TPE Nova 3 (Class 68 + Mk5s) updates and withdrawal from service

[sjpowermac]

Weirdly they probably did more miles during the strikes as they were doing empty stock moves here there and everywhere, sorry passengers no trains for you

Again, not correct.

On 05.01.2023
68026/TP05 moved Scarborough-Longsight (it had been out based at Scarborough since 20.12.2022 due to the line being shut between Christmas and New Year, then the strikes)

68031/TP06 moved Longsight-Scarborough to be ready for the start of service today.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2023 ==

There was one with a set of mark 5s making a racket in the Scarborough bay at York when I passed through at about 11:20 this morning. Looked like people were boarding

I think you mean Mk5A stock.
Mk5 stock is used on the Caledonian Sleeper.

As per my earlier post, both 68031 and 68033 were working between Scarborough and York today.

68033/TP11 worked
1U43 1203 York-Scarborough

which I assume is the one you observed.

 

[Geeves]

Is that including the dead ones being dragged around by C37s?

Yes my mistake I was looking only at the Cleethorpes jobs which had none of the booked 68s on but did have 3 car 185s on, happy to be corrected on the Scarbs front.

How many are booked to work on the Cleethorpes work?

 

[sjpowermac]

Is that including the dead ones being dragged around by C37s?

Yes my mistake I was looking only at the Cleethorpes jobs which had none of the booked 68s on but did have 3 car 185s on, happy to be corrected on the Scarbs front.

How many are booked to work on the Cleethorpes work?

Incorrect (yet) again.

37608/TP12/68024 worked 5Q32 1225 Scarborough-Longsight on 19.12.2022, which if you check you will find was not a strike day.

The services booked for Class 68/Mk5A on the South Route are as follows:

1B64 0543 Manchester Airport-Cleethorpes
1B85 1524 Cleethorpes-Liverpool Lime Street

Anything else you would like to know?

 

[Geeves]

What was the reason for the 68s not appearing on their two diagrams on the south line?

So 4 sets booked out today and 50 percent failure rate? Not particularly good.

 

[sjpowermac]

What was the reason for the 68s not appearing on their two diagrams on the south line?

So 4 sets booked out today and 50 percent failure rate? Not particularly good.

Wrong, again.

68030/TP03 was on hand at Doncaster, available for service on the South Route.

Serviceable sets were available at Longsight, but the two north route diagrams and the south route diagram from there didn’t run on Monday and haven’t run today either.

On Tuesday 10.01.2023 the following are operating diagrams off Scarborough:
68031/TP06
68032/TP08
68033/TP11

 

[Geeves]

If the stand by was (or is) available why isn't it being used? Kinda defeats the object?

Right so no 68s on the south line again? It makes no difference if one is parked up in the sidings to the passengers.

 

[KevL]

Question. i think noticed, during the strike / holiday period (when york blockaded) that scarbro station seemed occasionally to have varying stock. i may be wrong as this was observed as i passed the station by car. Was there stock movement and if so did any of it go the long way around?

 

[sjpowermac]

If the stand by was (or is) available why isn't it being used? Kinda defeats the object?

Right so no 68s on the south line again? It makes no difference if one is parked up in the sidings to the passengers.

I don’t work for TPE, I’ve merely corrected your factually incorrect posts.

No Class 68s on the South Route today is correct.

At what point did I say the Class 68 at Doncaster was ‘on standby’? I said that it was available for traffic.

 

[Geeves]

You said "on hand" which took to mean "On stand by", my apologies

 

[sjpowermac]

Question. i think noticed, during the strike / holiday period (when york blockaded) that scarbro station seemed occasionally to have varying stock. i may be wrong as this was observed as i passed the station by car. Was there stock movement and if so did any of it go the long way around?

TPE are using their depot at Scarborough again and there was some shuffling of sets between the depot and the station. Over the Christmas to New Year period there were no other movements.

I think I’m correct in saying that the Scarborough-Hull line is cleared for Mk5a stock, but not the Class 68s.

