Should lone passengers leave empty seat pairs free for groups?

[NorwichRailFan]

I may be seen as inconsiderate, but I find on any form of Public Transport(Trains, Buses, Tube, ect) It's everyone for themselves(Apart from the elderly, Pregnant, Disabled, ect. Basicly If I can see you are struggling to stand, I'll give up my seat). If I see a vacant pair, I would go for it.

 

[Silver Cobra]

This will make me sound very strange, but the only time I will ever sit down on a train is if an empty pair of forward-facing seats are available, and I always choose the window seat. If the only options for forward-facing seats are single seats beside other passengers, I just stand by the doors. If I'm already sat down and someone comes along wanting to sit in the empty seat next to me I'm fine with that, but I just don't feel comfortable imposing myself on those already sat down (heck, this even extends to compulsory reservations, where I'll stand by the doors over taking my reserved seat if this situation arises). If a situation arises where it's a couple who clearly want to sit together and no other seat pairs are available, I'll offer the seats to them and again stand by the doors.

I know this is very odd behaviour for someone who regularly uses public transport, but it comes from rather deep-rooted social anxieties I have.

 

[yorksrob]

I caught a Coastway service from Eastbourne to Hastings last year and it was noticeable that pretty much every seating bay on the electrostar was taken up with someone doing a contortion to spread themselves across all of the seats. Even my travelling companion commented on it.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Due to where I board the long distance trains I use regularly, I almost always get to sit at an empty bay of 4 (or 6 on a 350/2), when I’ll sit in the forward facing window seat on the right-hand side.

As the train gets busier, people sit in the remaining seats, that’s how public transport works.

If the train is busy and there is a window seat occupied by a bag, I’ll ask the passenger to move it and sit there.

Given some of the replies on here (some of which are definitely not tongue-in-cheek), you’d think the ticket included exclusive use of the carriage!

 

[John Luxton]

1. Take the free double for yourself, thus more-or-less guaranteeing two seats to yourself until the next stop, but risking scorching resentment from the couple behind you for your “selfishness”, or…
2. …leave the free double for the couple and sit next to someone else, graciously accepting the thanks from the couple (if it comes, which it probably won’t)?

I promise this isn’t the start of some “railway adventure book”. There will be no more of these “decision questions” from me, at least in this thread…

I always want a window seat unless its just a very quick one or two station hop and yes I would take the double beside - I imagine most others would too?

 

[davews]

I normally plonk myself down in one of the 3 seat bays in 450s preferring forward travel - and see who joins me. I am not adverse to sitting anywhere there is a seat though. Rather strange yesterday when got on a packed tube train and grabbed the only seat available, then to find that the two either side of me were actually a couple and proceeded to chat to each other across me...

 

[43066]

There will be people avoiding asking for the seat because they don't know how you will respond; they might be nervous of asking because you're so obviously blocking the other seat; they might have had bad experiences with abusive people previously. You're taking advantage of all of that just so you can have a better travel experience than others.

I think you are overthinking it. I make generally short journeys on metro services, so it’s hardly the end of the world for someone to stand for a few minutes, as I frequently do myself.

If someone does not wish to ask if they can sit in the free window seat the other side, that is nobody's problem but theirs.

Yes. If someone makes a point of asking I will stand up so that they can take the window seat and I’ll keep the aisle (I’m 6”3 and quite broad shouldered so it’s more comfortable for us both if I can angle my legs into the aisle). I have on a couple of occasions simply pointed to another set of free seats when someone as asked to sit next to me on an airline seat. In my view it is discourteous (and potentially creepy) to try to insist on sitting directly next to a stranger when there are free rows of seats

 

[Man_with_beard]

I've done this before for people and depends where your getting off. If it's a long journey then no I'm seated here as I got to it first. But a few stops I'll just stand in the doorway.

 

[Flag-pole]

You’re a lone passenger who gets onto a fairly busy service. The only other passengers who get on are a couple behind you. Upon entering the seating area, you see that there’s only one “free double”, and the other free seats are all next to someone else.

