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Why Class 37s?

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D365

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IIRC, all of the class were originally maximum speed 90 mph, but were reduced to 80 some time in the 1990s. (Perhaps at about the same time as the class 20s were reduced from 75 to 60 mph?).
The top speed is specifically determined by which bogies are fitted. 'HGR' refurbished Class 37s can only be accommodated on the revised bogies, which is why all locos from 37401 upwards are 80mph. Unrefurbished Class 37s can use either type of bogie.
 
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12LDA28C

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I'm having trouble seeing what the point of a diesel-battery loco is - you charge it up and then when the battery runs dry you switch to diesel?

The same as a diesel - battery hybrid unit perhaps, as per the one currently being trialled at Chiltern Railways?
 

43096

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The top speed is specifically determined by which bogies are fitted. 'HGR' refurbished Class 37s can only be accommodated on the revised bogies, which is why all locos from 37401 upwards are 80mph. Unrefurbished Class 37s can use either type of bogie.
That’s not correct. 37601-612 (which are refurbished) have/had 90mph bogies from their planned use on Nightstar services.
 

ac6000cw

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You use the electricity to get you started quietly and with lots of torque, especially in urban areas, then can switch to diesel when it's cruising and away from people's houses.
...and energy recovery back into the battery during electric braking (particularly useful on trains with frequent stops or doing long descents).
 

Philip

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I do think character has a small part to play in their continued use, albeit not one of the strongest factors. The noise is impressive, a small amount of tradition does no harm and they are probably the most popular loco amongst enthusiasts.
 

43096

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I do think character has a small part to play in their continued use, albeit not one of the strongest factors. The noise is impressive, a small amount of tradition does no harm and they are probably the most popular loco amongst enthusiasts.
Character is irrelevant for a business that uses them.
 

12LDA28C

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I do think character has a small part to play in their continued use, albeit not one of the strongest factors. The noise is impressive, a small amount of tradition does no harm and they are probably the most popular loco amongst enthusiasts.

I'm not sure a loco's popularity amongst enthusiasts does (or should) have any bearing on a private company's commercial considerations.
 

Philip

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I'm not sure a loco's popularity amongst enthusiasts does (or should) have any bearing on a private company's commercial considerations.

The decision makers at the private companies might be keen to retain them for heritage/character reasons - they're human afterall! People dismiss the heritage aspect too easily sometimes.
 

43096

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The decision makers at the private companies might be keen to retain them for heritage/character reasons - they're human afterall! People dismiss the heritage aspect too easily sometimes.
Some people don’t understand how businesses work. Unless “heritage” contributes to bottom line profit, they’re not going to be interested.
 

trebor79

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I do think character has a small part to play in their continued use, albeit not one of the strongest factors. The noise is impressive, a small amount of tradition does no harm and they are probably the most popular loco amongst enthusiasts.
These factors will have absolutely zero influence on commercial decisions.
 

Philip

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These factors will have absolutely zero influence on commercial decisions.

I think they play a small part. Northern opted for 37s over 57s and 67s a few years ago to work some Cumbrian Coast services; FNW persisted with them on the North Wales Coast for a few years. I think heritage was a minor factor in both cases.
 
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43096

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I think they play a small part. Northern opted for 37s over 57s and 67s a few years ago to work some Cumbrian Coast services; FNW persisted with them on the North Wales Coast for a few years. I think heritage was a minor factor in both cases.
I think… I think… I think…

So guessing.
 

trebor79

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I think they play a small part. Northern opted for 37s over 57s and 67s a few years ago to work some Cumbrian Coast services; FNW persisted with them on the North Wales Coast for a few years. I think heritage was a minor factor in both cases.
Nope. 67 RA is too high for CC I think. It'll have everything to do with availability of locos able to work the line, compatible with the DBSO etc and nothing whatsoever to do with heritage.
 

43096

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Nope. 67 RA is too high for CC I think. It'll have everything to do with availability of locos able to work the line, compatible with the DBSO etc and nothing whatsoever to do with heritage.
Northern wanted to contract to one supplier and DRS offered the complete package including locos.
 

zwk500

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I think they play a small part.
They do not. Only charter operators consider heritage (and even then usually only certain locos).
Northern opted for 37s over 57s and 67s a few years ago to work some Cumbrian Coast services; FNW persisted with them on the North Wales Coast for a few years. I think heritage was a minor factor in both cases.
In both cases it was because 37s were available and there were drivers with the appropriate traction and route knowledge to drive them in the absence of any better unit.
 

