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Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

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Wezz

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There will always be a few idiots, but the presence of the Train Manager within the passenger accommodation, rather than in the rear cab, should deter most from misbehaving.
I don't think a TM alone will be enough to deter the teenage yobs, especially on an 8 car service. Teenagers don't listen to staff now so that won't change when the TM role comes in.

We'll need penalty fares to deter people, and even that won't fully prevent it from happening.

Plus the TM position likely won't be a long-term thing, a lot of staff think it'll be done away with after a few years, including a few of my friends who are guards.
 
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Skie

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You can’t use a penalty fare to do anything but what it says on the tin, and Merseyrail is already a penalty fare area.

Having a member of staff present and visible on every train should have a positive long term effect on behaviour though, at least if they challenge people and kick them off at the next stop if they continue being idjits.
 

Bletchleyite

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Merseyrail have long been pushing to be allowed to issue fixed penalty notices for antisocial behaviour e.g. feet on seats, but so far they have not been afforded that opportunity so use the Courts instead.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Merseyrail have long been pushing to be allowed to issue fixed penalty notices for antisocial behaviour e.g. feet on seats, but so far they have not been afforded that opportunity so use the Courts instead.
Southern had an external security firm for a while prowling through the trains just keeping a presence on the routes with known problems far more useful than expecting a TM to deal with them.
 

Pacef8

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Yeh carlisle security and we know how good their pr is. Such as non acceptance of through travel tickets or paperless.
 

Skie

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Do these units have CCTV which could therefore be used to support fines etc?
Yep and it's viewable live from control and the BTP control room. Could be quite useful that if BTP actually bother to do anything but their usual turning up late or not at all.
 

adam_haddad40

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I’m confused I thought the M Metro logo was referring to the MetroCard which is the new name for the Walrus card… not that the whole Merseyrail network would be rebranded as ‘metro’?
 

Bletchleyite

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I’m confused I thought the M Metro logo was referring to the MetroCard which is the new name for the Walrus card… not that the whole Merseyrail network would be rebranded as ‘metro’?

It looks to me like the whole PTE will be branded Metro. The buses are to have it too.

This is all a bit boring when WYPTE is already Metro. What happened to originality? :)
 

OutdoorM

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Yeh carlisle security and we know how good their pr is. Such as non acceptance of through travel tickets or paperless.

Not got much love for Carlisle's approach, but isn't the non acceptance of paperless tickets due to following the current policy from Merseyrail? Ie that if you have a paperless ticket you must go into the ticket office and show your paperless ticket so that you are provided with a paper one.

It appears a very wasteful policy, adding expense (staffing costs), inconvenience to travelling public and environmentally damaging as there is a paper ticket needlessly produced. I wonder why that is there policy and why they don't change to accept e-tickets?

The CCTV on all new 777's should make travel at night feel safer though as I'm not sure if the guard or train manager would ever get involved if needed.
 

Liverpool 507

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Train Managers being present in the train will help deter anti social behaviour and make people feel safer. Has anything been disclosed on what the TMs will do exactly when they transition over to 777s?
 

Skie

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It appears a very wasteful policy, adding expense (staffing costs), inconvenience to travelling public and environmentally damaging as there is a paper ticket needlessly produced. I wonder why that is there policy and why they don't change to accept e-tickets?
To be fair to them, it's not entirely their fault. They don't have the kit to scan/validate QR codes and the TFN integrated smart travel project should have delivered a joined up system across networks, but funding was pulled just after Merseyrail had contactless readers installed as part of said project.

It's meant each area now has to come up with their own plan, so it is coming it just had to be picked up from the burning wreckage, dusted off and then delivered. Merseytravel don't do themselves any favours by being so silent though.
 

Liverpool 507

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To be fair to them, it's not entirely their fault. They don't have the kit to scan/validate QR codes and the TFN integrated smart travel project should have delivered a joined up system across networks, but funding was pulled just after Merseyrail had contactless readers installed as part of said project.

It's meant each area now has to come up with their own plan, so it is coming it just had to be picked up from the burning wreckage, dusted off and then delivered. Merseytravel don't do themselves any favours by being so silent though.
If Guards had the equipment and were permitted to do so, it would make a big difference and maintain presence in the train. It works for Northern and other local TOCs
 

8A Rail

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It looks to me like the whole PTE will be branded Metro. The buses are to have it too.

This is all a bit boring when WYPTE is already Metro. What happened to originality? :)

Absolutely spot on! I just don't understand it to be honest, it is Merseyrail, end of. (is not the system around Newcastle / North East known as the 'Metro' too?)
 

Peter Mugridge

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There are contradictory postings elsewhere which suggest that deliveries are being resumed... or not!!! One post says a 777 is being taken from Dollands Moor to Wembley on Tuesday while another post has it down as a light engine movement only.

Does anyone know which is correct, please?
 

