Should lone passengers leave empty seat pairs free for groups?

[class68fan]

It is not just on trains that single people have the issue of where to sit.

It also happens in cafes, pubs, restaurants and theatres.

The rights and wrongs are the same - single people should have the right to sit where they want, and if a family need to sit together, they should make an appropriate reservation.

In a pub, I don't ming moving if the person asks nicely, and there is a suitable alternative seat available. But if the person asking fails the attitude test, then I can be just as stubborn as anyone else.

I am also annoyed with some theatres that won't let single people book a seat at the end of the row, because they would only be able to sell the seat next to you to another single person, and not a family or group.

The Germany way of joining others on tables being accepted is far better.

The other week I was on my own on a small table,in Uk , a group of lads asked if they could join me. I wished I were able to stay longer as we are having great interesting conversaton.

 

[Requeststop]

This is one HUGE bugbear of mine. A person, usually a member of the opposite sex, takes up all four seats at a table, by sitting in the aisle seat with luggage in the seat next to them and more luggage in the seat opposite them. I see this so often. It also happens again usually a lady of the opposite sex who sit in an aisle seat with luggage in the window seat.
What gets me is that the staff on the train do nothing at this outrageous behaviour. I have asked directly if they have paid for four seats.

This last happened to me on a service from Paddington to Heathrow on a very crowded service where one person refused to move the luggage (a handbag) claiming that they had to watch over the bag as it contained expensive gifts. The poor blighter couldn't hold the handbag in her lap. I just wish train crews would do something about this anti-social behaviour. It's just as bad as feet on seats.

 

[Starmill]

On a train which is approaching all seats taken I generally find that people travelling by themselves will naturally end up sitting right next to one another anyway, and that doing so is usually convivial. This can leave more space for groups.

I will occasionally offer to swap seats if I can to permit a group to be seated more closely together, particularly if they're less able to stand or if it allows children to sit closer to adults they're travelling with. If I'm asked politely to do this I will try to.

 

[nlogax]

Depends on the length of my journey on the service. In the scenario described anything less than about half an hour and I'm happy to stand. Beyond that I'll grab a seat by the window if available. If it's a parent and young child or elderly couple situation then I'm happy to stay standing until something else is available.

 

[Egg Centric]

usually a lady of the opposite sex

How many ladies of the same sex do you encounter?

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I remember once, when travelling in North America many years ago, the conductor forced single passengers to sit together saying double seats were reserved for couples.

It must have been a busier service with unreserved seats, possibly VIA Windsor-Toronto or Toronto-Niagara Falls - or Amtrak Houston-New Orleans or Chicago-Detroit, I can't remember which.

 

[LRV3004]

I was sat in a free double seat once while travelling from Carlisle to Preston. At Lancaster, an elderly couple boarded and I heard the lady say “you sit here and I’ll sit over here”. Hearing this, I offered my seat to the couple. When asked if I didn’t mind, I replied that it was no problem as I was getting off at Preston and I didn’t mind standing for no more than 15 minutes or so.
It’s all down to various things I reckon - the distance you’re travelling, whether you’re feeling in a generous mood, or whether the people who you will potentially be giving up your seat for are in need of the seat(s) such as elderly/pregnant/with children etc.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

How many ladies of the same sex do you encounter?

Please, let’s not start all that here!

 

[bramling]

There is certainly element of self entitlement there, with some families acting as if they believe they have a divine right to all sit together by default. It’s as if they think having children is somehow akin to a disability, rather than a lifestyle choice!

Indeed, especially as the current post-Covid thing seems to be that everything and everywhere is a playground, including for adults.

It would just be nice if people could generally conduct themselves in a manner that shows some awareness of their surroundings and doesn’t impose their choice of awful music/banal conversation/smelly food on everyone else in the carriage.

Sadly that approach seems to be regarded as old fashioned in 2023, so it’s no wonder that people respond by becoming less willing to move seats out of consideration for others.

My feelings exactly. It seems no good deed goes unpunished nowadays, so don’t bother doing good deeds anymore and one won’t be disappointed. In any case, I wouldn't ask someone else to move so I could sit together if part of a group, so don't really see why the reverse should apply.

