Reading to Basingstoke Electrification?

[jackot]

Just come across this article on the National Grid website.

To support Network Rail to reinforce, future-proof, and decarbonise its electrical network, earlier this year, National Grid began work to install a Supergrid transformer at Bramley substation and connect it to a new trackside feeder station at Holly Cross.

The work is currently being done to connect the substation and the new trackside feeder, so does this mean that announcement of the electrification from Southcote Junction to Basingstoke Line is imminent, or am I misunderstanding this completely, or is electrification already planned? The cable running to the trackside feeder is 25kV which would suggest overhead electrification. Is this just being put in place in advance for electrification in the next 10-15 years, or is this indicative of a project starting within the next few years?

 

[waverley47]

Nothing officially announced yet which means one of three things:

This is part of a series of requests that Network Rail made to the National Grid for feeder stations and power supply upgrades. The fact that it's being built now means that it was ordered a while ago, as the lead time on pieces of kit like this is in the range of years.


This one would have been ordered ages ago, and is just now being connected to a piece of kit NR installed several years ago which currently sits unused, which means A: someone forgot to tell the National Grid it was no longer a priority or B: NR still want it in so that it's sitting there ready for any future announcement, exactly because the lead time is so long.


The third possibility, although very very remote, is that an announcement on electrification is expected from government imminently, and this is NR getting all the infrastructure they can set up in advance, so that it's simple running and relatively quick once the announcement is made.

 

[swt_passenger]

Just come across this article on the National Grid website.


The work is currently being done to connect the substation and the new trackside feeder, so does this mean that announcement of the electrification from Southcote Junction to Basingstoke Line is imminent, or am I misunderstanding this completely, or is electrification already planned? The cable running to the trackside feeder is 25kV which would suggest overhead electrification. Is this just being put in place in advance for electrification in the next 10-15 years, or is this indicative of a project starting within the next few years?

View attachment 126545

It’s always been planned, it provides supply resilience for the Reading area and was expected to be needed whether or not the line itself got electrified. So it doesn’t actually imply earlier overhead wires. The last published CP5 enhancement plans included it under the name Reading Independent Feeder (Bramley). That document said wiring to Basingstoke would not be done until after it was complete, but that statement doesn’t imply it will be done. IYSWIM.

It was discussed a few times when the GWML electrification project was ongoing, a few years ago, I will try and find a link.

 

[waverley47]

It’s always been planned, it provides supply resilience for the Reading area and was expected to be needed whether or not the line itself got electrified. So it doesn’t actually imply earlier overhead wires. The last published CP5 enhancement plans included it under the name Reading Independent Feeder (Bramley). That document said wiring to Basingstoke would not be done until after it was complete, but that statement doesn’t imply it will be done. IYSWIM.

It was discussed a few times when the GWML electrification project was ongoing, a few years ago, I will try and find a link.

Ah that would explain it

 

[swt_passenger]

Ah that would explain it

Here’s a post I made in 2020, it includes a bit from the enhancement plan:

Great Western Electrification Progress

Sorry if it’s been covered earlier - has a train, in passenger service or otherwise, run the full distance from Paddington to Cardiff or the other direction entirely on electric yet? No, still Diesel through Severn Tunnel until March(ish)

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It’s always been planned, it provides supply resilience for the Reading area and was expected to be needed whether or not the line itself got electrified. So it doesn’t actually imply earlier overhead wires. The last published CP5 enhancement plans included it under the name Reading Independent Feeder (Bramley). That document said wiring to Basingstoke would not be done until after it was complete, but that statement doesn’t imply it will be done. IYSWIM.

It was discussed a few times when the GWML electrification project was ongoing, a few years ago, I will try and find a link.

Argh i thought that was the case otherwise that is £20-30m for nothing let alone the cost for reserving capacity at supergrid substation. Presumably a 25-0-25 supply that will be run in cables upto Reading Triangle.

 

[59CosG95]

Argh i thought that was the case otherwise that is £20-30m for nothing let alone the cost for reserving capacity at supergrid substation. Presumably a 25-0-25 supply that will be run in cables upto Reading Triangle.

