Ayman Ilham
Member
If the TP Route Upgrade is finished on time, how about TPE using the 379 on the Huddersfield stoppers to Leeds and Manchester? What about East-West Rail if they decide to electrify that from the get-go?
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Future of Class 379
- Thread starter AceTrains
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 34,272
They definitely aren’t wiring it. See numerous previous discussions in the EWR threads.
Ayman Ilham
Member
Fair enough, that's ruled out then; but it won't be far-fetched for TPE to use the 379 on the Huddersfield stoppers (if the full MCV-LDS wiring completes fast enough that is), as I can see electrification work actually taking place on the MCV-Stalybridge part (pass the line regularly), which will hopefully extend to Huddersfield and Leeds.
It would be far fetched. Those services are potentially due to return to Northern after electrification and they will want to use 331s on the route.
Class15
Established Member
This is ridiculous. 11-year old trains being sent for long term storage. Something has to be done about this.
I know you just despair at times. I wish the GOV would just stick their nose out of it. I bet they couldn’t even operate the Southend Pier railway successfully let alone the National network
Razorblades
Member
Does it, what?
The only thing with a chance of influencing this would be a change of government, and I'm doubtful that would have any effect. No-one wants to put more assets on the national balance sheet in the present climate.
RailWonderer
Established Member
Well GN were interested but the DfT said no. Surely a battery conversion program would have been greenlit? All this decarbonisation talk and white papers published yet when it comes to funding the programs the DfT goes silent.
Nothing has to be done about this, there is no money it's as simple as that.
Your just going to have to face the reality that even though the 379s are quite young they are most likely going to be scrapped, and nothing can be done about it.
I'd take a guess and say nobody on here would want the 379s to be scrapped but as I’ve said nothing can be done about it.
Invincible
Member
So did the TOC at the time National Express sign a short lease contract with the leasing company which eventually turned out expensive for Anglia?.
Ideally leases should be spread over 30 years, the life of the train, to get the best lease price for the TOC?
Maybe the the leasing company will be able to get a new contact with a new TOC at a lower price to recover the remaining 20 years life left?.
Not with the DFT calling the shots, the fact nobody needs or wants the units and there is no money they won't.
BRblue33
Member
The Goverment and DFT only have tunnel vision . It's been this way for years WHY change now
Razorblades
Member
The units were purchased by Macquarie (bank) at a time when the cost of money was very high, following the 2008 stock market crash. As a result, National Express paid very heavy leasing rates at a time when it hadn't secured a long franchise; naturally, bidders for the next (current) franchise wanted rid of the expensive outliers.
The 'ideal' lease length in the free market isn't equivalent to the design life of the train, and arguably if it was, it could tie-in obsolete equipment that should be replaced by better, more efficient trains after a fraction of 30 years.
It doesn't look too likely that the 379s will be placed on lease anywhere in a hurry, more likely that they'll be disposed of in a fire-sale.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
Quite so. And there's no demand for them. The melodrama about them being scrapped "unacceptably" has been done a hundred times. We know it's a shame, now can we please move on from the outrage
Snow1964
Established Member
If they are sold off cheap, but not quite as cheap as scrap value, there is a chance someone will buy them, and put them in safe storage.
Basically someone may take a calculated risk that a lot of other trains will be scrapped, there is a sudden upturn in the economy (like what happened in 1987-88) but this time following a change of Government, and they will be valuable as a quick fix to lease out. The alternative is they store them, then lose bit of money scrapping them, but not lose that much, as the current owner has taken majority of financial hit.
Class15
Established Member
Thanks for your replies
In my opinion it’s a huge waste of public money but I understand that this country is very wasteful!
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Its not a waste of public money the units are privately owned the loss sits with Akiem as does the opportunity to cut a deal if they want.Thanks for your replies
In my opinion it’s a huge waste of public money but I understand that this country is very wasteful!
Class15
Established Member
Well these are high quality units and the DfT should be moving them somewhere, I’d like to see them on LO if nothing else! More comfortable than 378s
A move to LO won’t happen as the 379s are AC only and LO needs DV trains.Well these are high quality units and the DfT should be moving them somewhere, I’d like to see them on LO if nothing else! More comfortable than 378s
Class15
Established Member
It’s a joke but I heard that the 379s can be modified for DV.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Physically it need six shoe beams, shoes, shoe fuses and cables to the inverter is largely all that is required. Alstom already have equivalent DV approved equivalent units so could be done. However, as i said Akiem don't do mods they are a financial engineering business that buy stock products maintained by the supplier and just collect the leasing charges.
I've been on them a few times and they are quite nice. Plenty of potential for them to be used.
They (currently) have luggage racks, 2+2 seating, air con and 1st class. They have 200 seats and can reach speeds of up to 100mph.
DOO as well I think. And could be operated as 4, 8 or 12 car sets. Suitable for quite a few routes for quite a few TOC's (FTP take note!).
They (currently) have luggage racks, 2+2 seating, air con and 1st class. They have 200 seats and can reach speeds of up to 100mph.
DOO as well I think. And could be operated as 4, 8 or 12 car sets. Suitable for quite a few routes for quite a few TOC's (FTP take note!).
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 13,177
Sorry, perhaps I'm being slow, but what's FTP?
Class15
Established Member
First TransPennine, although it’s now TPE
Sutton in Ant
Member
I believe that there is a chance that if the 379s were fitted with a contact shoe for DC 3rd rail operation. Then I would think more rail operators would be interested in leasing out the 379s
Iskra
Established Member
The kind of trains that could be picked up cheap and run Birmingham-Manchester or York-Edinburgh to free up XC's 22X stock for strengthening, getting rid of the HST's (I know...) and removing diesels from under the wires.
Not necessarily
Yes, the leasing company has a void at present, but they might still not be keen to lease them out at an uneconomic rate.
Iskra
Established Member
I'm assuming there is a transport cost to storage, storage space cost, and still some basic maintenance costs that will be accrued to prevent them becoming unusable again. The economic incentive is to get them used, even if the lease is low it is still saving those other costs (or moving them to someone else). So, I'd suggest it's either they get leased out on the cheap, or end up scrapped fairly quicky. If the initial 10 year lease was high as suggested they might have covered their cost already (or be well on their way to doing so), so a low lease might be less of a problem.
Could another potential use be to replace some of the aging EMU stock around Glasgow?
No. They aren't what Scotrail is looking for and they have already announced other plans, which involve running the 318/320 fleet for another few years, then replacing them with something appropriate for that operation.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status