Northern TVMs selling Rovers and rangers

[Haywain]

I already find Northern's TVMs slow enough what with the 'artificial' need to send purchasers down the line of selecting trains of choice on routes where many users are simply going to be buying a flexible walk up type ticket.

Whilst I haven't used it (should have tried while killing time at Oxford Road yesterday) Northern TVMs now have a Quick Buy function.

 

[WesternLancer]

Whilst I haven't used it (should have tried while killing time at Oxford Road yesterday) Northern TVMs now have a Quick Buy function.

ah - thanks - I'll have to check that out.

 

[northernman]

In terms of general feedback here ref some of the points being raised - I think the operator has to strike a balance at the TVM between the info that can be given (maps etc) and the impact that could have at queueing time at the TVM. Whilst most forum users here will have an idea on area validity (or how to find it out) fir a rover - I would not fancy queuing behind someone who did not know spending a lot of time trying to work out which rover they wanted for what they wanted to do....

I already find Northern's TVMs slow enough what with the 'artificial' need to send purchasers down the line of selecting trains of choice on routes where many users are simply going to be buying a flexible walk up type ticket.

So I think directing people to other sources for some of the info is a reasonable compromise.

Thanks for your feedback, we are trying to strike a balance. Whilst I do understand the need to choose a train for a "quick issue" seems slow, its built that way to ensure that you can only buy a ticket for a train that exists to the required destination. For example if you try to buy a ticket to a station not served by a Sunday service, the machine wont let you.

 

[Llandudno]

Derbyshire Wayfarer no longer needs the sealed wallet.

********************
Agree this is excellent news from Northern. The issue I will have is that the Northern TVMs were removed from Sheffield many years ago and so I would need to go to Meadowhall. Even better of course if Northern would sell them on line - any plans for this ?

Yes could do with a Northern ticket machine at Sheffield so as to buy TfGM Wayfarer tickets seeing as though the staff at Sheffield Ticket Office refuse to sell them…!

 

[Wallsendmag]

Yes could do with a Northern ticket machine at Sheffield so as to buy TfGM Wayfarer tickets seeing as though the staff at Sheffield Ticket Office refuse to sell them…!

Thats the last thing to do, bringing all the machines up to a common standard is a better bet.

 

[sheff1]

Thats the last thing to do, bringing all the machines up to a common standard is a better bet.

If you mean EMR TVMs should sell rovers and rangers, I agree.

*********
As for the TfGM Wayfarer, I buy them without issue at my local corner shop via PayPoint. Unfortunately, the Derbyshire Wayfarer is not on PayPoint.

 

[Llandudno]

Thats the last thing to do, bringing all the machines up to a common standard is a better bet.

Agreed, but long would that take…!

 

[Starmill]

The London Overground and Avanti West Coast machines do now display a map for Rangers and Rovers, if there is one. Some products appear to have had their map retired, for example the Explore Wales Pass has had its map removed and replaced with the one for under-16 and under-11 free tickets, which is a different area.

 

[Haywain]

Agreed, but long would that take…!

It would be quicker than getting new machines. And whilst there are 25 or so TOCs, there are only 3 TVM suppliers, one of whom is already setting relevant benchmarks.

 

[Wallsendmag]

If you mean EMR TVMs should sell rovers and rangers, I agree.

*********
As for the TfGM Wayfarer, I buy them without issue at my local corner shop via PayPoint. Unfortunately, the Derbyshire Wayfarer is not on PayPoint.

No I mean all TVMs should be capable of offering the same tickets.

 

[Starmill]

Hi all, I wanted to update you that we are now in pilot at 10 machines for our new feature on Northern TVMs to sell Rovers and rangers. The pilot sites are:

• Frizinghall
• Crossflats
• Penistone
• Irlam
• Darwen
• Disley
• Burley in Wharfedale
• Manchester Piccadilly Concourse
• Wombwell

On the home screen there is a new rovers and ranger button, that will permit access to the products, which we have grouped by relevance of location to the TVM in the first instance, but then also the ability to buy any rover or ranger. Currently they can be bought for "today", there is no advance purchase feature (we are working on that). The information button gives further guidance and also a QR code which when scanned by a smartphone hands off to the NRE site for further details including things like validity map. The pilot will last for 4 weeks, and subject to passing accreditation, we will roll out the the rest of the Northern TVM fleet by the end of March. Feel free to have a look if you are passing one of these stations, and any feedback on this thread would be very welcome

