Should lone passengers leave empty seat pairs free for groups?

[xotGD]

Yes, I hadn't read the OP properly.

If there's only one double seat, I'll go for it regardless (apart from anything else, it's against etiquette to sit next to a stranger when a double is available).

If there is only one seat available I would take it so that @yorksrob has to stand.

 

[yorksrob]

If there is only one seat available I would take it so that @yorksrob has to stand.

And you would be welcome according to protocol (although I would be obviously fuming )

 

[james60059]

I was sat in a bay of 4 last year on a train from Sheffield to Lincoln (I was on an East Midlands Rover), and I had a couple ask if they could sit at the table, I was happy to say OK as I was assuming they were referring to the 2 seats opposite me. WRONG, they wanted the bay to themselves for - wait for it - social distancing purposes . I politely declined and said they were welcome to sit opposite, but I was not moving. Another fellow passenger heard, and said to them that if they were that scared of being near others then maybe they should stay at home.

 

[43172]

You’re a lone passenger who gets onto a fairly busy service. The only other passengers who get on are a couple behind you. Upon entering the seating area, you see that there’s only one “free double”, and the other free seats are all next to someone else.

Do you:

1. Take the free double for yourself, thus more-or-less guaranteeing two seats to yourself until the next stop, but risking scorching resentment from the couple behind you for your “selfishness”, or…
2. …leave the free double for the couple and sit next to someone else, graciously accepting the thanks from the couple (if it comes, which it probably won’t)?

I promise this isn’t the start of some “railway adventure book”. There will be no more of these “decision questions” from me, at least in this thread…

Short answer, give them the seats.

Long answer, depends on the couple. A parent and child or an eldery couple, i'd give them the pair of seats. Otherwise there'd be no doubt a pair of aisle seats free for as long as it would take for a window and aisle seat pair to be free. Plus the question assumes that no one gets off, and in all likleyhood unless the service is a single 153 they would consider moving to another coach in an attempt to find a pair of free seats.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Depends on what mood I'm in. I usually go for a table seat anyway (is that selfish as a single passenger?). If the train is likely to be standing room only then I will offer to swap as it doesn't matter what stranger I sit beside. I will always go for an empty pair of seats first however.

If all other seats are full then sitting in the aisle seat and blocking an empty one is selfish, and I would tell you to move over to allow me to sit.

Really? I’ve never seen a passenger tell another passenger to move over and would not be happy to be told that myself! You’re very welcome to sit in the window seat should you wish to; that is the one that’s available!

At my height, it’s better for you if I’m not trying to cram myself in the “window half” of the space (and that was even more the case before I lost 5 stone a couple of years ago…) That applies even more with the narrower seats by the vestibules that you get on the GWR 800s.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

This thread made me remember this sketch:

 

[trainophile]

Depends on what mood I'm in. I usually go for a table seat anyway (is that selfish as a single passenger?). If the train is likely to be standing room only then I will offer to swap as it doesn't matter what stranger I sit beside. I will always go for an empty pair of seats first however.

If all other seats are full then sitting in the aisle seat and blocking an empty one is selfish, and I would tell you to move over to allow me to sit.

I would object to being "told to move over", although I would willingly stand up to allow access to the window seat.

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I would take the window seat because I like looking out. If it were a person traveling with a younger child, I would probably leave the set of 2 seats for them. Since on most longer trips in the UK, it is possible to reserve a seat; I would have reserved a desirable window seat ahead of time. Once I've paid for the reservation, then the seat is mine, IMHO.

Paid for the reservation? Or do you just mean paid for your ticket which happens to include a seat reservation?

 

[zwk500]

I would object to being "told to move over", although I would willingly stand up to allow access to the window seat.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2023 ==

As would I

Paid for the reservation? Or do you just mean paid for your ticket which happens to include a seat reservation?

It's much the same thing. If my ticket includes a reservation then I do expect to be able to sit in that seat.

 

[yorksrob]

When luggage is taking up a seat, a forceful "excuse me, is this seat taken" usually works.

 

[BluePenguin]

I never sit next to strangers due to being fat

Well, surely you can fit in most seats with the arm rest down?

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Well, surely you can fit in most seats with the arm rest down?

Without wishing to offend anyone, there’s fat and there’s US fat. Armrest notwithstanding, the latter is not fun to be next to. Even through clothing, I’d rather not be in constant contact with a stranger. I’m sure it’s not fun for the other person either.

 

[Facing Back]

Well, surely you can fit in most seats with the arm rest down?

how many seats have armrests? Genuine question. Avanti pendalinos and GNER whatevers do. Commuter trains?

 

[ChewChewTrain]

how many seats have armrests? Genuine question. Avanti pendalinos and GNER whatevers do. Commuter trains?

GWR 180s and 800s do (except the narrow end seats), but not the 165/166s except in (often declassified) First Class.

Some Underground lines do (e.g. Northern, Victoria); some don’t (e.g. Bakerloo). Obviously none for folding down seats anywhere.

 

[Merseysider]

Commuter trains?