Hope that helps

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2023 ==

You said "on hand" which took to mean "On stand by", my apologies

No apology needed. I can only assume, though I don’t know, that there was either no driver to move the Class 68/Mk5a set from Doncaster to Cleethorpes or that at some point in the diagram the staff rostered have not been trained on the sets.

If you have any further questions then I’ll be delighted to try and answer them to the best of my ability, but please keep in mind that I don’t work for TPE.

Hope that helps

 

[htafc]

I note that one Mk5a set (TP11) + 68033 made it south of York today on the TPE North route - an improvement at least...
Why are they so conspicuous in their absence at the moment?

 

[sjpowermac]

I note that one Mk5a set (TP11) + 68033 made it south of York today on the TPE North route - an improvement at least...
Why they are so conspicuous in their absence at the moment?

On the North Route, there are scheduled to be six daily diagrams.

One of those diagrams is (mainly) composed of trains that TPE suspended temporarily and said they would reinstate by February, as more staff completed their training (referring I think to new recruits to the industry).

There are two diagrams due to start from Scarborough station and two from Scarborough TMD. Today, three of those diagrams ran, one was covered by a Class 185.

The main problem the past two days has been that the two diagrams that start the day at Longsight have not run. Serviceable sets were available, but unfortunately:

1P05 0242 Manchester Piccadilly-York
1P07 0359 Manchester Airport-Scarborough

were both cancelled ‘due to a short notice change to the timetable’. This then leads to two diagrams being covered by Class 185s starting at York, despite there being Class 68/Mk5a sets available at Longsight.

Most days recently have seen TPE cancelling over 50 services, which 1P05 and 1P07 have got caught up in.

The diagrams are fairly intricate and cycle as follows for their start/end points:

Longsight/Scarborough
Scarborough/Scarborough TMD
Scarborough TMD/Longsight

with a further three sets due to follow the same cycle.

Knock out the two diagrams starting from Longsight and things soon get out of sync.

Sometimes sets do end up spending longer at Scarborough in order to try and cover the diagrams starting there, but the locos do need to visit Longsight periodically for servicing that isn’t possible at Scarborough TMD.

If there’s anything further I can help with then please do ask.

Hope that helps

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Not correct.

68031/TP06 and 68033/TP11 were working diagrams between Scarborough and York all day.

Hardly an achievement

 

[sjpowermac]

Hardly an achievement

Why did you direct that at me?
Have I said something that is factually incorrect?

Please explain the point that you are making and I’ll then do my best to formulate a reply.

I’ve set out in post #1332 the situation as I understand it. Is there anything that you wish to correct me on?

 

[htafc]

On the North Route, there are scheduled to be six daily diagrams.

One of those diagrams is (mainly) composed of trains that TPE suspended temporarily and said they would reinstate by February, as more staff completed their training (referring I think to new recruits to the industry).

There are two diagrams due to start from Scarborough station and two from Scarborough TMD. Today, three of those diagrams ran, one was covered by a Class 185.

The main problem the past two days has been that the two diagrams that start the day at Longsight have not run. Serviceable sets were available, but unfortunately:

1P05 0242 Manchester Piccadilly-York
1P07 0359 Manchester Airport-Scarborough

were both cancelled ‘due to a short notice change to the timetable’. This then leads to two diagrams being covered by Class 185s starting at York, despite there being Class 68/Mk5a sets available at Longsight.

Most days recently have seen TPE cancelling over 50 services, which 1P05 and 1P07 have got caught up in.

The diagrams are fairly intricate and cycle as follows for their start/end points:

Longsight/Scarborough
Scarborough/Scarborough TMD
Scarborough TMD/Longsight

with a further three sets due to follow the same cycle.

Knock out the two diagrams starting from Longsight and things soon get out of sync.

Sometimes sets do end up spending longer at Scarborough in order to try and cover the diagrams starting there, but the locos do need to visit Longsight periodically for servicing that isn’t possible at Scarborough TMD.

If there’s anything further I can help with then please do ask.

