Not stopping at Prestatyn - train too long

[Railjet]

From VT website:

On Sunday [6 March], the 1355 Holyhead to Euston service will not stop at Prestatyn. Due to the cancellation of Arriva Trains Wales services on Sunday, Virgin Trains’ 1355 Holyhead-Euston service will be a longer-than-normal train. The train can carry more customers, but is too long to stop, at 1503, at the Prestatyn platform (currently under construction). The 1335 is the only service affected.

What will form this service - can't they just open certain doors (or not open them, as the case may be)?

 

[Failed Unit]

It will be 2x Voyagers. They don't have SDO. When they do this in Scotland the rear set is locked out of use until Kirkcaldy where both sets fit.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

It will be 2x Voyagers. They don't have SDO. When they do this in Scotland the rear set is locked out of use until Kirkcaldy where both sets fit.

why can't the guard just use his local door,simple but effective as long as announcements etc are given

 

[nedchester]

Nanny state nonsense!!

Just tell the passengers in the coaches off the platform not to get off. Simples!!

 

[142094]

why can't the guard just use his local door,simple but effective as long as announcements etc are given

No corridor connection, and I'm not sure that you could have a local door on each of the voyagers (may be wrong, someone will have to clarify).

 

[ANorthernGuard]

No corridor connection, and I'm not sure that you could have a local door on each of the voyagers (may be wrong, someone will have to clarify).

2 guards, 1 for each unit, simples and there must be local door control to check platforms etc.

 

[142094]

Can you do that if the units are connected (I have no idea that is why I'm asking). For example when a TPE double 185 comes into York there is normally only one conductor who opens all the doors on both 185s from one local door.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Can you do that if the units are connected (I have no idea that is why I'm asking). For example when a TPE double 185 comes into York there is normally only one conductor who opens all the doors on both 185s from one local door.

slam door its easy for obvious reasons on a voyager I haven't got a clue but i'm pretty sure there would be a workaround even if its through one of the unused cab doors

 

[ChrisCooper]

Corridor connection isn't an issue, as long as passengers are in the correct half of the train. Problem with a local door would probably be the numbers on the train and the numbers getting on and off, not good if you've got large numbers trying to use a single door, and also trying to get down a potentially busy train to and from the available door.
I'm not sure if a local door release is possible on a Voyager anyway, as door control is in the hands of the driver. The guard can disable their local door before signalling for the other doors to be closed to keep it open, but I don't think they can independantly release their door. Very few modern units actually have local door controls, just the ability to hold the local door open when the others are closed. On Turbostars, where only a single door can be opened the cab door is used (for example at Berney Arms on the Yarmouth line).

 

[Failed Unit]

2 guards, 1 for each unit, simples and there must be local door control to check platforms etc.

A gaurd per unit, quick lock up NorthernGaurd. TOCs think that one gaurd per unit is enough lets face it the other unit has a driver in and the barriers will stop the fare dodging as people head to the unit without the gaurd. Don't worry if something happens in the front unit the driver will stop the train to deal with it!

Do any TOCs have a gaurd per unit? Not sure if Virgin do or not, never experience an EMT service with 2 gaurds. I suspect you will get the sods law the gaurd is in the wrong set. I remember good old BR days when on the "Humber-Lincs" you were told front 3 for Market Rasen, it worked!

{You may get the impression that I feel we should have a full trained member of staff in each set}

Gets coat!

 

[1V53]

We use multiple 175's sometimes on ATW and stop at platforms a 5 or 6 car won't fit at. We make sure anyone for that station is in the front unit and local door it. We sometimes have to operate with one guard. It's a faff but perfectly simple.

You can't release all the doors as if some idiot did get out the guard would lose their job for breaching safety regs. It's a definate no-no in the rulebook.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

more than once on the CLC chester line when we have non corrider sets that is too long for some platforms, rule is local door only if only 1 guard we tell the passengers what part of the train they need to be in if we have a spare guard we just open 2 local doors

 

[RobShipway]

Okay, if it is 2 Voyager sets could you not just lockout the rear Voyager set until Chester, so that only the front set is in use until that point?

 

[1V53]

Okay, if it is 2 Voyager sets could you not just lockout the rear Voyager set until Chester, so that only the front set is in use until that point?

Yes. It seems a bit perverse going to the effort of making this announcement when they simply need to make announcements on the day and do a local door. I wonder if Virgin staff refuse to undertake this operation? Makes me laugh as we have to cope with this situation regularly at various locations.