Or Southcote Jn; ISTR that Reading - Newbury was supposed to be AT-fed as well (and indeed all the sectioning locations have had their autotransformer bunds built). Southcote Jn was supposed to have a SATS (Sectioning AT Site) as well, so this may well tie into that.

Of course, the demise of the 769/9 programme for GWR might yet herald OLE towards Basingstoke...but this is mainly me living in hope.

 

[JonathanH]

Of course, the demise of the 769/9 programme for GWR might yet herald OLE towards Basingstoke...but this is mainly me living in hope.

Especially with three 'spare' 387s identified in the GWR fleet.

 

[Halish Railway]

It’s always been planned, it provides supply resilience for the Reading area and was expected to be needed whether or not the line itself got electrified. So it doesn’t actually imply earlier overhead wires. The last published CP5 enhancement plans included it under the name Reading Independent Feeder (Bramley). That document said wiring to Basingstoke would not be done until after it was complete, but that statement doesn’t imply it will be done. IYSWIM.

It was discussed a few times when the GWML electrification project was ongoing, a few years ago, I will try and find a link.

So is this a Southern/Western version of the Great Extension Lead which currently goes from Heyrod to Manchester Victoria, with the ability to power the electrification put in place as part of the TransPennine Route Upgrade?

 

[swt_passenger]

So is this a Southern/Western version of the Great Extension Lead which currently goes from Heyrod to Manchester Victoria, with the ability to power the electrification put in place as part of the TransPennine Route Upgrade?

I’m not familiar with the set up in Manchester so will leave the answer to others. I suppose the question is whether or not the great extension lead is essential to normal operations?

 

[WAO]

So is this a Southern/Western version of the Great Extension Lead which currently goes from Heyrod to Manchester Victoria, with the ability to power the electrification put in place as part of the TransPennine Route Upgrade?

Yes.

You can see the other end at the extensive compound to the South of the GWML just West of Reading Station.

There's a good reason for it (like the Heyrod link) in that an errant branch line pigeon etc could take out long lengths of main line.

WAO

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I’m not familiar with the set up in Manchester so will leave the answer to others. I suppose the question is whether or not the great extension lead is essential to normal operations?

doubt it with reduced service levels now but might as well plug it in and get the freight hauliers using their 93/99's working on GWR

 

[fandroid]

Back when the GWML electrification was underway and the "Electric Spine" was still a possibility (Basingstoke-Reading was part of that) I remember seeing what looked serious cable-laying going on in the Burghfield area just outside the railway boundary on the west side. I assumed then that was part of a potential power link from Bramley.

With the imminent opening of Reading Green Park station, the local shuttle timetable has been relaxed to include long stopovers at Basingstoke (they used to turn around in a few mins) and three DMUs allocated to the service instead of two. I assume that two EMUs could easily handle the extra station stop. Not exactly a compelling business case but just another example of the opportunities and benefits a wider spread of the GW electrification would have brought.

 

[zwk500]

Back when the GWML electrification was underway and the "Electric Spine" was still a possibility (Basingstoke-Reading was part of that) I remember seeing what looked serious cable-laying going on in the Burghfield area just outside the railway boundary on the west side. I assumed then that was part of a potential power link from Bramley.

With the imminent opening of Reading Green Park station, the local shuttle timetable has been relaxed to include long stopovers at Basingstoke (they used to turn around in a few mins) and three DMUs allocated to the service instead of two. I assume that two EMUs could easily handle the extra station stop. Not exactly a compelling business case but just another example of the opportunities and benefits a wider spread of the GW electrification would have brought.

In the scheme of things, this 'extension cord' is not that much money, and the feder station reduces future costs that would be attributable to the Reading Basingstoke electrification.
It's not going to happen for a while, but every little helps.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

In the scheme of things, this 'extension cord' is not that much money, and the feder station reduces future costs that would be attributable to the Reading Basingstoke electrification.
It's not going to happen for a while, but every little helps.

Still needs real cash that can't be spent elsewhere but given the long lead times on supergrid connections not much that could have been done on this occasion to have foreseen the reduction in traffic.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I’m not familiar with the set up in Manchester so will leave the answer to others. I suppose the question is whether or not the great extension lead is essential to normal operations?

