Staff abusing 1st class travel privileges

[Barn]

I think you'll find the conductor does.

Really? Is CNX's post above incorrect then?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

i always thought that it was the guard's discretion about where anyone sat, especially in First Class in such scenarios?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

But deep down you know that the conductor doesn't have authority from his employer to do that.

its one of the few unofficial perks staff have left, IF someone was taking the p*** I would understand it, the conductor actually does have the right to say who travels and where, do the rules get bent? ...sometimes, stealing from your employer???? your having a laugh, how can it be theft if you are NOT stopping another passenger from having the seat etc? if the member of staff refused to move fair enough, flamin' eck

 

[ralphchadkirk]

i always thought that it was the guard's discretion about where anyone sat, especially in First Class in such scenarios?

^ That would suffice, Barn. I could be wrong though.

 

[dk1]

I think you'll find the conductor does.

The conductor has the right to put anybody he sees fit into 1st class in the same way he can de-classify. Many TOCs also give staff 1st at weekends as a perk. Anyway staff need to be near the buffet car for the free tea/coffee too!!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The conductor has the right to put anybody he sees fit into 1st class in the same way he can de-classify. Many TOCs also give staff 1st at weekends as a perk anyway. Anyway staff need to be near the buffet car for the free tea/coffee too!!

I always forget about the free coffee grrrrrr

 

[Barn]

The conductor has the right to put anybody he sees fit into 1st class in the same way he can de-classify. Many TOCs also give staff 1st at weekends as a perk. Anyway staff need to be near the buffet car for the free tea/coffee too!!

There's a difference between a discretion in exceptional circumstances (pregnant women, declassifications etc) and giving free upgrades to your buddies.

I'm sure the onboard shop manager could give out free bottled water if passengers were stranded. Doesn't mean he should be handing out frees bottle to a colleagues of his who happen to be travelling.

If I'm wrong, why is there such a thing as a first-class priv?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

There's a difference between a discretion in exceptional circumstances (pregnant women, declassifications etc) and giving free upgrades to your buddies.

I'm sure the onboard shop manager could give out free bottled water if passengers were stranded. Doesn't mean he should be handing out frees bottle to a colleagues of his who happen to be travelling.

If I'm wrong, why is there such a thing as a first-class priv?

I don't know what all the fuss is about, if the train is quiet then whats the problem???? if its packed fair enough, isn't there more important things in life to worry about then a few staff sitting in 1st class when its quiet?? maybe like finding a pair of matching socks?

 

[dk1]

I'm sure the onboard shop manager could give out free bottled water if passengers were stranded. Doesn't mean he should be handing out frees bottle to a colleagues of his who happen to be travelling.

If I'm wrong, why is there such a thing as a first-class priv?

Traincrews are entitled to free bottled water from the buffet car/cupboard in the same way most land based staff have drinking water machines.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't know what all the fuss is about, if the train is quiet then whats the problem???? if its packed fair enough, isn't there more important things in life to worry about then a few staff sitting in 1st class when its quiet?? maybe like finding a pair of matching socks?

Ha ha very good. I was wondering myself what all the fuss is about. As long as staff vacate if fare payers are standing, no problem.

 

[Barn]

Traincrews are entitled to free bottled water from the buffet car/cupboard in the same way most land based staff have drinking water machines.

Yes, but this thread relates to off-duty staff, including employees of other TOCs!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Yes, but this thread relates to off-duty staff, including employees of other TOCs!

note to self....must never accept free coffee or bottled water when off duty from colleagues from different TOC's...got it....NEXT

seriously though, lighten up, train crew look out for each other, its what we do, the majority of us still believe we are still one railway regardless of the different TOC's that operate, it maybe an old fashioned view but its one thats binds Traincrew together

 

[CarterUSM]

note to self....must never accept free coffee or bottled water when off duty from colleagues from different TOC's...got it....NEXT

seriously though, lighten up, train crew look out for each other, its what we do, the majority of us still believe we are still one railway regardless of the different TOC's that operate, it maybe an old fashioned view but its one thats binds Traincrew together

I was thinking that myself, this debate comes up rather often these days........