LOL The Irony

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I'd be surprised if an MTU R4000 V12 (out of the HST) wouldn't fit. A few more horses, meets modern emission regulations, improved fuel consumption, same weight (give or take). That it hasn't been done suggests the cost of such an engine swap isn't worthwhile.
Aren't they getting kaput, hence one of the reasons why GWR are getting rid of the Castle sets?
 

D365

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That’s not correct. 37601-612 (which are refurbished) have/had 90mph bogies from their planned use on Nightstar services.
I was on a 37/6 a few weeks ago, but couldn’t quite remember what the bogie situation was. So I’m glad you pulled me up on that!
 

zwk500

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Quietly? A 37? o_O
That is an abomination! :D
The concept was originally used in the UK on an 800, IIRC. GWR fitted some of their sets with a battery replacing 1 genset to allow for less CO2 in urban areas and also for energy efficiency on the South Devon Banks.
 

Trainbike46

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The concept was originally used in the UK on an 800, IIRC. GWR fitted some of their sets with a battery replacing 1 genset to allow for less CO2 in urban areas and also for energy efficiency on the South Devon Banks.
What were the results of that trial? Will it be expanded to all 80x with diesel gensets?
 

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Alanko

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Without labouring this too much, because they're employed by businesses who make money and don't care for the enthusiast value or sound. Why have the 37s survived where 20s/31s/33s/47s etc etc have not (Rhetorical question)?

20s presumably suffer from having to operate in pairs, having to work out how to turn a loco somewhere or eventually have to run nose-first. I think they enjoyed a long tail on their careers because DRS built their operations off the back of them (when they were cheap ex-BR cast offs). Likewise Harry Needles was working out how to turn 20s into remotely operated shunters that could creep along at 5 mph. Innovation off the back of a cheap platform.


I gather Network Rail got rid of the last of their 31s when the wheel sets were worn out and it made no economic sense to replace them. This is why they were cast off cheaply.

I assume 33s are dogged by the same corrosion issues that appear to plague 26s and 27s. The Sulzer-y bits are good, but the BRCW metalwork is dodgy. I was looking at a 26 under restoration at Bo'ness recently and there were patches of filler almost continuously above the sole bar.
 

D6130

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I assume 33s are dogged by the same corrosion issues that appear to plague 26s and 27s. The Sulzer-y bits are good, but the BRCW metalwork is dodgy. I was looking at a 26 under restoration at Bo'ness recently and there were patches of filler almost continuously above the sole bar.
Are you sure that isn't because they've been sitting beside the Forth shore at Bo'ness for years? When the class 308 EMUs arrived in West Yorkshire, they were riddled with rust, having spent a few years beside the Thames estuary in the ex-MOD sidings at Pig's Bay, Shoeburyness.
 

Philip

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Some people don’t understand how businesses work. Unless “heritage” contributes to bottom line profit, they’re not going to be interested.

I think you'll find heritage is sometimes taken into consideration in commercial decisions.
 

richa2002

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I think you'll find heritage is sometimes taken into consideration in commercial decisions.
Agreed. It is perfectly possible for companies to value things other than profit. To what degree is all dependent on the company ethos but it is not unheard of. It's what makes us human after all and gives meaning rather than the blind pursuit of profit. Some companies realise that.
 

class68fan

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Are you sure that isn't because they've been sitting beside the Forth shore at Bo'ness for years? When the class 308 EMUs arrived in West Yorkshire, they were riddled with rust, having spent a few years beside the Thames estuary in the ex-MOD sidings at Pig's Bay, Shoeburyness.
Birmingham Rust & Corrosion Works. Inside gutters water traps etc. possible inferior steal used.
 

43096

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I think you'll find heritage is sometimes taken into consideration in commercial decisions.
Which is what I said. Or did you miss the second sentence? “Unless “heritage” contributes to bottom line profit, they’re not going to be interested.”
 

12LDA28C

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Aren't they getting kaput, hence one of the reasons why GWR are getting rid of the Castle sets?

I was under the impression that GWR had been told to make savings and a (relatively) painless way to do that was to withdraw the Castle sets and send the 769s off-lease. Nothing to do with the PCs being 'kaput'. Anyway, that's rather off-topic for this discussion.
 
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