It's also similar to the grid connection at Melksham, which feeds the GW OHLE which currently terminates east of Chippenham.
It was intended to feed the route via Bath to Bistol TM.

 

[Bikeman78]

With the imminent opening of Reading Green Park station, the local shuttle timetable has been relaxed to include long stopovers at Basingstoke (they used to turn around in a few mins) and three DMUs allocated to the service instead of two. I assume that two EMUs could easily handle the extra station stop. Not exactly a compelling business case but just another example of the opportunities and benefits a wider spread of the GW electrification would have brought.

The 387s will also cope a lot better on slippery rails than the 165s. For as long as I can remember, the Reading to Basingstoke timetable has fallen apart on wet autumn days.

 

[Snow1964]

Without the substation, wouldn’t be enough capacity for freight (not that there is much electric freight currently).

There were aspirations (possibly still are, but not so urgent) of an electric spine for freight to Southampton docks and consideration of electric aggregates trains from Westbury + Frome area (it’s in Western decarbonisation strategy)

Class 99s are 6000kw, so a double headed train would be fairly power hungry. For those that remember pairs of 87s hauling freight on West Coast main line, they were about 7200kw (for a pair, not each)

I suspect once commissioned, the Bramley feeder substation would allow not just electrification to Basingstoke, but could probably get a long way towards Salisbury too without needing further feeder stations.

 

[zwk500]

Without the substation, wouldn’t be enough capacity for freight (not that there is much electric freight currently).

There's bigger problems than the power supply for electric freight, some of which are in the process of being addressed.

There were aspirations (possibly still are, but not so urgent) of an electric spine for freight to Southampton docks and consideration of electric aggregates trains from Westbury + Frome area (it’s in Western decarbonisation strategy)

Electric spine is very dead. The Decarbonisation strategies weren't funded either, so wouldn't put too much faith in them (sorry to be a downer)

Class 99s are 6000kw, so a double headed train would be fairly power hungry. For those that remember pairs of 87s hauling freight on West Coast main line, they were about 7200kw (for a pair, not each)

Single 92s are bad enough, it seems, but really an OLE-equipped line wouldn't be the biggest concern...

I suspect once commissioned, the Bramley feeder substation would allow not just electrification to Basingstoke, but could probably get a long way towards Salisbury too without needing further feeder stations.

The 3rd rail at Basingstoke would! Dual Voltage from Basingstoke to Worting Junction would be horrifically expensive to provide especially if you've got massive power imbalances over one system. Conversion of the Basingstoke area to OLE-only then provides you with more headaches about how far towards Winchester and Woking you push the traction changeovers, etc. Given the current financial state of the industry it isn't going to happen for a long time.

The most likely thing to happen is OLE from Reading to Basingstoke P5 (maybe also P4), for the passenger service. Electric freight would need to wait until Birmingham-Didcot is wired, although you could have a Dual-voltage loco with last-mile capability taking advantage of the wires. But the business case for primarily freight use would be terrible.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's also similar to the grid connection at Melksham, which feeds the GW OHLE which currently terminates east of Chippenham.
It was intended to feed the route via Bath to Bistol TM.

Yes, I was aware of that, but AIUI that “along the track feed” is essential to normal operations of the GWML. It wasn’t just for powering the Bath route, but if that had been wired it would still have had its current purpose as well.

But in the absence of further wiring the Bramley independent feeder is an extra supply for redundancy, as is explained in the CP5 extract posted in the thread I linked to in post #5.

Then the purpose of my reply in post #10 was to say I wasn’t in a position to answer the question, because I wasn’t really aware of the Manchester feed’s main use..

 

[cle]

There could be platform work at Basingstoke (either a p6 build, or p5 extension, or a second, longer bay in between 4 and 5) which could serve other services.

Right now, the wires for 2tph Basingstoke-Reading aren't especially viable in themeselves, but if Green Park explodes and there are good fleet commonality reasons with the Reading-Newbury shuttles, or Didcot/Oxford/even WRATH / EWR / fast GWR Padd services of future - so much has been touted - then it might be that more could go through there.

