Disruption - running fast to make up time

[ChiefPlanner]

Indeed, it is one of life’s pleasures to correctly anticipate Control making an all stations St Albans starter run non stop to St P.

That is a rare treat ......but the old practice of "non stop" to Bedford has been drastically altered (or was) , in making very late Bedford's to call maybe only at Luton Airport Parkway , as if anyone deserved a bit less stress on their journey is airport passengers ......(less stress till they get to the Airport anyway)

Perhaps one of the rarest bits of late running recovery has to be a southbound Sutton loop one day - very late and no chance of going round the loop either way and with the northbound approaching , they took a clever move of "non stop" to West Croydon and back in service from there "fast" to the Elephant thence as booked. Good move and most folk got home for dinner without too much grief. (with apologies for loop passengers disenfranchised)

"Service recovery" was first experimented with on Thameslink - and in many cases has paid off , though care has to be watched for the interests of the passenger.

 

[RunRepeat]

Yesterday I travelled on 14.00 1P34 out of Liverpool Street to Colchester. Service was delayed by 13 mins at Stratford unusually on the Up Main platform while a couple of freights crossed over towards the North London line. After some lively driving we arrived in Colchester only +8, the service arriving at Norwich only +1. Those 745s can shift, and it highlights how much slack there is in the current timetable.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Noticed on RTT yesterday that a Plymouth - Paddington service (1A90) started from Exeter almost an hour late, and ran non-stop to Reading, closely followed by a Penzance service (1A92) that made the usual stops at Tiverton, Taunton etc. This seems to me a sensible thing to do, as it would result in passengers being better distributed between the two trains. If both trains had made all their booked stops, the first would have been packed and the second much emptier.

 

[334033]

Yesterday morning I had to let a Shenfield bound Elizabeth Line train go from Tottenham Court Road because it was running fast from Stratford to Romford as a result of delays on the line. I got on the next Shenfield train though, although it ran fast from Romford to Shenfield.

 

[satisnek]

I caught a late-running Dorridge service from Kidderminster up to Birmingham the other day. Upon arrival at Snow Hill an announcement was made that it would be running non-stop from Moor Street to Dorridge. Hang on, I thought, isn't Solihull the busiest station along that route? Yes it is, by a very large margin - I've just looked it up. So wouldn't Solihull and Dorridge only have been the best compromise?

 

[Lifelong]

Quite an exaggerated example this morning. Guildford to Havant non-stop, missing out everywhere. Unfortunately not only was a stop at Godalming on the info screens at Guildford, it was announced and not contradicted by the guard during the Guildford stop (he did apologise). Just the 90 minutes for a 6 minute journey...

 

[Kite159]

I caught a late-running Dorridge service from Kidderminster up to Birmingham the other day. Upon arrival at Snow Hill an announcement was made that it would be running non-stop from Moor Street to Dorridge. Hang on, I thought, isn't Solihull the busiest station along that route? Yes it is, by a very large margin - I've just looked it up. So wouldn't Solihull and Dorridge only have been the best compromise?

Depends if another train towards Dorridge was right behind it and also the turnaround time at Dorridge.
But agreed Solihull as well would have been more sensible.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yesterday ( 19th ) I had a non stop run from Victoria to Sutton on 377 705 with the 15.11 Victoria - Dorking; it left 7 minutes late and unsurprisingly reached Sutton on time.

 

[Railperf]

I was on an Elizabeth line service delayed at Shenfield departing 10 late. No stops skipped to try and make it to the core slot on time despite the following service also being late and running immediately behind. The driving was equally relaxed. No press -on style. Therefore arrival at Stratford was still 10 late.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2022 ==

Yesterday I travelled on 14.00 1P34 out of Liverpool Street to Colchester. Service was delayed by 13 mins at Stratford unusually on the Up Main platform while a couple of freights crossed over towards the North London line. After some lively driving we arrived in Colchester only +8, the service arriving at Norwich only +1. Those 745s can shift, and it highlights how much slack there is in the current timetable.