Hope that helps

Many thanks for the detailed explanation

 

[sjpowermac]

Many thanks for the detailed explanation

No problem, you are most welcome. As mentioned to @Geeves I don’t work for TPE, so I’m always happy if anyone has anything further to add

According to Journey Check:
11.01.2023
1P05 02:41 Manchester Piccadilly-Scarborough is cancelled again.

1P07 04:35 Manchester Piccadilly-Scarborough is booked to run.

Provided 1P07 does run that would at least get an extra set into play, together with the three that will end up at Scarborough this evening.

 

[Peter Sarf]

On the North Route, there are scheduled to be six daily diagrams.

One of those diagrams is (mainly) composed of trains that TPE suspended temporarily and said they would reinstate by February, as more staff completed their training (referring I think to new recruits to the industry).

There are two diagrams due to start from Scarborough station and two from Scarborough TMD. Today, three of those diagrams ran, one was covered by a Class 185.

The main problem the past two days has been that the two diagrams that start the day at Longsight have not run. Serviceable sets were available, but unfortunately:

1P05 0242 Manchester Piccadilly-York
1P07 0359 Manchester Airport-Scarborough

were both cancelled ‘due to a short notice change to the timetable’. This then leads to two diagrams being covered by Class 185s starting at York, despite there being Class 68/Mk5a sets available at Longsight.

Most days recently have seen TPE cancelling over 50 services, which 1P05 and 1P07 have got caught up in.

The diagrams are fairly intricate and cycle as follows for their start/end points:

Longsight/Scarborough
Scarborough/Scarborough TMD
Scarborough TMD/Longsight

with a further three sets due to follow the same cycle.

Knock out the two diagrams starting from Longsight and things soon get out of sync.

Sometimes sets do end up spending longer at Scarborough in order to try and cover the diagrams starting there, but the locos do need to visit Longsight periodically for servicing that isn’t possible at Scarborough TMD.

If there’s anything further I can help with then please do ask.

Hope that helps

Thanks for this. When I get time (and energy) I am going to check my spreadsheet against this. Looks familiar enough but I bet I have errors/tweaks to make. Also want to see how the reality settles down.

Hoping things bed in nicely by the end of February. Then I will figure out a day trip to York as that seems best location. Be nice of I pass/change/pause at Doncaster to coincide with a Cleethorpes working. Something to do late-winter/early-spring !. Roll on cheap offers.

You have reminded me of something I keep forgetting / ignoring. If one of the two early morning services don't run from Manchester (1P05 or 1P07 that start back at Longsight) that is three days in a row with 185s substituted.

From what you say, most of the failure to show of Mk5as would appear to be down to staffing difficulties ?.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Why did you direct that at me?
Have I said something that is factually incorrect?

I read that as being aimed at TPE, not you.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Why did you direct that at me?
Have I said something that is factually incorrect?

Please explain the point that you are making and I’ll then do my best to formulate a reply.

I’ve set out in post #1332 the situation as I understand it. Is there anything that you wish to correct me on?

Sorry if the post wasn’t clear - it wasn’t very clear looking back I’m saying that although you’re right in saying that it’s incorrect to suggest TPE didn’t get any 68s out, as all they managed to do was get them on the Scarborough York shuttles, it’s not a particularly great achievement by TPE there.

I read that as being aimed at TPE, not you.

Quite

 

[sjpowermac]

Sorry if the post wasn’t clear - it wasn’t very clear looking back

Thank you for your reply, greatly appreciated. Yes, I understand now what you are saying. I’ve tried to set out in post #1332 what I believe to be the mechanics behind the problem, but clearly there are other factors at work too

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2023 ==

Thanks for this. When I get time (and energy) I am going to check my spreadsheet against this. Looks familiar enough but I bet I have errors/tweaks to make. Also want to see how the reality settles down.

Hoping things bed in nicely by the end of February. Then I will figure out a day trip to York as that seems best location. Be nice of I pass/change/pause at Doncaster to coincide with a Cleethorpes working. Something to do late-winter/early-spring !. Roll on cheap offers.