Do you:

1. Take the free double for yourself, thus more-or-less guaranteeing two seats to yourself until the next stop, but risking scorching resentment from the couple behind you for your “selfishness”, or…
2. …leave the free double for the couple and sit next to someone else, graciously accepting the thanks from the couple (if it comes, which it probably won’t)?

I promise this isn’t the start of some “railway adventure book”. There will be no more of these “decision questions” from me, at least in this thread…

That depends. On several factors. 1 how tired I am which considering my normal work pattern (not rail related) usually results in irregular sleep pattern and sleep deprivation. 2 is this couple older, younger disabled, and lastly their general behaviour and attitude
If there the stroppy shoving type then NO if there physically fit regardless of age then NO
if there obviously disabled, infirm, pregnant then yes if there civil and I've only got a couple local stops to go then Yes

However I should state that if I spot a unused window seat in a packed carriage, I will aim for it. And politely ask person to move over. If they ignore the request , glance around, play dumb or cop a deaf un etc. I WILL step over them and park my ass while in my filthy workwear if they get a spattering of mud n grease . Well TOUGH. Shouldn't be so ignorant

 

[riceuten]

No. If there's a seat free, I will take it. I am not going to be fretting about who may be potentially getting on further down the line. If someone elderly or disabled turned up, then of course I am going to give up my seat. But standing so a parent or teenage child can sit? I don't think so.

A few years ago, I remember a family of 4 (2 teenagers plus mum and dad) walking the entire length of a 12 carriage train looking for a "4 together" set of seats (which, as this was a rush hour train and folks were already standing, was extremely unlikely), and the father thundered - "People are SO selfish, they won't even let a family sit together" - I wanted to say "So you expect 4 complete strangers to stand all the way to Stevenage just so you can sit together?". Later, they got excessed for travelling on off peak tickets in the middle of the evening rush, which I am sure probably meant they never took the train again.

 

[TUC]

My answer would be no.

I used to be more considerate on this, however after experiencing arrogance from weekend passengers on one too many occasions (*) my view is now firmly that it’s tough luck. If anyone wants a particular seat, make the effort to turn up earlier so there is more chance of a choice.

In any case, what would probably happen in practice if you did leave the double seat free is the couple will then sit there babbling away at high volume about rubbish for the whole journey, which will be a lovely display of non-consideration in return for your considerate gesture.

(* where they turn up at the last minute, can’t be bothered to walk through to an emptier part of the train but instead rudely *expect* the first table seat they come across to be made available)

In what way is inconsiderate for prople to talk about 'rubbish'? Do you think passengers should only talk about serious subjects? Plenty of people hearing rail enthusiasts talk will think they are talking about rubbish. Should the enthusiasts be quiet out of 'consideration'?

 

[Vespa]

I caught a Coastway service from Eastbourne to Hastings last year and it was noticeable that pretty much every seating bay on the electrostar was taken up with someone doing a contortion to spread themselves across all of the seats. Even my travelling companion commented on it.

Never bothered me I just plonk myself down next to them they would have to move, I actually don't care about other people's selfishness and I'm quite comfortable sitting on my own (a first preference really) and equally comfortable sitting in a crowded carriage, I just create a mental bubble and switch my hearing aid off.

 

[bramling]

A few years ago, I remember a family of 4 (2 teenagers plus mum and dad) walking the entire length of a 12 carriage train looking for a "4 together" set of seats (which, as this was a rush hour train and folks were already standing, was extremely unlikely), and the father thundered - "People are SO selfish, they won't even let a family sit together" - I wanted to say "So you expect 4 complete strangers to stand all the way to Stevenage just so you can sit together?". Later, they got excessed for travelling on off peak tickets in the middle of the evening rush, which I am sure probably meant they never took the train again.

It’s exactly the above arrogance exhibited by families which has hardened my stance on this, and notable that it’s the King’s Cross line as well. Some very self-entitled people in the various towns on the route.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

I've done this before for people and depends where your getting off. If it's a long journey then no I'm seated here as I got to it first. But a few stops I'll just stand in the doorway.

“That hideous orangutan has taken our double!”