There are 5.5 mins of recovery time on the schedule to Colchester mainly due to the Braintree service ahead being brought to a halt outside Witham waiting for a London service to come off the branch and onto the main line before it can access the loop platform. The sectional running times seem conservative. 6.5 min Colchester to Manningtree is probably the tightest..but Manningtree to Ipswich 10 mins can be achieved in under 8 with an unimpeded run. Similarly you can knock 2 to 3 min off Ipswich to Diss. And Diss to Norwich is doable in 15.5 mins compared to 17 scheduled - provided no conflicts on the approach.
In practice you can often find a late running freight gets in the way somewhere. I experienced a few runs brought to a halt outside Ipswich awaiting a free platform.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Yesterday, I was on an up Javelin (the 1020 from Ramsgate), 19 mins late by Faversham, still 15 late at Strood, but then skipped Gravesend, Ebbsfleet and Stratford, resulting in a 26-minute start-to-stop time from Strood-St Pancras versus the timetabled 34 minutes, arriving 7 late.
Announced as "delayed due to a speed restriction", and the missed stops announced on the platform. On arriving at St Pancras, the guard announced "if anyone wants Stratford, stay on board, we're the next one out".
Useful for me, ensuring my connection for the north was made, but not good for people left behind at Gravesend, as the St Pancras service is only hourly at that time of day

That run gave an average speed of 74mph for the journey from Strood to St P, i.e. an average that was higher than the max 70 mph line speed on the classic section, let alone the 15mph curve into Strood tunnel and the 30(?) through Gravesend. Voltage change was done on the move at Ebbsfleet.

 

[bramling]

Yesterday, I was on an up Javelin (the 1020 from Ramsgate), 19 mins late by Faversham, still 15 late at Strood, but then skipped Gravesend, Ebbsfleet and Stratford, resulting in a 26-minute start-to-stop time from Strood-St Pancras versus the timetabled 34 minutes, arriving 7 late.
Announced as "delayed due to a speed restriction", and the missed stops announced on the platform. On arriving at St Pancras, the guard announced "if anyone wants Stratford, stay on board, we're the next one out".
Useful for me, ensuring my connection for the north was made, but not good for people left behind at Gravesend, as the St Pancras service is only hourly at that time of day

That run gave an average speed of 74mph for the journey from Strood to St P, i.e. an average that was higher than the max 70 mph line speed on the classic section, let alone the 15mph curve into Strood tunnel and the 30(?) through Gravesend. Voltage change was done on the move at Ebbsfleet.

That does seem to be an example of how to do it. Where possible the objective shouldn’t be to get the train arriving at destination on time, but to claw back just enough so that the train and driver are roughly on time for their next trip. If there is no time pressure on either of these factors then really it shouldn’t happen.

 

[eastwestdivide]

That does seem to be an example of how to do it. Where possible the objective shouldn’t be to get the train arriving at destination on time, but to claw back just enough so that the train and driver are roughly on time for their next trip. If there is no time pressure on either of these factors then really it shouldn’t happen.

Yeah, it was "best of a bad job" I think. It turned round and left on time according to RTT.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The 0924 Piccadilly to Buxton was meant to be a 4-car class 150 set yesterday, but the front 2 carriages had to be taken off due apparently to problems with the sanding mechanism.

The train eventually left 39 mins down and ran fast, stopping only at Stockport and Hazel Grove. It arrived in Buxton just 20 mins down. Passengers for intermediate stations had to wait for the 1008.

I had planned to use the very sparsely served Ellesmere Port - Helsby line in both directions going from Little Sutton to Buxton FC and back - and in time for the 1230 kick off. But my plans to do this elusive double were thwarted by the cancellation of the return 1806 HSB-ELP working, which I suspect is hardly a rare occurrence.

 

[IanXC]

Passengers for intermediate stations had to wait for the 1008.

Passengers for intermediate stations had to wait 5 minutes for the 1008.

 

[TUC]

I think this has been discussed in great depth before...

Yesterday I got caught up with the SWR disruption caused by a trespasser on the tracks near Wandsworth Town.. My 1520 departure from Waterloo sat at Clapham Junction for half an hour while it was sorted (whether there actually was a trespasser or just a potential one I don't know). The decision was taken that it would run fast Staines/Ascot/Reading. I got off at Ascot and then waited (and shivered) there for another half hour until the equally delayed following train came to take me to Martins Heron.

I know they have to try and get their timetables back on track (and it seems in this case the disruption was relatively short lived) but they also have a duty to get their passengers to their destination. There were a lot those sitting waiting at the intermediate stations who could have not been left stranded. What for me could have been a 30 minute delay turned out to be well over an hour. At least the delay replay is in...

Our guard was very helpful all the time with announcements and guidance but I got the impression that even he didn't really know what was going on.

Thoughts?

It also begs the question, when these decisions are made after the train is already en route, of what passengers with assistance needs are meant to do if the train no longer stops at the station where they were travelling to, and the nearest station where the train will now stop is unstaffed? Are they meant to endure an even longer journey to a further station where there is staff?

 

[Horizon22]

It also begs the question, when these decisions are made after the train is already en route, of what passengers with assistance needs are meant to do if the train no longer stops at the station where they were travelling to, and the nearest station where the train will now stop is unstaffed? Are they meant to endure an even longer journey to a further station where there is staff?