Or just a 3tph shuttle. Not to mention, better line speeds.

 

[WAO]

The 3rd rail at Basingstoke would! Dual Voltage from Basingstoke to Worting Junction would be horrifically expensive to provide especially if you've got massive power imbalances over one system. Conversion of the Basingstoke area to OLE-only then provides you with more headaches about how far towards Winchester and Woking you push the traction changeovers, etc. Given the current financial state of the industry it isn't going to happen for a long time.

The most likely thing to happen is OLE from Reading to Basingstoke P5 (maybe also P4), for the passenger service. Electric freight would need to wait until Birmingham-Didcot is wired, although you could have a Dual-voltage loco with last-mile capability taking advantage of the wires. But the business case for primarily freight use would be terrible.

A strategic choice would have been to convert the whole Pirbright Junction to Bournemouth DC scheme and its Weymouth extension to AC overhead, cascading some dual voltage stock and avoiding the route's DC power upgrade - an investment in mediocrity. That would probably have then justified Basingstoke to Reading and then North from Wolvercote Jn to B'ham for both passenger and freight workings.

NR might then have argued for its DC infills to ORR on the grounds that it had reduced DC mileage and its attendant risk.

But this is England.

WAO

 

[zwk500]

A strategic choice would have been to convert the whole Pirbright Junction to Bournemouth DC scheme and its Weymouth extension to AC overhead, cascading some dual voltage stock and avoiding the route's DC power upgrade - an investment in mediocrity.

Strategic maybe, but where is the Golden Goose? We're not the only country to be lumbered with the rash design choices of the past (look at European electrification or signalling problems) although 3rd rail may be the most extreme example of it. Conversion may yet come - but I won't hold my breath to see it in my lifetime.

That would probably have then justified Basingstoke to Reading and then North from Wolvercote Jn to B'ham for both passenger and freight workings.

Hmm, not sure about north of Banbury tbh. 1 XC per hour and various bits of freight, most of which needs other electrification and last-mile capability to transfer. I have several ways it could just-about-if-you-squeeze-it work, but that would be for a Speculative thread.

NR might then have argued for its DC infills to ORR on the grounds that it had reduced DC mileage and its attendant risk.

This wouldn't have washed.

 

[fgwrich]

There's bigger problems than the power supply for electric freight, some of which are in the process of being addressed.

Electric spine is very dead. The Decarbonisation strategies weren't funded either, so wouldn't put too much faith in them (sorry to be a downer)

Single 92s are bad enough, it seems, but really an OLE-equipped line wouldn't be the biggest concern...

The 3rd rail at Basingstoke would! Dual Voltage from Basingstoke to Worting Junction would be horrifically expensive to provide especially if you've got massive power imbalances over one system. Conversion of the Basingstoke area to OLE-only then provides you with more headaches about how far towards Winchester and Woking you push the traction changeovers, etc. Given the current financial state of the industry it isn't going to happen for a long time.

The most likely thing to happen is OLE from Reading to Basingstoke P5 (maybe also P4), for the passenger service. Electric freight would need to wait until Birmingham-Didcot is wired, although you could have a Dual-voltage loco with last-mile capability taking advantage of the wires. But the business case for primarily freight use would be terrible.

I know this is all rather academic, but if the Acton bank could be wired, would that help Reading > Basingstoke for Midlands to Southampton freight? As for Basingstoke, I think you'd need at least wires into Platform 4 or as mentioned by @cle a Platform 6 (which has been long wanted for a while as part of a solution to replace the crossover), it's happened on quite a few occasions where there's been an issue with the point's into Platform 5, resulting in the Great Western using 2/3/4 instead.

 

[zwk500]

I know this is all rather academic, but if the Acton bank could be wired, would that help Reading > Basingstoke for Midlands to Southampton freight?

Not really. You'd still need to fix last-mile haulage and if you've got that you could use that capability to bridge the gap up Acton Bank. Southampton traffic for anywhere in the West mids or further north tends to go via Banbury anyway. If you wanted to help Southampton freight to the WCML convert to electric I'd say Didcot-Oxford + EWR gives better value for money.