Ian Borthwick, Retail Operations Manager, Northern

Hi Ian

My main suggestion would be that you probably want to develop some kind of logic to filter out any fares priced at £9,999.99 or with 'PAYG' or 'duplicate' in the name, as it's likely you'd find rolling this out with these all in the menu, and in some cases available to add to the basket, as currently, will be picked up in the accreditation. You probably also want to have a scan through and make sure you delist any products with operator-restricted retail, for example the c2c Senior Rovers, to prevent objections from arising.

Even if none of this were a concern though, from a user perspective, the rover menu is currently very, very long; removing most of these spurious products would help people find what they're looking for more quickly. To help get around this I believe that Avanti West Coast and London Overground have used a whitelist approach.

Cheers

 

[edgar13]

That's very good news, wish all machines across the country could do that, would have saved all those time trying to get London Overground/Elizabeth Line ticket office staff to understand what "East Yorkshire Round Robin" or "Lancashire Day Ranger" are
(Not blaming them for not knowing about these tickets though, at least they are willing to listen and help, unlike the St Pancras Thameslink ticket office which directly claimed they are unable to sell a Kent Rover!)

 

[mangyiscute]

To be clear does this include rangers such as the Thames Branches rangers (as in ones not served by northern)?

 

[Starmill]

To be clear does this include rangers such as the Thames Branches rangers (as in ones not served by northern)?

Yes. Currently it includes all or almost all of the rovers that are in the data, which is hundreds. Some of the rover groups won't have any products available, or only ones priced at £9,999.99.

 

[mangyiscute]

amazing! hopefully this leads to wider roll out everywhere, which would be superb, and allow TOCs to actually market these tickets without a massive asterix

 

[mikeg]

This is great news as it allows all passengers to avail of rangers and rovers, or at least will eventually.

Whilst I haven't used it (should have tried while killing time at Oxford Road yesterday) Northern TVMs now have a Quick Buy function.

Even better news as it gets round the problem of I just wanna buy a damn ticket, also allows sale for slower routes. In addition it presumably counteracts the problem with pseudo compulsory reservations?

 

[Starmill]

In addition it presumably counteracts the problem with pseudo compulsory reservations?

I don't think it does. If the train has the compulsory reservation marker set and there are no reservations available it will still tell you there are no tickets. A ticket office will allow you to bypass this if you ask, or you'd have to speak to a member of staff. If neither are available then I guess it would simply be a case of boarding the train without a ticket.

 

[mikeg]

Ah I was thinking quick buy would allow you to buy without an itinerary. This is something that really needs fixing

 

[Wallsendmag]

I don't think it does. If the train has the compulsory reservation marker set and there are no reservations available it will still tell you there are no tickets. A ticket office will allow you to bypass this if you ask, or you'd have to speak to a member of staff. If neither are available then I guess it would simply be a case of boarding the train without a ticket.

Theres an easy way around this, you just select a fare rather than a train and a fare.

 

[Watershed]

Theres an easy way around this, you just select a fare rather than a train and a fare.

Does "quick buy" let you do this?

It's dangerous for TVMs to completely prevent the sale of tickets on fully reserved "reservations compulsory" trains. It puts passengers at risk of wrongly being issued with a UFN/PF or even being prosecuted. How would the average person know they can actually buy a ticket, but they've got to go back to the start page to select a different mode?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Does "quick buy" let you do this?

It's dangerous for TVMs to completely prevent the sale of tickets on fully reserved "reservations compulsory" trains. It puts passengers at risk of wrongly being issued with a UFN/PF or even being prosecuted. How would the average person know they can actually buy a ticket, but they've got to go back to the start page to select a different mode?

The Popular Ticket Types option does. I haven't seen the Quick Buy yet.

 

[Watershed]

The Popular Ticket Types option does. I haven't seen the Quick Buy yet.

Popular Ticket Types is fine if you want that specific destination and ticket type. Not much use otherwise!