There’s a lot of variety. Merseyrail no, Northern and WMT yes, except for 323 etc...

 

[lachlan]

Really? I’ve never seen a passenger tell another passenger to move over and would not be happy to be told that myself! You’re very welcome to sit in the window seat should you wish to; that is the one that’s available!

At my height, it’s better for you if I’m not trying to cram myself in the “window half” of the space (and that was even more the case before I lost 5 stone a couple of years ago…) That applies even more with the narrower seats by the vestibules that you get on the GWR 800s.

Of course I would be happy to sit in the window seat if the other person prefers the aisle. I get the impression some folks sit in the aisle seat just to avoid having to sit next to someone, knowing that many people won't ask them to move.

 

[Facing Back]

GWR 180s and 800s do (except the narrow end seats), but not the 165/166s except in (often declassified) First Class.

Some Underground lines do (e.g. Northern, Victoria); some don’t (e.g. Bakerloo). Obviously none for folding down seats anywhere.

thanks

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Quote Reply

There’s a lot of variety. Merseyrail no, Northern and WMT yes, except for 323 etc...

thanks
Report Edit

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I get the impression some folks sit in the aisle seat just to avoid having to sit next to someone, knowing that many people won't ask them to move.

Not always. In standard class on Pendolinos, the floor area by the window seat is just that little bit more cramped, and the floor heating vents can also be a tad over-toasty.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Take the double, the seats are so small no one will fit next to me anyway

 

[bramling]

I get the impression some folks sit in the aisle seat just to avoid having to sit next to someone, knowing that many people won't ask them to move.

Not sure why anyone would find this surprising. It’s entirely rational to want to keep the seat free if possible, as one never knows what’s going to sit there and make the journey a misery.

Worth remembering that most of the population already do this by opting to travel by private car.

 

[43066]

Not sure why anyone would find this surprising. It’s entirely rational to want to keep the seat free if possible, as one never knows what’s going to sit there and make the journey a misery.

Absolutely. This is why, if I have two adjacent seats to myself, I will generally sit in the aisle seat to discourage people from sitting next to me.

 

[Mag_seven]

When I get on a train I'll generally sit where I want unless its compulsory reservation. That said if I'm in a group of 4 then I do find it rather irritating if all the bays of four have one person sitting in them.

 

[Vespa]

I wouldn't move, in fact to keep seat next to me free, anybody that looks like they're going sit with me, I would look at them and ask "if they are interested in the word of the Lord" or a crazy serial killer staring look, fart really loudly

 

[MCSHF007]

I wouldn't move, in fact to keep seat next to me free, anybody that looks like they're going sit with me, I would look at them and ask "if they are interested in the word of the Lord" or a crazy serial killer staring look, fart really loudly

Even more effective if you can muster up an "armageddon" type of fart.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Even more effective if you can muster up an "armageddon" type of fart.

In these times, I’ve noticed more than once that certain passengers seem to have a cough which only flares up when a passenger is looking for a seat and all the doubles have gone.

Easier than summoning gas at will, I suppose, and less unpleasant (though potentially more alarming) for everyone else.

 

[Mikey C]

This thread made me remember this sketch:

I immediately started chanting to myself "double seat, double seat, gotta get a double seat" when I saw this thread

In answer to the original question

a) I would always take the double seat, but sit by the window. If a couple really needed the double seat (e.g. parent with a young child or an elderly couple) I would offer to swap, though that might depend on who I'd be sitting next to
b) Unless the train is empty, I don't tend to sit by myself at a table, as that seems a bit selfish. Like going by myself into a busy pub and taking a large table instead of one for 2.

 

[josh-j]

Absolutely. This is why, if I have two adjacent seats to myself, I will generally sit in the aisle seat to discourage people from sitting next to me.

The irony being that quiet people who wouldn't cause you a fuss will be standing unnecessarily because they don't have the confidence to ask you to stop being selfish, whereas loud and outgoing people will happily ask you loudly to shove off. There will be people avoiding asking for the seat because they don't know how you will respond; they might be nervous of asking because you're so obviously blocking the other seat; they might have had bad experiences with abusive people previously. You're taking advantage of all of that just so you can have a better travel experience than others.

I don't really mean this as a personal attack or anything, and there's nothing wrong with just preferring to sit in an aisle seat, but I do think that deliberately discouraging other passengers from sitting down as a matter of course is a bit antisocial.
♂️

 

[RJ]

In some places you don't really get a choice. Try boarding a Cambrian Coast train at Machynlleth. Even if you position yourself right by where the doors should be (there aren't any stop markers!!) and stand as close as you can, you're more or less guaranteed to get people shamelessly slipping into the gap in front of you in order to nab the table seats.

Unfortunately this shuffle seems to be unavoidable - the first time I went, I boarded at Birmingham expecting to go to Pwllheli but we lost some carriages at Shrewsbury and the Pwllheli portion came from the sidings at Machynlleth. The second time, it was announced halfway through that all four coaches would be going to Aberystwyth due to the number of passengers waiting at Aberystwyth and so it was off at Machynlleth for the train from the sidings again.