 

[yorksrob]

Never bothered me I just plonk myself down next to them they would have to move, I actually don't care about other people's selfishness and I'm quite comfortable sitting on my own (a first preference really) and equally comfortable sitting in a crowded carriage, I just create a mental bubble and switch my hearing aid off.

We weren't particularly bothered (we did find a suitable seat after walking through). It just amused us that everyone on the train seemed to be employing the same strategy

Of course, in the good old days, the aim was to get the standard class compartment !

 

[class68fan]

If train busy I will take isle seat of airline seats. If somebody want they can have window seat. On less busy train I sit in window seat of airline. but will move to isle if it will get busy at a later station. I dont want to get wedge in by a fatty or if travel to terminus wait to get out wile they finish email they keep writing for minutes.

 

[NorwichRailFan]

No. If there's a seat free, I will take it. I am not going to be fretting about who may be potentially getting on further down the line. If someone elderly or disabled turned up, then of course I am going to give up my seat. But standing so a parent or teenage child can sit? I don't think so.

A few years ago, I remember a family of 4 (2 teenagers plus mum and dad) walking the entire length of a 12 carriage train looking for a "4 together" set of seats (which, as this was a rush hour train and folks were already standing, was extremely unlikely), and the father thundered - "People are SO selfish, they won't even let a family sit together" - I wanted to say "So you expect 4 complete strangers to stand all the way to Stevenage just so you can sit together?". Later, they got excessed for travelling on off peak tickets in the middle of the evening rush, which I am sure probably meant they never took the train again.

Serves them right

 

[GusB]

I would never touch someone else's property and would be infuriated if someone did that to me (just personally I'd find it extremely inappropriate), but I agree that such refusal to move the bags is out of order and would have got the guard to insist they do if necessary.

It's really quite simple - if you don't want anyone else to touch your property, do not place it on seats to the exclusion of anyone else who wishes to sit there. There are overhead racks for luggage/shopping etc.

Who needs to involve the guard when a rather loud "oh, look at these selfish people hogging four seats for their shopping" does the trick?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It's really quite simple - if you don't want anyone else to touch your property, do not place it on seats to the exclusion of anyone else who wishes to sit there. There are overhead racks for luggage/shopping etc.

Who needs to involve the guard when a rather loud "oh, look at these selfish people hogging four seats for their shopping" does the trick?

I mean fair enough, I’m just too much of a wimp to do that myself

 

[PaulMc7]

I very rarely get the train but if I do it's the same as I'd be with buses. I'd give the seat up for old people, someone with a disability or someone who is pregnant but other than that it's first come, first serve.

 

[Ladder23]

My answer would be no.

I used to be more considerate on this, however after experiencing arrogance from weekend passengers on one too many occasions (*) my view is now firmly that it’s tough luck. If anyone wants a particular seat, make the effort to turn up earlier so there is more chance of a choice.

In any case, what would probably happen in practice if you did leave the double seat free is the couple will then sit there babbling away at high volume about rubbish for the whole journey, which will be a lovely display of non-consideration in return for your considerate gesture.

(* where they turn up at the last minute, can’t be bothered to walk through to an emptier part of the train but instead rudely *expect* the first table seat they come across to be made available)

You saved me writing my thoughts! I’m with you..

 

[Furryanimal]

If heading towards Cardiff I'm grateful to get a seat!
I'll sit in any seat and have asked people to move bags from seats on busy trains.

My observations are that many would rather stand than ask!
And yes..I do put my bag on a vacant seat next to me-but I always move it when pulling into a station.
But giving up a seat?
With my arthritic knees...no chance!

 

[BeijingDave]

I continue to offer to swap seats so a couple or family can sit together on railways or the subway. The behaviour of one or two arrogant clowns doesn't stop me doing the gentlemanly thing for most people, who appreciate it.

The only exception I won't make is on airlines. If flying economy, I tend to pay extra to reserve the seat by the window in an emergency exit row or at the bulkhead because I want the extra legroom. Last time I did this it cost 60 euros on SAS, and someone asked me to swap so a family of three could be together. Sorry, no way.