You have reminded me of something I keep forgetting / ignoring. If one of the two early morning services don't run from Manchester (1P05 or 1P07 that start back at Longsight) that is three days in a row with 185s substituted.

From what you say, most of the failure to show of Mk5as would appear to be down to staffing difficulties ?.

I remember looking at your excellent work with the timetable and I’m sure you had it spot on.

Something that has caused problems is that some of the services were officially ‘suspended’ and that made for gaps in diagrams, interrupting the neatly planned sequence of the diagrams. That coupled with the regular cancellations of 1P05/1P07 and it’s something of a miracle that even a handful are working!

TPE on their website have been quoting a ‘training backlog, higher than usual staff sickness and industrial relations issues’. You asked a good question but I really don’t want to turn the thread into one that focuses on the IR aspects, since it’s hard as an outsider to really know what’s happening

On a different topic, from 31.01.2023 to 05.02.2023 (inclusive) there’s an engineering blockade between Malton and Scarborough.

Revised diagrams, just from following publicly available sources, below:

XML=Longsight
MAN=Manchester Piccadilly
LDS=Leeds
YRK=York
MLT=Malton
HBD=Hebden Bridge
CFD=Castleford

Tuesday-Friday

Class 68
5P05 0226 XML-MAN (0237)
1P05 0242 MAN-YRK (0511)
1U20 0538 YRK-MAN (0711)
1U31 0730 MAN-MLT (0927)
1U40 1012 MLT-YRK (1038)
1U43 1203 YRK- MLT (1228)
1U52 1312 MLT-MAN (1504)
1U63 1535 MAN-MLT (1728)
1U72 1812 MLT-LDS (1927) via CFD
1U75 1934 LDS-MLT (2028)
1U84 2123 MLT-YRK (2149)
1U83 2203 YRK-MLT (2227)
1P98 2311 MLT-MAN (0125) via HBD
5H98 0135 MAN-XML (0147)

Class 68
5P07 0410 XML-MAN
1P07 0435 MAN-MLT (0640)
1U28 0712 MLT-MAN (0910)
1U39 0935 MAN-MLT (1128)
1U48 1212 MLT-YRK (1238)
1U51 1403 YRK-MLT (1428)
1U60 1512 MLT-MAN (1712)
1U71 1730 MAN-MLT (1928)
1U80 2012 MLT-MAN (2212)
5H80 2226 MAN-XML (2237)

Class 185
5U23 0523 Ardwick-MAN (0529)
1U23 0535 MAN-MLT (0728)
1U32 0812 MLT-YRK (0938)
1U35 1003 YRK-MLT (1027)
1U44 1059 MLT-MAN (1304)
1U55 1335 MAN-MLT (1528)
1U64 1612 MLT-YRK (1638)
1U67 1803 YRK-MLT (1828)
1U76 1812 MLT-LDS (2004)
1U79 2035 LDS-MLT (2131)
1U88 2212 MLT-YRK (2238)

Class 185
1U27 0803 YRK-MLT (0827)
1U36 0909 MLT-MAN (1104)
1U47 1135 MAN-MLT (1328)
1U56 1412 MLT-YRK (1438)
1U59 1604 YRK-MLT (1629)
1U68 1712 MLT-MAN (1914)
5W68 1924 MAN-Ardwick

 

[df43101]

68022 1B64 05:43 Manchester Airport - Cleethorpes according to RTT

 

[sjpowermac]

12.01.2023
A much improved position today:
North Route
Ex-Longsight
68029
68019

Ex-Scarborough
68031
68032
68033

South Route
68022

So just one diagram covered by a 185 (as a result of service disruption earlier in the week)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

12.01.2023
A much improved position today:
North Route
Ex-Longsight
68029
68019

Ex-Scarborough
68031
68032
68033

South Route
68022

So just one diagram covered by a 185 (as a result of service disruption earlier in the week)

Very good news indeed, far more promising.