Ribbleman

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Train Managers being present in the train will help deter anti social behaviour and make people feel safer. Has anything been disclosed on what the TMs will do exactly when they transition over to 777s?
I think it’s covered under another thread, “Role of onboard staff on Merseyrail Trains”, from May last year.
 

J006J

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Yep and it's viewable live from control and the BTP control room. Could be quite useful that if BTP actually bother to do anything but their usual turning up late or not at all.
You say that but there's usually 4 on. 6 on a good day, covering between Chester and Southport and the merseyrail network isn't the only area they cover from Liverpool
 

8A Rail

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There are contradictory postings elsewhere which suggest that deliveries are being resumed... or not!!! One post says a 777 is being taken from Dollands Moor to Wembley on Tuesday while another post has it down as a light engine movement only.

Does anyone know which is correct, please?
I am not aware of any as there no spare space to store Class 777's in the Merseyrail area. Yes could go to Crewe CS. However, my impression until dispute is resolved and MR start using Class 777's then there will be no further deliveries as need the withdrawal of Class 507 / 508's to create the space. However, others may have more up to date information / knowledge.
 

Peter Sarf

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I am not aware of any as there no spare space to store Class 777's in the Merseyrail area. Yes could go to Crewe CS. However, my impression until dispute is resolved and MR start using Class 777's then there will be no further deliveries as need the withdrawal of Class 507 / 508's to create the space. However, others may have more up to date information / knowledge.
I think there is a run tonight (early morning departure) from Dollands Moor to Wembley.


Or Willesden.

 

61653 HTAFC

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It looks to me like the whole PTE will be branded Metro. The buses are to have it too.

This is all a bit boring when WYPTE is already Metro. What happened to originality? :)
I've long held the opinion that "Metro" was a stupid name for West Yorkshire PTE, as there are three cities in the county, not just one. Perhaps it'll finally change if Merseyside is stealing the name... ;)
 

urbophile

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I've long held the opinion that "Metro" was a stupid name for West Yorkshire PTE, as there are three cities in the county, not just one. Perhaps it'll finally change if Merseyside is stealing the name... ;)
Urban rail systems across the world are usually known as Metro. West Yorkshire was (maybe still is) a 'metropolitan county' irrespective of the number of cities it contains. (Greater Manchester includes two; London two). What seems strange is labelling bus networks as well as trains Metro. But there is no obvious reason why not and we'll probably get used to it.
 

Bletchleyite

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Urban rail systems across the world are usually known as Metro. West Yorkshire was (maybe still is) a 'metropolitan county' irrespective of the number of cities it contains. (Greater Manchester includes two; London two). What seems strange is labelling bus networks as well as trains Metro. But there is no obvious reason why not and we'll probably get used to it.

There's a UK bus company called Metrobus. Plus in Germany the term Metrobus is used to describe high frequency bus services on consistent routes serving places without rail, as they're a bit like a rail based metro.
 

AlexNL

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And then there's Transport for Wales who have three "Metro" projects: South Wales, North Wales, and Swansea Bay & West Wales. It's a bit of a catch-all term by now for suburban and regional transport schemes.
 

Liverpool 507

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I am not aware of any as there no spare space to store Class 777's in the Merseyrail area. Yes could go to Crewe CS. However, my impression until dispute is resolved and MR start using Class 777's then there will be no further deliveries as need the withdrawal of Class 507 / 508's to create the space. However, others may have more up to date information / knowledge.
The current trend is those 777s that have completed FFR runs every so often are being stored at Southport and rotated when required. There is space for up to four 777s there.
 

Ribbleman

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The current trend is those 777s that have completed FFR runs every so often are being stored at Southport and rotated when required. There is space for up to four 777s there.
A couple of months ago I queried why use is not being made of other sidings at Southport and was told that they will be brought into use once Network Rail had given them some attention. I would think that at least a further 8 units could be accommodated there. All the 777 sets in the UK completed their FFR runs some months ago.
 

8A Rail

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The current trend is those 777s that have completed FFR runs every so often are being stored at Southport and rotated when required. There is space for up to four 777s there.
There are spare sidings in a few places but the problem is 'safety' and remaining untouched by grubby hands - that is the real issue. You could easily stable 8/10 units at Edge Hill Wapping, then onward movement is easy to Kirkdale but would you though?
 

Ribbleman

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There are spare sidings in a few places but the problem is 'safety' and remaining untouched by grubby hands - that is the real issue. You could easily stable 8/10 units at Edge Hill Wapping, then onward movement is easy to Kirkdale but would you though?
If the intention is to bring further sidings at Southport back into use, I would guess that consideration has been given as to what additional security will be required. Lighting in that area was improved just before COVID but clearly, further measures are needed. I haven’t been past recently so don’t know if NR have started the necessary track fettling.
 

Grumpy Git

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RR buses on the southern end of Northern Line this coming weekend and Central Station closed, (14th/15th Jan.). Is this to modify the reversing siding at Central?
 
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