be working in the South on Cheltenham-Maesteg and Cardiff-Carmarthen/Milford with only 1 every 2 hours going to Crewe/Manchester. Will Canton take on their maintenance temporarily or is that not possible given they have their own specific requirements and are done at Chester.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Feb 2023 ==

Just to point out, the 09.22 / 19.41 off Cardiff has been booked 158 for ages.

Im guessing that one needs to remain booked as a 158 so that some of them continue to cycle between Canton and Machynlleth.