 

[theblackwatch]

12.01.2023
A much improved position today:
North Route
Ex-Longsight
68029
68019

Ex-Scarborough
68031
68032
68033

South Route
68022

So just one diagram covered by a 185 (as a result of service disruption earlier in the week)

At this rate, even I might manage to get out - my last attempt on January 2nd failed miserably!

 

[sjpowermac]

At this rate, even I might manage to get out - my last attempt on January 2nd failed miserably!

You have my sympathy with 02.01.2023. My planned trip to Liverpool turned into a Scarborough Shuffle!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2023 ==

Very good news indeed, far more promising.

Indeed

 

[BoroAndy]

Thank you for your reply, greatly appreciated. Yes, I understand now what you are saying. I’ve tried to set out in post #1332 what I believe to be the mechanics behind the problem, but clearly there are other factors at work too

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2023 ==


I remember looking at your excellent work with the timetable and I’m sure you had it spot on.

Something that has caused problems is that some of the services were officially ‘suspended’ and that made for gaps in diagrams, interrupting the neatly planned sequence of the diagrams. That coupled with the regular cancellations of 1P05/1P07 and it’s something of a miracle that even a handful are working!

TPE on their website have been quoting a ‘training backlog, higher than usual staff sickness and industrial relations issues’. You asked a good question but I really don’t want to turn the thread into one that focuses on the IR aspects, since it’s hard as an outsider to really know what’s happening

On a different topic, from 31.01.2023 to 05.02.2023 (inclusive) there’s an engineering blockade between Malton and Scarborough.

Revised diagrams, just from following publicly available sources, below:

XML=Longsight
MAN=Manchester Piccadilly
LDS=Leeds
YRK=York
MLT=Malton
HBD=Hebden Bridge
CFD=Castleford

Tuesday-Friday

Class 68
5P05 0226 XML-MAN (0237)
1P05 0242 MAN-YRK (0511)
1U20 0538 YRK-MAN (0711)
1U31 0730 MAN-MLT (0927)
1U40 1012 MLT-YRK (1038)
1U43 1203 YRK- MLT (1228)
1U52 1312 MLT-MAN (1504)
1U63 1535 MAN-MLT (1728)
1U72 1812 MLT-LDS (1927) via CFD
1U75 1934 LDS-MLT (2028)
1U84 2123 MLT-YRK (2149)
1U83 2203 YRK-MLT (2227)
1P98 2311 MLT-MAN (0125) via HBD
5H98 0135 MAN-XML (0147)

Class 68
5P07 0410 XML-MAN
1P07 0435 MAN-MLT (0640)
1U28 0712 MLT-MAN (0910)
1U39 0935 MAN-MLT (1128)
1U48 1212 MLT-YRK (1238)
1U51 1403 YRK-MLT (1428)
1U60 1512 MLT-MAN (1712)
1U71 1730 MAN-MLT (1928)
1U80 2012 MLT-MAN (2212)
5H80 2226 MAN-XML (2237)

Class 185
5U23 0523 Ardwick-MAN (0529)
1U23 0535 MAN-MLT (0728)
1U32 0812 MLT-YRK (0938)
1U35 1003 YRK-MLT (1027)
1U44 1059 MLT-MAN (1304)
1U55 1335 MAN-MLT (1528)
1U64 1612 MLT-YRK (1638)
1U67 1803 YRK-MLT (1828)
1U76 1812 MLT-LDS (2004)
1U79 2035 LDS-MLT (2131)
1U88 2212 MLT-YRK (2238)

Class 185
1U27 0803 YRK-MLT (0827)
1U36 0909 MLT-MAN (1104)
1U47 1135 MAN-MLT (1328)
1U56 1412 MLT-YRK (1438)
1U59 1604 YRK-MLT (1629)
1U68 1712 MLT-MAN (1914)
5W68 1924 MAN-Ardwick

Anyone know what the Seamer - Malton closure is for exactly?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thank you for your reply, greatly appreciated. Yes, I understand now what you are saying. I’ve tried to set out in post #1332 what I believe to be the mechanics behind the problem, but clearly there are other factors at work too

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2023 ==


I remember looking at your excellent work with the timetable and I’m sure you had it spot on.

