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SWR Class 458 to be retained

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infobleep

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JonathanH said:
They have been like that since day 1. It has always been impossible to make the floors of the 458s look clean.
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Goldfish62 said:
It got better with the transfer from SWT to SWR, but recently standards have been slipping.
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I have used them before but only on the Windsor lines I suspect and if something has been in service for a while as it's dirty, I wouldn't think twice.

However, as these were part of the project to run on the line to Haslemere, I was expecting the floor to be cleaner than it was tonight.

Still, I would rather have that and the 0:49 fast from Clapham Junction to Guildford than have a 450 and no 0:49 service.
 
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Invincible

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Benno said:
There is some truth to that "internal e-mail". The 458 refurb programme has been paused, but it is due to funding no longer being mad available for the conversion and not because of corrosion (Which was addressed when they were converted to five cars). With the potential surplus of 701s when fully in service there will be no need for the 458s as 450s will be able to cover the Portsmouth routes. The current 458s will remain on lease until the end of 2024 when a final decision will be made whether to resurrect the refurb project, or withdraw the units. The two four car conversions currently at Widnes will be returned to SWR for them to decide how to use them. Incidentally the 455s will also remain on lease until the end of 2024 which gives you some confidence (or lack of) about how long the introduction of the 701s might take. The 455s being withdrawn when there are 701s available to enter service.
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What's the fate of the two completed refurbished 458 four car express conversions?

So will the two completed refurbished 458 four car express conversions, with new interiors and reinstated first class, be evaluated on the Portsmouth main line, perhaps from Hastlemere for a couple of years. Until they either proceed with other conversions, or be withdrawn?
Or just stuck in a siding?.
 
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swr444

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infobleep said:
I have used them before but only on the Windsor lines I suspect and if something has been in service for a while as it's dirty, I wouldn't think twice.

However, as these were part of the project to run on the line to Haslemere, I was expecting the floor to be cleaner than it was tonight.

Still, I would rather have that and the 0:49 fast from Clapham Junction to Guildford than have a 450 and no 0:49 service.
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This isn’t a refurbed unit, it’s being run on the haslemere service and then taken to Farnham depot to be used on a morning peak service to Waterloo via camberley and ascot.
 
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infobleep

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swr444 said:
This isn’t a refurbed unit, it’s being run on the haslemere service and then taken to Farnham depot to be used on a morning peak service to Waterloo via camberley and ascot.
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Thanks for that info. So is that a Saturday morning peak service or does it stay there over the weekend until Monday?
 
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infobleep said:
I'm on my first class 458 journey to Haslemere. The 21:45 London Waterloo to Haslemere service.

It is only 5 coaches and it has no first class. I've not read all of the thread here so I'm sure first class or lack of it has been discussed.

The floor needs a good clean, as do the windows but the seat is reasonably comfortable. I haven't inspected the loo.

Certainly not as nice as the 450s, let alone 444s but I guess if they get people from A to B then job done.
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I much prefer a 458 turning up on the hounslow loop vs a 450 - the seats are so much more comfertable, and 2+2.

Of note with 444s - the hounslow loop now sees one regular 444 per day, with the 2322 Waterloo - Woking via Hounslow & Feltham.
 
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Is there any chance of more 444s for the faster Portsmouth Direct services (which I think is now only 1tph, which might make things easier)?

It seems to me that 444s are a better fit for the PDL fast (perhaps as 444/450 combos if a single 444 doesn't provide capacity, and insufficient 444s are available for pairs) than routes such as Portsmouth via Eastleigh or (when it eventually returns) the xx39 Poole stopper.

Remember PDL fasts always had "express" stock in the past: CORs, CIGs, 442s and (for a brief period) 444s. And if less people are travelling, presumably there is more chance of the lower-density 444s doing the job on the PDL.

The 458s could presumably run shorter-distance, slower services such as Waterloo-Haslemere slows (as suggested here?), Alton, etc.
 
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HamworthyGoods

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nw1 said:
Is there any chance of more 444s for the faster Portsmouth Direct services (which I think is now only 1tph, which might make things easier)?

It seems to me that 444s are a better fit for the PDL fast (perhaps as 444/450 combos if a single 444 doesn't provide capacity, and insufficient 444s are available for pairs) than routes such as Portsmouth via Eastleigh or (when it eventually returns) the xx39 Poole stopper.

Remember PDL fasts always had "express" stock in the past: CORs, CIGs, 442s and (for a brief period) 444s. And if less people are travelling, presumably there is more chance of the lower-density 444s doing the job on the PDL.

The 458s could presumably run shorter-distance, slower services such as Waterloo-Haslemere slows (as suggested here?), Alton, etc.
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444s are primarily used on Bournemouth Line fasts - this takes up about 2/3 of the fleet. The remaining 1/3 is used on Portsmouth Line fasts.