I've always thought that "popular destinations" would be a more useful way of doing that, as currently you end up with the same destination clogging up the list multiple times. The ticket type is also written in such small font that it takes longer working out which the right option is than if you selected the destination first, and then saw a list of ticket types.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Popular Ticket Types is fine if you want that specific destination and ticket type. Not much use otherwise!

I've always thought that "popular destinations" would be a more useful way of doing that, as currently you end up with the same destination clogging up the list multiple times. The ticket type is also written in such small font that it takes longer working out which the right option is than if you selected the destination first, and then saw a list of ticket types.

The popular destination option is also available on Flowbird TVMs.

 

[mangyiscute]

I guess what you can do is just buy the same ticket but for a different timed train, although how the average passenger is meant to know to do that I have no idea

 

[Wallsendmag]

I guess what you can do is just buy the same ticket but for a different timed train, although how the average passenger is meant to know to do that I have no idea

You don't need to buy a ticket for any specific train just click on the price on the journey planning screen and you'll get the ticket. You don't need to select a service Not sure how I can make this any clearer.

 

[mangyiscute]

You don't need to buy a ticket for any specific train just click on the price on the journey planning screen and you'll get the ticket. You don't need to select a service Not sure how I can make this any clearer.

I agree its clear to us, but if the average person sees that next to the train they want it says "sold out" or whatever it says, they will think they cannot travel on that train.

 

[Starmill]

Popular Ticket Types is fine if you want that specific destination and ticket type. Not much use otherwise!

You frequently get tickets nobody would want on those too, for example an Anytime Day Return on a day of the week when you can use the Off Peak Day Return on any service. They're not particularly useful as they're just a 'dumb' list of commonly sold tickets, and to that extent are even self-reinforcing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Feb 2023 ==

Does "quick buy" let you do this?

No. It will hide tickets it finds no services for.

 

[Wallsendmag]

You frequently get tickets nobody would want on those too, for example an Anytime Day Return on a day of the week when you can use the Off Peak Day Return on any service. They're not particularly useful as they're just a 'dumb' list of commonly sold tickets, and to that extent are even self-reinforcing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Feb 2023 ==


No. It will hide tickets it finds no services for.

A bit of a generalisation, we often check the most popular tickets from a station and update the lists. There is a Peak, Off Peak and also a Weekend/Bank Holiday list.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Hi all, I wanted to update you that we are now in pilot at 10 machines for our new feature on Northern TVMs to sell Rovers and rangers. The pilot sites are:

• Frizinghall
• Crossflats
• Penistone
• Irlam
• Darwen
• Disley
• Burley in Wharfedale
• Manchester Piccadilly Concourse
• Wombwell

On the home screen there is a new rovers and ranger button, that will permit access to the products, which we have grouped by relevance of location to the TVM in the first instance, but then also the ability to buy any rover or ranger. Currently they can be bought for "today", there is no advance purchase feature (we are working on that). The information button gives further guidance and also a QR code which when scanned by a smartphone hands off to the NRE site for further details including things like validity map. The pilot will last for 4 weeks, and subject to passing accreditation, we will roll out the the rest of the Northern TVM fleet by the end of March. Feel free to have a look if you are passing one of these stations, and any feedback on this thread would be very welcome

Ian Borthwick, Retail Operations Manager, Northern

Excellent, could Brighouse, Brockholes, Sowerby Bridge, Wakefield Kirkgate and Pontefract Monkhill be added to the trail too please?

One other question is would I be able to purchase a Freedom Travelpass (Bristol Zones ABCD), Freedom of Devon & Cornwall 3 out of 7 / 8 out of 15 day rangers and the West Yorkshire bus and train DaySaver from the Northern TVM's? The first two tickets is what I use when I'm working in the south west but prefer to purchase at the same time when buying other tickets.

 

[Tester]

Having been following this thread, I was interested to notice a 'Rovers and Rangers' button while collecting tickets from a London Overground machine.

I had a play and found that the offer was quite limited but did include 7 and 14 day All Line Rovers, however only standard class full fare (no first, child or railcard option).

It did cause me to wonder how many people drop a casual £818 into a TVM!