 

[route101]

I remember coming out of Euston on a packed Glasgow bound service and I was on a off peak ticket without a reservation and someone wanted my seat and offered their reserved seat further up the train. I thought that was a bit cheeky and declined as the seat would be taken by time I had walked to find it.

On a easyjet flight the other night someone was sat in my window seat and offered me the aisle/middle seat. I reserved the window seat for a reason!

 

[Facing Back]

I remember coming out of Euston on a packed Glasgow bound service and I was on a off peak ticket without a reservation and someone wanted my seat and offered their reserved seat further up the train. I thought that was a bit cheeky and declined as the seat would be taken by time I had walked to find it.

On a easyjet flight the other night someone was sat in my window seat and offered me the aisle/middle seat. I reserved the window seat for a reason!

I assume the easyjet passenger moved?

 

[route101]

I assume the easyjet passenger moved?

Yes, but he was sitting in my window seat and seemed like he had a plan!

 

[Facing Back]

Yes, but he was sitting in my window seat and seemed like he had a plan!

cheeky sod but so long as he shifted no harm done I guess

 

[Egg Centric]

Please, let’s not start all that here!

It missed a smiley for some reason

 

[kristiang85]

As someone who travels both singly and as a couple, if I'm on my own and I see a couple trying to sit together I'll always offer my two seats if I'm alone and go to a single one elsewhere. Often the same courtesy is extended. I have also asked single travellers in the past if they mind moving to an opposite seat so we can sit together (as long as it is the seat opposite or directly in front or behind, and exactly the same seat set up for them), and it's never been a problem (and usually I offer them my snacks or something during the journey). Little things like that just make the world better really, in my view.

I do always try to get to trains early to avoid this happening, but it's not much use if you're joining halfway through a journey.

 

[PeterC]

I was sat in a bay of 4 last year on a train from Sheffield to Lincoln (I was on an East Midlands Rover), and I had a couple ask if they could sit at the table, I was happy to say OK as I was assuming they were referring to the 2 seats opposite me. WRONG, they wanted the bay to themselves for - wait for it - social distancing purposes . I politely declined and said they were welcome to sit opposite, but I was not moving. Another fellow passenger heard, and said to them that if they were that scared of being near others then maybe they should stay at home.

Not on a train but that reminds me of a similar incident. SWMBO and I sat down at an event many years ago. A large group came in just as it was starting, couldn't find seats together and sat either side of us. Then they complained that we we deliberately intruding on their group.

Getting strictly on topic I would never ask somebody to move so that we could sit together but I have found that people on the tube offer regularly.

 

[gabrielhj07]

I once travelled from Euston to Crewe on a packed 390, found myself a window airline seat nice and early. A large group then boarded and asked if they could pile the contents of the British Museum into the hitherto free seat. They lose the seat hogging accusations, and I get more space. Win-win!

 

[cuccir]

If train busy I will take isle seat of airline seats. If somebody want they can have window seat. On less busy train I sit in window seat of airline. but will move to isle if it will get busy at a later station. I dont want to get wedge in by a fatty or if travel to terminus wait to get out wile they finish email they keep writing for minutes.

Yeah, this is more or less what I'd do. In that original scenario if I'm anticipating the train getting busier I'd sit in a free aisle seat rather than taking the double, regardless as to whether there's a couple getting on after me. For example if I'm getting on an LNER at Durham for London... chances are those seats are being filled at Darlington anyway and I'd rather be in the aisle seat than on the window seat next to a stranger. Similarly, if I'm the first of 10 people getting onto a carriage and I can see there's only 3 doubles left then to be honest I'd probably take the aisle seat - again, I'd rather be there than stuck in the window next to someone.

There's an attitude thing here - I'd rather settle for the second best option (aisle seat next to someone) if going for the best option (window to myself) risks the worst option (window next to someone!). I think more people would rather take their chances at the best option and hope they can stick with it.

It's only if I think the train is getting quieter on the journey - say I'm boarding an LNER at King's Cross and we're due to depart in 2 mins so few more would be getting on - that I'd probably take the double.