There are still 2tph Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo on the Direct (the 00 and 30 departure), during the off-peak one of these (the 00) is a semi-fast picking up some extra calls. In the peaks, contra-peaks and Saturdays 2tph fast remains. These services interwork at Waterloo to avoid having 67 minute turnaround (they have 37 minute turnarounds) so there are more sets of stock needed for the 1Ps than the available number of 444s so some are 450 formations.
 
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HamworthyGoods said:
444s are primarily used on Bournemouth Line fasts - this takes up about 2/3 of the fleet. The remaining 1/3 is used on Portsmouth Line fasts.
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Ah ok thanks, didn't realise that - I thought there were quite a few 444s on Portsmouth via Eastleigh.
HamworthyGoods said:
There are still 2tph Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo on the Direct (the 00 and 30 departure), during the off-peak one of these (the 00) is a semi-fast picking up some extra calls. In the peaks, contra-peaks and Saturdays 2tph fast remains. These services interwork at Waterloo to avoid having 67 minute turnaround (they have 37 minute turnarounds) so there are more sets of stock needed for the 1Ps than the available number of 444s so some are 450 formations.
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43096 said:
I’ve had 20+ years of them and think they’re the best trains the Reading line has had (although the CEPs we got occasionally aren far behind).
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Went on one of the ex 460 units last weekend and I was really impressed. It was almost like being on a 450 but with comfortable seats. Not convinced the 701s are an improvement more like a downgrade, especially as the ride on the Aventras is harsh and they have loads of rattles
 
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nw1 said:
Ah ok thanks, didn't realise that - I thought there were quite a few 444s on Portsmouth via Eastleigh.
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There are some but not as many now as there have been previously. There are some to Alton and on Basingstoke stoppers too, but not a huge number.
 
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TEW said:
There are some but not as many now as there have been previously. There are some to Alton and on Basingstoke stoppers too, but not a huge number.
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OK - thanks. I will admit I have more knowledge of the pre-Covid workings, when the Saturday service on the xx09 and xx39 out of Waterloo was 100% 444, IIRC (but mixed 444/450 on Mon-Fri).
 
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43096 said:
I’ve had 20+ years of them and think they’re the best trains the Reading line has had (although the CEPs we got occasionally aren far behind).
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I think the solid 458/0 service was the best offering. Very warm and welcoming interior compared to the /5s whose grabrails and lack of carpet (this most of all ruins them) which make them seem more like metro stock.
 
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TT-ONR-NRN said:
I think the solid 458/0 service was the best offering. Very warm and welcoming interior compared to the /5s whose grabrails and lack of carpet (this most of all ruins them) which make them seem more like metro stock.
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The 458/0s didn’t have carpets either!

The advantage of the 458/5s is the 2+2 seating and gap between the seats, which gives far more shoulder room. You don’t feel cramped in the seat even when they’re fully loaded.
 
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TEW said:
There are some but not as many now as there have been previously. There are some to Alton and on Basingstoke stoppers too, but not a huge number.
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That was only temporarily, Alton is back to 100% 450 since the Dec 22 timetable.
 
fgwrich

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Goldfish62 said:
Yes, the flooring was worse than what they have now and holes would regular appear in the lino. The current flooring is far more robust.
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I remember it bubbling up quite a bit too (Nothing new, it's quite noticeable on the 80X too), particularly around the toilets.
 
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WizCastro197 said:
What is booked, and what is eventually allotted, are two different things. Unless you are privy to booking information, there is no way to know what is or isn’t booked into a service.
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I know that, but the whole of that week it has been shown as either an 8 or 12 car 450. I did check the carriage notices and it is indeed booked a 10 444 so apologies
 
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swr444 said:
I know that, but the whole of that week it has been shown as either an 8 or 12 car 450.
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The 15:44 departure has been 450 for the past few days, but just because it has, doesn’t mean it is meant to run the service normally. I presume @TEW is privy to bookings information, otherwise how else would they have come to the conclusion a 444 is meant to run the service unless they’ve only seen the service run by a 444 a couple of times, equating to a conclusion it must be booked as a 444?
 
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The diagrams were all over the place last week because of the Hook landslip.
1A39, 1353 Waterloo to Alton is booked 10-444, formed off 1W56, the 1020 ex Weymouth.
1A52, 1544 Alton to Waterloo is then booked to form 1W35, the 1735 to Weymouth.

1A11, 0653 Waterloo to Alton and 1A24, 0844 Alton to Waterloo are booked 5-444. It then works 2L25, 1012 to Basingstoke and 2L38, 1154 return before forming the rear portion of 1W69, the 1405 to Weymouth.

Because of the Hook landslip the Alton services have largely been running self contained as 8 or 12-450
 
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