 

[PTF62]

how can it be theft if you are NOT stopping another passenger from having the seat etc?

I suspect that if a 'normal' passenger without a ticket tried that argument on one of your trains, you wouldn't agree with them.

Anyway the whole thing is a moot point, since it has probably been happening since the start of the railways. Should it happen - Probably not. Does it happen - Yes. Is anyone ever going to stop it happening - No.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I suspect that if a 'normal' passenger without a ticket tried that argument on one of your trains, you wouldn't agree with them.

Anyway the whole thing is a moot point, since it has probably been happening since the start of the railways. Should it happen - Probably not. Does it happen - Yes. Is anyone ever going to stop it happening - No.

A member of staff travelling should ALWAYS give his seat up if it required by a fare paying passenger, not only is it professional its also polite and courteous, I never see myself better than a passenger and would never sit down if a fare paying passenger does not have a seat.

 

[strange6]

A member of staff travelling should ALWAYS give his seat up if it required by a fare paying passenger, not only is it professional its also polite and courteous, I never see myself better than a passenger and would never sit down if a fare paying passenger does not have a seat.

That's the professional and courteous attitude i always see on crowded trains when Northern staff get on board to take a trip anywhere. They always stand up for their passengers and I salute them for it. Very professional

 

[ANorthernGuard]

That's the professional and courteous attitude i always see on crowded trains when Northern staff get on board to take a trip anywhere. They always stand up for their passengers and I salute them for it. Very professional

Why thankyou strange6

 

[strange6]

Why thankyou strange6

My pleasure. Northern have a very friendly and courteous staff throughout GMPTE from the drivers and guards right through to the ticket office staff. You really are a credit to your company

 

[ANorthernGuard]

My pleasure. Northern have a very friendly and courteous staff throughout GMPTE from the drivers and guards right through to the ticket office staff. You really are a credit to your company

thankyou again, it is nice to hear praise for my colleagues, I feel we do a very good job considering the age and state of our trains

 

[Aictos]

As 1V53 said in an earlier post, there's a mutual understanding between staff from most TOC's that we can travel on each others services, providing we ask first and don't presume and behave in a respectful manner. On services that offer First Class we are often told to 'get yourself in First Class mate'. Is it not fair for us to have the odd perk now and again? As long as we respect our fellow passengers I don't see a problem with it. After all, if there was an incident on the train we'd be the first people to offer our assistance.

I quite agree with your post above, there's been a number of times using a particular TOC when there's been a incident and I've always offered any help that I can give.

On times when I do ask, I prefer to sit as close to the back of the train as far possible on the long distance services as close to the guard as possible and keep to myself by simply respecting travellers in the coach in question.

Sometimes the guard can say they prefer staff to be in a certain location whereas if they're required, the guard knows where to locate them.

It always pays to ensure you remain on good terms with your fellow staff members as they could one day be able to do you a favour which you really need.

 

[dk1]

Yes, but this thread relates to off-duty staff, including employees of other TOCs!

Does it? News to me.

 

[Barn]

Does it? News to me.

Of course it does. We're talking about staff riding passenger in first class.

Anyway, I am not a shareholder of a TOC. It's no skin off my nose. If you can all find a way of justifying the practice to yourselves, that's fine with me. But don't make out that it isn't fare dodging, because it is. If it was legit, you'd all have complementary first class passes.

 

[Flamingo]

Of course it does. We're talking about staff riding passenger in first class.

Anyway, I am not a shareholder of a TOC. It's no skin off my nose. If you can all find a way of justifying the practice to yourselves, that's fine with me. But don't make out that it isn't fare dodging, because it is. If it was legit, you'd all have complementary first class passes.

Sometimes it's about the most appropriate place to have staff riding. See my previous post.