The first time at Machynlleth I clocked what was happening sharpish and strategically positioned my arm so nobody short enough to slip under it was able to. I took a seaview table seat on one and one other passenger who got on at a later station was speaking about me pejoratively in Welsh as if I couldn't understand what she was saying. She was saying I was selfish for sitting there. There's nothing stopping anyone occupying the other three seats. I actually don't mind sitting in an airline seat but my laptop wanted charging and those trains only have three pin sockets at tables - the airline window seats just have USB chargers. The second time I got it wrong with my standing position and didn't get a seat of choice for a while.

Similarly at Mallaig, I clocked how many people were buzzing around the station and I was on the platform stood by the door 40 minutes before departure. Once the doors were released I got on and got the Glenfinnan Viaduct view table seat above the engine I was after. One woman who got on was trying to get my attention, presumably to get me out of that seat but I had my headphones on and just stared out of the window at the Jacobite. Eventually her partner called her back to a table on the other side. She made an utterance then stomped off in a huff. I could hear her arguing with him about it. I shared the table with a family of three, no big deal. It was a four carriage train that eventually got packed end to end and I ended up giving up my seat for a pensioner.

Clearly people have no issue taking seats that are preferable to them and it's doing a lot to assume what other people want to do. When I'm travelling with someone, if we can't get a table it's preferable to sit at opposite aisle airline seats than in a seat pair. In a group of 4+ it is preferable to be together at a table but if not, no big deal. That said, people do offer to move when they see we're a group on a leisure trip.

 

[Egg Centric]

Well, surely you can fit in most seats with the arm rest down?

(We've met very briefly at a forum meal although you may not remember it)

Yes... but that doesn't mean not encroaching on the seat next to me, because rail arm rests, universally as far as I'm aware, aren't "walls" and the nature of an arse is it spreads out below them. I'm also perfectly capable of standing up for any journey I'd be in standard class and longer distances if alone I go first, alternatively am very fortunate that my wife is a third of my size (not an exaggeration) so we can travel standard together in comfort. And I don't really travel long distance rail with others much that I can think of, certainly not soberly. So it's not a big deal.

Indeed I stand up if on a tube or whatever I've got at in the extremities if we're approaching central and it's going to get busy. It doesn't sit right with me to be discouraging (I originally said preventing but that's not the case) the usage of an adjacent seat.

 

[GusB]

To my shame I've just realised that it has been over three years since I last undertook a journey by train!

On that occasion, I boarded an LNER train at Waverley which was running somewhat late and, due to engineering works between there and Haymarket, we were being routed around the south sub. The LNER train wasn't too bad - I had a pair of forward-facing airline seats to myself, but it was when I reached Aberdeen and boarded the connection to Elgin that I encountered a problem.

There was a group of ladies who had clearly been out for a day at the sales. There were four of them occupying two lots of table seats; if I remember correctly there were three in one bay and one in the other, with the remaining seats being covered in shopping bags. I politely asked if I could sit in one of the three seats in the second bay, but when my request was met with a negative response I began to remove the bags myself. It ended up with the one person moving over to sit in the first bay and me having four seats to myself with no shopping bags surrounding me - result!

I like having a table, but if a larger group comes along and there are free airline seats I'm more than happy to voluntarily give up my seat. If I'm asked politely, I'm also likely to move; if you come along and demand this and that, you can shove it and I ain't budging!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There was a group of ladies who had clearly been out for a day at the sales. There were four of them occupying two lots of table seats; if I remember correctly there were three in one bay and one in the other, with the remaining seats being covered in shopping bags. I politely asked if I could sit in one of the three seats in the second bay, but when my request was met with a negative response I began to remove the bags myself. It ended up with the one person moving over to sit in the first bay and me having four seats to myself with no shopping bags surrounding me - result!

I like having a table, but if a larger group comes along and there are free airline seats I'm more than happy to voluntarily give up my seat. If I'm asked politely, I'm also likely to move; if you come along and demand this and that, you can shove it and I ain't budging!

I would never touch someone else's property and would be infuriated if someone did that to me (just personally I'd find it extremely inappropriate), but I agree that such refusal to move the bags is out of order and would have got the guard to insist they do if necessary.

I will often volunteer to give up my table seat for groups, especially if I'm not travelling far, but if the group asks me then forget it. It's cheeky and entitled. If I volunteer it, it's perfectly fine for them to accept, but wait for me to offer. That's my personal view.

How on earth have you managed to go three years without a train ride here and there?! That's an impressive feat

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jan 2023 ==

I don't really mean this as a personal attack or anything, and there's nothing wrong with just preferring to sit in an aisle seat, but I do think that deliberately discouraging other passengers from sitting down as a matter of course is a bit antisocial.

I don't think you can call simply sitting in an aisle seat antisocial. Yes, he said by doing that he hopes no one will sit there, but all he is doing is actually sitting in a seat, it isn't like he's admitted to spreading over both seats or deliberately putting luggage on the other. If someone does not wish to ask if they can sit in the free window seat the other side, that is nobody's problem but theirs.