 

[3rd rail land]

The only exception I won't make is on airlines. If flying economy, I tend to pay extra to reserve the seat by the window in an emergency exit row or at the bulkhead because I want the extra legroom. Last time I did this it cost 60 euros on SAS, and someone asked me to swap so a family of three could be together. Sorry, no way.

Completely agree. You paid your hard earned money for that seat and if the family wanted to sit together they should have paid the extra to pick seats together and if 3 seats next to each other are not available look for flights that do have the desired seat availability.

When I went on holiday as a kid ny parents always paid the extra to ensure we could sit together on the plane.

One time i was travelling in a group of around 8 on a rather busy train. We just sat wherever we could find seats which caused us to be spread out across the train. I would never expect anyone to switch seats to accommodate a group in such a scenario.

 

[class68fan]

I continue to offer to swap seats so a couple or family can sit together on railways or the subway. The behaviour of one or two arrogant clowns doesn't stop me doing the gentlemanly thing for most people, who appreciate it.

The only exception I won't make is on airlines. If flying economy, I tend to pay extra to reserve the seat by the window in an emergency exit row or at the bulkhead because I want the extra legroom. Last time I did this it cost 60 euros on SAS, and someone asked me to swap so a family of three could be together. Sorry, no way.

On a plain that is fair as everybody if they cheque in in time has a full choice on seats.

On short trip budget airways I never pay for a seat. I will swap if it suits me, but I want either isle or window seat which if I have wont swap for middle.

 

[43066]

It’s exactly the above arrogance exhibited by families which has hardened my stance on this, and notable that it’s the King’s Cross line as well. Some very self-entitled people in the various towns on the route.

There is certainly element of self entitlement there, with some families acting as if they believe they have a divine right to all sit together by default. It’s as if they think having children is somehow akin to a disability, rather than a lifestyle choice!

The same sometimes applies to other groups travelling together, but to much less of an extent in my experience.

In what way is inconsiderate for prople to talk about 'rubbish'? Do you think passengers should only talk about serious subjects? Plenty of people hearing rail enthusiasts talk will think they are talking about rubbish. Should the enthusiasts be quiet out of 'consideration'?

It would just be nice if people could generally conduct themselves in a manner that shows some awareness of their surroundings and doesn’t impose their choice of awful music/banal conversation/smelly food on everyone else in the carriage.

Sadly that approach seems to be regarded as old fashioned in 2023, so it’s no wonder that people respond by becoming less willing to move seats out of consideration for others.

 

[trainophile]

Another problem with being asked to move, or feeling obligated to, is that it often requires hoiking your luggage down off the overheads, or moving to a seat where it is no longer in view in the racks. If the seat you could move to is under already full overhead racks so you end up with nowhere to put yours, you have to struggle with it. I wouldn't move unless I'd already checked it was feasible from that p.o.v. Avanti for one example can have crammed overheads even on departure from original stations.

 

[Graham H]

Attitude has a lot to do with it. I boarded a comfortably full train at London Victoria, first seat I find is the fourth of a group of four round a table so took it. The other 3 who were not travelling together as far as I could tell got off at Clapham J. Family got on and spotted me, I was about to move but as one of them then commented 'typical, someone hogging the seats' they immediately failed my attitude test and I stayed put, the bay of 4 filled up in any case with other lone travellers. The family (the On the Beach ad reminds me of them) got off at the next stop anyway !

 

[duncanp]

It is not just on trains that single people have the issue of where to sit.

It also happens in cafes, pubs, restaurants and theatres.

The rights and wrongs are the same - single people should have the right to sit where they want, and if a family need to sit together, they should make an appropriate reservation.

In a pub, I don't ming moving if the person asks nicely, and there is a suitable alternative seat available. But if the person asking fails the attitude test, then I can be just as stubborn as anyone else.

I am also annoyed with some theatres that won't let single people book a seat at the end of the row, because they would only be able to sell the seat next to you to another single person, and not a family or group.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The family (the On the Beach ad reminds me of them) got off at the next stop anyway !

Well nourished? Or having an endearing attitude?