 

[MattRat]

The problem with OPs question is that you risk scorn from whoever you sit with if you give the couple those seats. It shouldn't happen, as it's called PUBLIC transport, and if you wish to travel in private, you should use a car, but this is sadly the reality we live in.

Honestly, I'd probably let the couple past and then just stand on my own. Maybe I'll get lucky and some kind person will offer to let me sit next to them, but I am simply not risking sitting next to an angry stranger.

 

[al78]

It is not just on trains that single people have the issue of where to sit.

It also happens in cafes, pubs, restaurants and theatres.

The rights and wrongs are the same - single people should have the right to sit where they want, and if a family need to sit together, they should make an appropriate reservation.

In a pub, I don't ming moving if the person asks nicely, and there is a suitable alternative seat available. But if the person asking fails the attitude test, then I can be just as stubborn as anyone else.

I am also annoyed with some theatres that won't let single people book a seat at the end of the row, because they would only be able to sell the seat next to you to another single person, and not a family or group.

If I am in a cafe/pub/whatever on my own I make an effort to find a seat that isn't going to leave me occupying a table of four, so a seat with a table for two is where I normally sit. On trains I will find a seat where I don't have to sit next to someone if one is available, whether that is one of a group of four or an airline style seat. I do have the spatial awareness to observe if a group gets on that might like to sit together then I will offer my seat and move elsewhere, but this hasn't happened to me yet.

I get the impression single people are seen as a nuisance, which is the real reason why we get charged more for overnight accommodation even if we are occupying a room which is single accommodation only (I can see the reason if I am occupying a twin or double room).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2023 ==

It would just be nice if people could generally conduct themselves in a manner that shows some awareness of their surroundings ...

I've been wishing the same in general for many years now, but our ultra-safe world means paying attention and awareness of ones surroundings is no longer necessary for survival so it is gradually being eroded away. Hence why you get the gormless idiots fiddling with their smartphones whilst nearly walking into you completely oblivious of their inability to multitask.

 

[SussexSeagull]

I tend to please myself but thinking about it if I am on my own and suspect the train is busy I will probably go for one of the airline seats or go for. bank of four if I need a table. I tend to sit on the inside seat as I have dodgy knees and need to stretch them, but don't put my bag in the seat and am more than happy to move. Being a quite large 6 feet 2 chap I have had arguments over the use of the armrest so probably for the best.

That said I always give my seat up for anyone pregnant or with mobility issues, which is something not as common as it should be.

 

[satisnek]

A fascinating thread which just goes to show that we're all different. Me, I like a window seat and 30 years ago that would have been a table seat as well, but I've since come to appreciate face-to-back seats (must be an age thing!), so a lot of what has been said doesn't apply to me. But although I'll happily clear my clutter from the adjacent seat when the train starts filling up, I don't usually budge.

On a busy service I have, on a number of occasions, 'picked on' a person sitting next to a spare window seat and asked if the seat is free. I've never had a problem here (but then I'm quite choosy about who I want to sit next to!), but on a couple of occasions they've picked up their 'stuff' and slid across, leaving me having to explain rather sheepishly that I wanted the window seat!

However, am I the only one who sees a flaw in the original premise in the OP? I board a train, see a free double seat and sit in it, not noticing who gets on behind me? By then, it's really too late.

Not strictly relevant here, but related, is a situation I experienced on an SVR gala last year which really ground my gears. I was sharing a fully occupied 8 seat compartment which included a group of three blokes. At regular intervals two of them would get up and go into the corridor to put their heads out of the window, take photos, etc., including at stations. On two occasions people came down the carriage and asked if the seats were free, to which the guy still seated told them that they were taken. I was thinking that on the third time I would jump in and say help yourself, the SVR doesn't have seat reservations, but that never occurred. Surely, if you want to stand at a window then you automatically forfeit your seat?

 

[Facing Back]

A fascinating thread which just goes to show that we're all different. Me, I like a window seat and 30 years ago that would have been a table seat as well, but I've since come to appreciate face-to-back seats (must be an age thing!), so a lot of what has been said doesn't apply to me. But although I'll happily clear my clutter from the adjacent seat when the train starts filling up, I don't usually budge.