 

[RobShipway]

Also, what are the passengers at Prestatyn if they want to travel to Chester with no services from Arriva either? Are bustitions being laid on?

 

[185]

Lol. Plonkers.

Local door only surely, they aren't the sharpest pencils in the box.

 

[WestCoast]

2 guards, 1 for each unit, simples and there must be local door control to check platforms etc.

When the Voyagers double up on CrossCountry (to replace a HST or add extra capacity) don't they sometimes just have one guard?

Must be difficult hopping from unit to unit, on a packed service.

 

[tbtc]

Lol. Plonkers.

Local door only surely, they aren't the sharpest pencils in the box.

You'd hope that someone on the thread would praise Virgin for running a longer service to compensate passengers for the lack of ATW alternative (after the thread criticising Northern for not running a longer Chester service during the strike)...

Saying "local door" isn't much use if there's only one conductor (on two units with no corridor connection)

 

[222007]

When the Voyagers double up on CrossCountry (to replace a HST or add extra capacity) don't they sometimes just have one guard?

If its a double voyager replacing a HST it will usually just have 1 TM. If its booked a double voyager sometimes there will be 2 TM's. On our 170 routes if there a double 170 set the senior conductor will normally work from the rear set

 

[tbtc]

When the Voyagers double up on CrossCountry (to replace a HST or add extra capacity) don't they sometimes just have one guard?

Must be difficult hopping from unit to unit, on a packed service.

Yeah, they do

Whilst people on the IEP thread were assuming that it'd mean two Guards were required, XC do it with just the one sometimes...

 

[1V53]

You'd hope that someone on the thread would praise Virgin for running a longer service to compensate passengers for the lack of ATW alternative (after the thread criticising Northern for not running a longer Chester service during the strike)...

Saying "local door" isn't much use if there's only one conductor (on two units with no corridor connection)

You ensure everyone for Prestatyn is in the relevant unit by way of announcements, simples. Well not that simple but we do it on ATW with multi 175's so the same applies there.

 

[Anvil1984]

It is similar in a way to Chester le Street which whenever there is a double set put on a service that stops there (due to disruption) has to have a not to call order as there is no SDO feature on Voyagers neither is there a local door release feature as door release is given by the driver in the cab. That is the crux of the problem.

The obvious answer would be to lock the rear set out until first oppotunity but Virgin may be expecting a higher than normal load from Holyhead or it could also be a 57+Pendolino which again is driver controlled door release and no SDO

 

[spacehopper]

^ what he said^ no local door on Voyagers as guard doesn't have any control over POD. Just waiting for IEP to be built DOO. TOCs are very strict when it comes to local door or SDO. For example units maybe fitted with SDO but can't be used as not on TOCs safety case.

 

[BestWestern]

This illustrates perfectly the daftness of having stock where a Driver releases the doors but a Guard is responsbile for them being closed (directly or via a buzzer instruction), really can't understand the advantages of it. Usual procedure for power door stock is for the Guard to open a local first and check the train is positioned properly; with Voyagers etc you just have to hope the Driver has it right I guess!

FGW use local door frequently, and non-gangway units. Not helpful on routes like Westbury - Weymouth with short plaforms and request stops, but it is do-able. Nice when you don't have to though!

 

[185]

Jeez. Puch glass & green emergency handle it is then )

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Thank god Northern let us use our best judgement, they trust their staff (mostly), as long a safety isn't compromised (which we would never do) they let us decide what is the best course of action, usually its local door, sometimes a rear set is locked out (depending on how busy it is), common sense is used, thats why I will never understand the benefits of a Driver releasing the doors, in my mind a very unneeded idea.

 

[merlodlliw]

It all seems a bit daft, but as VT are putting on an extra set for the majority of passengers, good for them thinking of customers.

Anyhow Prestatyn is only 5 minutes down the line from Rhyl.


Bob

 

[tbtc]

You ensure everyone for Prestatyn is in the relevant unit by way of announcements, simples. Well not that simple but we do it on ATW with multi 175's so the same applies there.

I've never seen a double 175; which duties have them?

 

[Pumbaa]

VT cannot do SDO as an operator; apart from the fact Voyagers don't have it, it's not covered in their safety case nor are staff permitted to do it unless worked out months in advance with temporary paperwork. This include LDO.

 

[TDK]

From VT website:



What will form this service - can't they just open certain doors (or not open them, as the case may be)?

There is probably a local VT ruling agains this and VT are expecting a busy train, this is only being done on the grounds of safety and I am sure if it was possible to stop there VT would stop as it will be more revenue for them