 

[scotsman]

Been offered upgrades twice when Conductors were aware I was a rail volunteer (I didn't ask, always offered after it being brought up in conversation) - one time I accepted, but paid for the 'free' food. The second, I refused on account of me not travelling!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Of course it does. We're talking about staff riding passenger in first class.

Anyway, I am not a shareholder of a TOC. It's no skin off my nose. If you can all find a way of justifying the practice to yourselves, that's fine with me. But don't make out that it isn't fare dodging, because it is. If it was legit, you'd all have complementary first class passes.

It isn't fare dodging if it is at the descretion of the gaurd, he has the final say, and it is their judgment what it constitutes.

 

[Flamingo]

"It's my train so FOITTM!"

 

[Crossover]

It isn't fare dodging if it is at the descretion of the gaurd, he has the final say, and it is their judgment what it constitutes.

I myself have been given the option of sitting in First Class (I'm not a member of rail staff by the way) as we were on a double XC Voyager, must have been a good couple of years.

Me and some friends were stood in the vestibule area (I think it was in the end of the coach next to the FC one), along with a few other people. As it was a doubled service, the rear FC section was completely empty. The guard asked us where were going to (we had got on at Stafford and were going to New St, so just a couple of stops) and said since we were just going to Birmingham we could go in FC rather than to stand in the vestibule. The guard also joined us there too as I think the train was too busy for him to get through, besides, he could only have done half the train anyway.

Slightly off the original topic, but thought it was worth adding to the current line of conversation

 

[87015]

It isn't fare dodging if it is at the descretion of the gaurd, he has the final say, and it is their judgment what it constitutes.

Oh it is, you can still be done by an RPI should they fancy it. Suggest you read your RSTL contract (or your parents). Unless its different for safeguarded staff, but with boxes I wouldn't have thought so.

 

[jon0844]

I don't see the harm in staff having some perks, if it doesn't affect anyone else.

I worked for a council in London, and workers who needed to get around with vehicles for their job weren't allowed free parking. Oh no, as the tax payer needed permits, it was unacceptable that council workers might get free parking by being given a permit to use within the borough.

So, instead, council workers had to pay to park and then claim back the parking cost internally - which meant the need for staff to process, loads of paperwork and even the potential for abuse from staff members potentially claiming back the cost of parking tickets from friends and family.

And all because the local residents didn't want council staff having any perks as they 'paid our wages'.

Sometimes it's not worth getting worked up about things. I am sure anyone in employment has some benefits that come with the job. If you want freebies on the railway, as has been said, apply for a job - but remember that you have to take the rough with the smooth. Maybe working in the industry won't be that much fun for everyone, just to get the odd FC upgrade.

 

[scotsman]

I don't know about the mainline, but my Strathspey Rulebook tells me that 'staff should, as far as possible, travel together and away from other passengers. That, to me, could mean 1st since they are all compartments, while pax are spread out? Or, would other passengers complain on staff 'upgrading themselves' - when it's all up to the Guard!

 

[RichmondCommu]

My free Priv Travel Card was earned by me after half of my life in railway service .(I even have a free bus pass now.)
I have gone to work at 0200hrs on a Sunday morning and other times gone to work in smelly tunnels, in pit yards upto the neck in mud and foul water.
Also prepared 36 HAA's that have stood under the pit screens where coal sludge rained down on them all weekend.
Had to put up with drunken passenger on charters, drivers that chain smoked for a 12 hour shift, and EWS managers that would put the curly bit of a shunt pole under thier arms then ask me what it was used for.
I recon that my free passes have been earned the hard way, not by stepping on a passenger train at Kings X and bailing out at Newcastle, thats just playing at railways init?

I bet the double time came in handy though. Don't get me wrong, after a long working life of hard physical work you deserve your free rail pass but the fare paying passenger must always come first.

Please don't forget that without fare paying passengers (and valuable freight customers) there would not be a railway with the thousands of jobs that go with it.

And this comes from a commuter who loves trains and who's father and grandfather were both career railwaymen.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you!