SWR Class 458 to be retained

[TT-ONR-NRN]

That’s a bit early in the morning for you

What do you mean

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jan 2023 ==

The diagrams were all over the place last week because of the Hook landslip.
1A39, 1353 Waterloo to Alton is booked 10-444, formed off 1W56, the 1020 ex Weymouth.
1A52, 1544 Alton to Waterloo is then booked to form 1W35, the 1735 to Weymouth.

1A11, 0653 Waterloo to Alton and 1A24, 0844 Alton to Waterloo are booked 5-444. It then works 2L25, 1012 to Basingstoke and 2L38, 1154 return before forming the rear portion of 1W69, the 1405 to Weymouth.

Because of the Hook landslip the Alton services have largely been running self contained as 8 or 12-450

10-444 is a real luxury. One to look out for when I take my dog to his favourite spot for a run, Epsom Downs. We usually take one of the few 5-444s from Farnham to Clapham and down

Returning to 458s, they were of course originally intended for the Alton line, and /5s have been known to work the line occasionally on Sundays. I’ve taken one from Woking to Farnham a few times.

 

[Goldfish62]

Returning to 458s, they were of course originally intended for the Alton line, and /5s have been known to work the line occasionally on Sundays. I’ve taken one from Woking to Farnham a few times.

They were actually ordered specifically for the Reading line. They first entered on the Alton line because due to their very poor reliability at the time the four track railway as far as Brookwood gave extra resilience in the event of a breakdown.

 

[nw1]

They were actually ordered specifically for the Reading line. They first entered on the Alton line because due to their very poor reliability at the time the four track railway as far as Brookwood gave extra resilience in the event of a breakdown.

How long did they actually run on the Alton line?

I did observe the stock workings on the Alton line in quite a bit of detail in both the 1997 and 1999 timetables, and for both of those the line was 100% slam-door (with a surprisingly high number of CIGs in 1997). So briefly in 1998?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jan 2023 ==

The diagrams were all over the place last week because of the Hook landslip.
1A39, 1353 Waterloo to Alton is booked 10-444, formed off 1W56, the 1020 ex Weymouth.
1A52, 1544 Alton to Waterloo is then booked to form 1W35, the 1735 to Weymouth.

Some interesting interworking there. I guess it's related to the previous Weymouth arrival (1W54?) splitting at Waterloo and forming two down Weymouths, so the next Weymouth (1W56) then has 'nowhere to go' and does a fill-in turn on an Alton? And then in reverse in the evening?

 

[swt_passenger]

OK - thanks. I will admit I have more knowledge of the pre-Covid workings, when the Saturday service on the xx09 and xx39 out of Waterloo was 100% 444, IIRC (but mixed 444/450 on Mon-Fri).

Pre 2020 you’d generally find most of the 10.444s on the direct via Guildford running in the opposite direction to the peak flow. 12.450s were diagrammed on the busiest services in the peak direction. In about 2018 or so I remember looking at the weekday diagramming, and although in theory about half the fast trains over the course of an entire weekday were 10.444, but if you happened to be a regular traveller at the same particular times in both peaks, am up and pm down you’d never see one.

 

[JonathanH]

How long did they actually run on the Alton line?

I did observe the stock workings on the Alton line in quite a bit of detail in both the 1997 and 1999 timetables, and for both of those the line was 100% slam-door (with a surprisingly high number of CIGs in 1997). So briefly in 1998?

The 458s took a while to get into service. My first ride on one was 8014+8010 between Woking and Guildford in March 2001 (during the period when the stations between Surbiton and Woking were covered by a Guildford terminator). Subsequent journeys in 2001 were on the Ascot to Guildford route, as part of their use off stabling at Farnham and Guildford.

They didn't come to the Reading line until the Summer of 2002.

 

[nw1]

The 458s took a while to get into service. My first ride on one was 8014+8010 between Woking and Guildford in March 2001 (during the period when the stations between Surbiton and Woking were covered by a Guildford terminator). Subsequent journeys in 2001 were on the Ascot to Guildford route, as part of their use off stabling at Farnham and Guildford.

They didn't come to the Reading line until the Summer of 2002.

OK thanks, for some strange reason I have a memory of the 458s being introduced in the (very) late 90s but it's quite possible I am completely wrong.

My one and only journey on a 458 was between Clapham Junction and Waterloo on an ex-Reading service on a wet morning sometime in the late 90s, early 00s (so the early 00s by the looks of it). For some reason I'd got off an SWML service at Clapham and switched to a Reading - and it wasn't specifically to "bag" a 458. I'm guessing disruption of some kind.

 

[Goldfish62]

Reported in the current issue of Modern Railways that the conversion programme has not been paused and that the fleet will be sent to Widnes through this year, starting this month.

So, have any moved this month, with just a few days left?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Reported in the current issue of Modern Railways that the conversion programme has not been paused and that the fleet will be sent to Widnes through this year, starting this month.

So, have any moved this month, with just a few days left?

Wonderful to hear.

 

[swr444]

Can’t imagine any would go until some 701s are in service, maybe the ones that are off lease? (Bar the ones which are going to be scrapped anyway)

 

[WarrenTManager]

Can’t imagine any would go until some 701s are in service, maybe the ones that are off lease? (Bar the ones which are going to be scrapped anyway)

Only 8507/17 at Widnes already and 8534 are off lease currently.

 

[Cletus]

Only 8507/17 at Widnes already and 8534 are off lease currently.