Something that has caused problems is that some of the services were officially ‘suspended’ and that made for gaps in diagrams, interrupting the neatly planned sequence of the diagrams. That coupled with the regular cancellations of 1P05/1P07 and it’s something of a miracle that even a handful are working!

TPE on their website have been quoting a ‘training backlog, higher than usual staff sickness and industrial relations issues’. You asked a good question but I really don’t want to turn the thread into one that focuses on the IR aspects, since it’s hard as an outsider to really know what’s happening

On a different topic, from 31.01.2023 to 05.02.2023 (inclusive) there’s an engineering blockade between Malton and Scarborough.

Revised diagrams, just from following publicly available sources, below:

XML=Longsight
MAN=Manchester Piccadilly
LDS=Leeds
YRK=York
MLT=Malton
HBD=Hebden Bridge
CFD=Castleford

Tuesday-Friday

Class 68
5P05 0226 XML-MAN (0237)
1P05 0242 MAN-YRK (0511)
1U20 0538 YRK-MAN (0711)
1U31 0730 MAN-MLT (0927)
1U40 1012 MLT-YRK (1038)
1U43 1203 YRK- MLT (1228)
1U52 1312 MLT-MAN (1504)
1U63 1535 MAN-MLT (1728)
1U72 1812 MLT-LDS (1927) via CFD
1U75 1934 LDS-MLT (2028)
1U84 2123 MLT-YRK (2149)
1U83 2203 YRK-MLT (2227)
1P98 2311 MLT-MAN (0125) via HBD
5H98 0135 MAN-XML (0147)

Class 68
5P07 0410 XML-MAN
1P07 0435 MAN-MLT (0640)
1U28 0712 MLT-MAN (0910)
1U39 0935 MAN-MLT (1128)
1U48 1212 MLT-YRK (1238)
1U51 1403 YRK-MLT (1428)
1U60 1512 MLT-MAN (1712)
1U71 1730 MAN-MLT (1928)
1U80 2012 MLT-MAN (2212)
5H80 2226 MAN-XML (2237)

Class 185
5U23 0523 Ardwick-MAN (0529)
1U23 0535 MAN-MLT (0728)
1U32 0812 MLT-YRK (0938)
1U35 1003 YRK-MLT (1027)
1U44 1059 MLT-MAN (1304)
1U55 1335 MAN-MLT (1528)
1U64 1612 MLT-YRK (1638)
1U67 1803 YRK-MLT (1828)
1U76 1812 MLT-LDS (2004)
1U79 2035 LDS-MLT (2131)
1U88 2212 MLT-YRK (2238)

Class 185
1U27 0803 YRK-MLT (0827)
1U36 0909 MLT-MAN (1104)
1U47 1135 MAN-MLT (1328)
1U56 1412 MLT-YRK (1438)
1U59 1604 YRK-MLT (1629)
1U68 1712 MLT-MAN (1914)
5W68 1924 MAN-Ardwick

Thats a lot to digest !. Think I will see how late January works then get any spreadsheet tweaks done for February after the engineering.

12.01.2023
A much improved position today:
North Route
Ex-Longsight
68029
68019

Ex-Scarborough
68031
68032
68033

South Route
68022

So just one diagram covered by a 185 (as a result of service disruption earlier in the week)

Then again maybe I will digest earlier. After all what you report there really is only one short of perfection on each group of services. I should see if I am able to chase through the three days of one substitute. It does mean, currently, that one days hiccup hangs around for three days so only a single staffing issue has a three day knock on effect until there are plenty of staff signed on the new traction (and stock ?). But I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Any 68s due out on Saturday?

 

[Jamesrob637]

68022 1B64 05:43 Manchester Airport - Cleethorpes according to RTT

That service seems to only run and be a 68 once a week right now.

 

[df43101]

That service seems to only run and be a 68 once a week right now.

Better than nothing I suppose