 

[WAO]

Strategic maybe, but where is the Golden Goose? We're not the only country to be lumbered with the rash design choices of the past (look at European electrification or signalling problems) although 3rd rail may be the most extreme example of it. Conversion may yet come - but I won't hold my breath to see it in my lifetime.

Hmm, not sure about north of Banbury tbh. 1 XC per hour and various bits of freight, most of which needs other electrification and last-mile capability to transfer. I have several ways it could just-about-if-you-squeeze-it work, but that would be for a Speculative thread.

This wouldn't have washed.

I suggest that the "Golden Goose" may be in the Southampton container traffic. The port accounts for nearly half of UK container trade with rail moving only about 25%. Most of the rest takes the dubious M3/A34.

(We had more than one XC per hour North of Banbury, pre-Covid. From Leamington Spa we are in prosperous commuter territory.)

HNY!

WAO

 

[zwk500]

I suggest that the "Golden Goose" may be in the Southampton container traffic. The port accounts for nearly half of UK container trade with rail moving only about 25%. Most of the rest takes the dubious M3/A34.

Southampton container traffic will not be laying any eggs worth doing more with than scrambling to the railway, I'm afraid. It'll be the Southampton commuter and Bournemouth traffic that drives any change.

(We had more than one XC per hour North of Banbury, pre-Covid. From Leamington Spa we are in prosperous commuter territory.)

Of course XC depends on other electrification around it such as Birmingham-Derby-Doncaster/Leeds as well, the business case for Banbury will be from Chiltern.

HNY!

To you as well!

 

[HSTEd]

A strategic choice would have been to convert the whole Pirbright Junction to Bournemouth DC scheme and its Weymouth extension to AC overhead, cascading some dual voltage stock and avoiding the route's DC power upgrade - an investment in mediocrity. That would probably have then justified Basingstoke to Reading and then North from Wolvercote Jn to B'ham for both passenger and freight workings.

When the choice is £1 on mediocrity or £10 on somewhat better performance, I think I would chose the £1.

The 25kV programme has been an unmitigated series of catastrophes, ripping out serviceable electrification to replace it with 25kV would be... brave.

You could pay for power upgrades to run Class 92s all day for far less than a conversion, even assuming the project actually managed to finish on budget for once.

DC-to-AC conversion is being abandoned by just about everyone globally. The French and Dutch have both given up entirely in favour of higher voltage DC solutions

EDIT: Given that freight operators pay only £45m/yr total to Network Rail for track access et al, it's implausible that freight could be used to make any kind of business case without application of trainloads of fudge.

 

[The Ham]

Back when the GWML electrification was underway and the "Electric Spine" was still a possibility (Basingstoke-Reading was part of that) I remember seeing what looked serious cable-laying going on in the Burghfield area just outside the railway boundary on the west side. I assumed then that was part of a potential power link from Bramley.

With the imminent opening of Reading Green Park station, the local shuttle timetable has been relaxed to include long stopovers at Basingstoke (they used to turn around in a few mins) and three DMUs allocated to the service instead of two. I assume that two EMUs could easily handle the extra station stop. Not exactly a compelling business case but just another example of the opportunities and benefits a wider spread of the GW electrification would have brought.

It would appear that whilst longer (by about 12m) the 387's have fewer seats (224 vs 288), however how useful those extra seats, when they are 3+2, is open for debate.

However where it could work well (and bearing in mind the reduced XC running on the line) could be to allow the use of DMU's elsewhere and the running if 3tph by GWR by using 3 EMU's.

Given the limited route length and the lack of junction complexity it should be a fairly easy line to put wires up on.

Yes there maybe the need for a smallish amount of overlap of third rail at the Basingstoke end to allow other platform use (although a small battery within the trains for getting across any short gap may make the engineering less complex).

There's a need for such easy wins to be delivered fairly soon to meet out net zero targets (as not doing so could be more expensive when trying to extract carbon from the atmosphere).

 

[Ken H]

Could the bramley feeder also have a high voltage extension lead to a new Basingstoke substation to beef up the 3rd rail juice in that area? Or am I being too speculative?