Can someone get 458534 back on lease? It's the only 458 I need

 

[swr444]

Can someone get 458534 back on lease? It's the only 458 I need

I think it’s currently being used as a donor unit but I may be wrong…

 

[Invincible]

Image courtesy of "Guard up front" on Instagram, showing one of the 458s at Widnes in SWR colours.

Post #954 27 Nov
So will the 2 refurbished 458s 8507/17 at Widnes be returning to SWR for tests?
Assuming there is a siding somewhere (safe from the grafitti artists) available to put them?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Reported in the current issue of Modern Railways that the conversion programme has not been paused and that the fleet will be sent to Widnes through this year, starting this month.

So, have any moved this month, with just a few days left?

I find it unbelievable in light of Treasury imposed challenges to meet next years Business Plan Budgets this project is continuing! SWR will be awash with stock once the 701s enter traffic.

 

[Invincible]

I find it unbelievable in light of Treasury imposed challenges to meet next years Business Plan Budgets this project is continuing! SWR will be awash with stock once the 701s enter traffic.

If all the 90 new 701s have not been built yet, it might be possible that cancelling the rest of the 701 order and Alstom continuing converting the 458s into express trains might be cheaper?

 

[Goldfish62]

If all the 90 new 701s have not been built yet, it might be possible that cancelling the rest of the 701 order and Alstom continuing converting the 458s into express trains might be cheaper?

I'd be very surprised if all the components to complete the built hadn't been ordered in by now if not already manufactured and/or in stock. Most units have been built. Surely it's far too late to cancel now.

 

[43096]

I'd be very surprised if all the components to complete the built hadn't been ordered in by now if not already manufactured and/or in stock. Most units have been built. Surely it's far too late to cancel now.

I’m astonished there isn’t a cancellation clause in the contract for non-performance by the manufacturer. There are surely grounds for using it.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Can someone get 458534 back on lease? It's the only 458 I need

I think it’s currently being used as a donor unit but I may be wrong…

You never know your luck.

It has donated some parts that were on long lead times but they have to be refitted for handback or return to service whichever way it pans out.

 

[fgwrich]

I find it unbelievable in light of Treasury imposed challenges to meet next years Business Plan Budgets this project is continuing! SWR will be awash with stock once the 701s enter traffic.

Indeed, I would have binned this off and sent the 458s to Newport some time ago.

 

[Cletus]

You never know your luck.

It has donated some parts that were on long lead times but they have to be refitted for handback or return to service whichever way it pans out.

I should have started trying to complete the 458's earlier! (Also need two SWR 455's which seem to have disappeared)

 

[WarrenTManager]

I should have started trying to complete the 458's earlier! (Also need two SWR 455's which seem to have disappeared)

Which 455s (apologies for the off topic)

 

[brad465]

I find it unbelievable in light of Treasury imposed challenges to meet next years Business Plan Budgets this project is continuing! SWR will be awash with stock once the 701s enter traffic.

This will be somewhat cynical, but considering how SWR serve many Tory held constituencies, including ones with prominent names (including Gove, Hunt, Raab and Braverman), with some seats vulnerable to Lib Dems (like Wimbledon and Esher), I wonder if the SWR network is one the Government want to try and preserve more than most, even if at the expense of other operators?

 

[swr444]

This will be somewhat cynical, but considering how SWR serve many Tory held constituencies, including ones with prominent names (including Gove, Hunt, Raab and Braverman), with some seats vulnerable to Lib Dems (like Wimbledon and Esher), I wonder if the SWR network is one the Government want to try and preserve more than most, even if at the expense of other operators?

I mean, did you not see the overtime ban timetable through Christmas? I doubt it.

 

[Cletus]

Which 455s (apologies for the off topic)

855 and 905.

 

[WarrenTManager]

855 and 905.

5855 has been scrapped. 5905 has a coach at Kilmarnock having some repairs and should be returned to traffic. It’s had a C4 overhaul and only at 106 of 525,000 miles overhaul mileage.

 

[Cletus]

5855 has been scrapped. 5905 has a coach at Kilmarnock having some repairs and should be returned to traffic. It’s had a C4 overhaul and only at 106 of 525,000 miles overhaul mileage.

Thanks for the info.
Definitely not getting 455855 then

 

[Lewlew]

Thanks for the info.
Definitely not getting 455855 then

You might do if you get a couple cans of beans

 

[Invincible]

I mean, did you not see the overtime ban timetable through Christmas? I doubt it.

SWR do not seem to be as dependant on overtime working as some Northern TOCs?.
SWR will probably get a good rate for when it's operating contract will be renewed soon? (Guess the SWR London suburban routes are still profitable with less commuting traveling than there was?)

I expect discussions on getting the built 701s into service in the suburban routes as in the 2023 plan), and what to do with refurbishing 458s as expresses, are continuing?
The SWR website still talks about 458s being refurbished.

Class 458/4 | Our Trains | South Western Railway

The Class 458/4 trains are four carriage trains developed from our previous four-carriage Class 458 trains

www.southwesternrailway.com

 

[swr444]

If you want to catch a 458 doing a dorking/hampton court, today is your day https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L23900/2023-02-01#allox_id=0

 

[Techniquest]

Thanks for the info.
Definitely not getting 455855 then

I was thinking of your previous post this morning, when I was typing up my wants list on my phone. I was disappointed to see 455855 features in my list, oh well never mind! So that's two of us not getting that one! I've had it for sight many years ago at least

I am way out of touch with what the SWR fleet looks like these days, except for knowing the 456s are all gone. I never did go and get all of those funky little things!