On a busy service I have, on a number of occasions, 'picked on' a person sitting next to a spare window seat and asked if the seat is free. I've never had a problem here (but then I'm quite choosy about who I want to sit next to!), but on a couple of occasions they've picked up their 'stuff' and slid across, leaving me having to explain rather sheepishly that I wanted the window seat!

However, am I the only one who sees a flaw in the original premise in the OP? I board a train, see a free double seat and sit in it, not noticing who gets on behind me? By then, it's really too late.

Not strictly relevant here, but related, is a situation I experienced on an SVR gala last year which really ground my gears. I was sharing a fully occupied 8 seat compartment which included a group of three blokes. At regular intervals two of them would get up and go into the corridor to put their heads out of the window, take photos, etc., including at stations. On two occasions people came down the carriage and asked if the seats were free, to which the guy still seated told them that they were taken. I was thinking that on the third time I would jump in and say help yourself, the SVR doesn't have seat reservations, but that never occurred. Surely, if you want to stand at a window then you automatically forfeit your seat?

would the same apply if you got up to go to the loo? Somebody could pinch your "vacant" seat?

 

[Mikey C]

Apart from anything else, if a man gets on a carriage with a vacant double seat but choose to instead sit next to someone, it could look a bit creepy if the man was to sit next to an attractive young woman for example.

 

[satisnek]

would the same apply if you got up to go to the loo? Somebody could pinch your "vacant" seat?

Well no, at least not justifiably. But in this case we're talking about people intentionally standing when passengers are boarding the train.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

I usually travel with a large backpack (around 45L), so I have no choice but to put it on the seat next to me (it doesn't fit under my legs/above the seats). This also has the added benefit of giving me some added comfort/breathing room, which, to put it tactfully, helps me greatly (I'm not great in social situations for reasons I don't want to disclose, and the last time someone sat next to me on an airline seat on a Javelin I had a panic attack)

 

[zwk500]

Apart from anything else, if a man gets on a carriage with a vacant double seat but choose to instead sit next to someone, it could look a bit creepy if the man was to sit next to an attractive young woman for example.

On busy trains, if forced to sit next to somebody I will deliberately choose to sit next to people who I think would be less bothered about a tall male sitting next to them.

 

[bramling]

Not strictly relevant here, but related, is a situation I experienced on an SVR gala last year which really ground my gears. I was sharing a fully occupied 8 seat compartment which included a group of three blokes. At regular intervals two of them would get up and go into the corridor to put their heads out of the window, take photos, etc., including at stations. On two occasions people came down the carriage and asked if the seats were free, to which the guy still seated told them that they were taken. I was thinking that on the third time I would jump in and say help yourself, the SVR doesn't have seat reservations, but that never occurred. Surely, if you want to stand at a window then you automatically forfeit your seat?

I think in that situation, especially at something like a gala, etiquette is that the seats are “taken”, even if the person chooses to stand periodically.

I had something semi-similar on LU a few years ago when my shoulder was giving me some serious pain and I had taken the opportunity to rest my bag on a platform bench and stand leaning against it. Guy comes up and essentially demands to sit there, to which I gave him very short shrift indeed. I found that extremely rude.

 

[duncanp]

I get the impression single people are seen as a nuisance, which is the real reason why we get charged more for overnight accommodation even if we are occupying a room which is single accommodation only (I can see the reason if I am occupying a twin or double room).

This is my impression too.

I have walked out of a restaurant after being deliberately seated in the worst possible table, simply because I asked to be seated at a proper table rather than eating a meal perched on a bar stool with no back support, which is what the restaurant originally wanted to do.

In a pub, I will make every effort to sit at a small table, or in a way such that I am not taking up four spaces.

However at busy times there may only be one table free, so you don't always have the choice.

 

[yorksrob]

would the same apply if you got up to go to the loo? Somebody could pinch your "vacant" seat?

I've had that happen in the past. I put a coat down now.