You tend not to skip the stop required then. Normally the destination staff or guard will call up to Control and say "um we're meant to be assisting a passenger off 1A01 at Station B" (if they didn't already know and have an internal chat about it. If it really can't be avoided (e.g. diversion or station closure for whatever reason), the passenger would have to circulate back. Sometimes the relevant controller doesn't even know there is assistance on-board so decisions can only me made with the information at hand.

 

[Graham H]

Quite an exaggerated example this morning. Guildford to Havant non-stop, missing out everywhere. Unfortunately not only was a stop at Godalming on the info screens at Guildford, it was announced and not contradicted by the guard during the Guildford stop (he did apologise). Just the 90 minutes for a 6 minute journey...

I did a Guildford to Fratton non stop one once due to late running. Even missed out the Havant stop despite the interchange possibilities. I do wonder if skip stop is worth it though as we only reduced the lateness by 7 minutes at Fratton

 

[bramling]

I did a Guildford to Fratton non stop one once due to late running. Even missed out the Havant stop despite the interchange possibilities. I do wonder if skip stop is worth it though as we only reduced the lateness by 7 minutes at Fratton

It *can* be worth it if it means the train and/or crew have a timely start to the next journey. The dark art of recovery is to do just enough to allow things to recover naturally. Only works if done right though, sounds like in your example it might not have been.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It also begs the question, when these decisions are made after the train is already en route, of what passengers with assistance needs are meant to do if the train no longer stops at the station where they were travelling to, and the nearest station where the train will now stop is unstaffed? Are they meant to endure an even longer journey to a further station where there is staff?

When it happened to a train I had intended to travel on, (from Waterloo) the platform staff and train crew took so long finding a ramp to detrain the passenger that any time saving that might have been gained by running fast to Teddington had already been lost before it ever left Waterloo. Further delay was caused to the train everyone had to transfer to whilst they looked for a ramp to fit that train (455s and 707s use different ramps - and 450s and 458s and doubtless 701s use different ones too). The obvious solution, of skipping all stations except the one the wheelchair user wanted, never seemed to occur to anyone.

 

[ComUtoR]

The obvious solution, of skipping all stations except the one the wheelchair user wanted, never seemed to occur to anyone.

What about all the stops, all the other passengers want/need ?

 

[Falcon1200]

The obvious solution, of skipping all stations except the one the wheelchair user wanted, never seemed to occur to anyone.

Perhaps Control, who made the decision to run the train fast, were unaware that a wheelchair passenger needed detraining until it was already happening, and therefore too late to change the arrangement?

 

[norbitonflyer]

What about all the stops, all the other passengers want/need ?

Well indeed. Although if a train is so delayed that the next one will be right behind, (as was the case here) they will not be delayed much more anyway. It also helps to spread the load, as everyone who intended to travel to the skipped stops on either train will use the second, and anyone who intended to travel on either train to the stations beyond the skipped stretch can use the delayed first one.

 

[zwk500]

Perhaps Control, who made the decision to run the train fast, were unaware that a wheelchair passenger needed detraining until it was already happening, and therefore too late to change the arrangement?

Then the processes need to be amended to make sure that those requiring assistance are accounted for. No point having even the best of plans if the execution is impossible.

This is yet more evidence that the railway needs to sort out its accessibility and assistance provisions properly. Either provide the infrastructure for passengers to move themselves around the network freely or provide a network wide assistance management system so that control can see where problems might occur.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Perhaps Control, who made the decision to run the train fast, were unaware that a wheelchair passenger needed detraining until it was already happening, and therefore too late to change the arrangement?

Then the train crew and/or dispatchers should have informed Control of the situation. They are colleagues, not omniscient omnipotent Gods. If they give an instruction which those on the ground see won't work (and I've seen a few), they should be prepared to challenge it.

 

[Falcon1200]

Then the processes need to be amended to make sure that those requiring assistance are accounted for. No point having even the best of plans if the execution is impossible.

I agree. I was always very keen when instigating trains running express to ensure that the decision was made as early as possible, so that the train's reduced stops could be advertised well in advance and preferably before the train was advertised on departure screens; Not always possible depending on the circumstances. However it would I think be a fairly rare event for running express to be arranged so late, and in such a way, that an already-boarded wheelchair passenger had then to be detrained. It would of course have been simpler for the train to simply make one extra stop at that person's station, but that would have taken time to understand, agree and arrange.

 

[ComUtoR]

Well indeed. Although if a train is so delayed that the next one will be right behind, (as was the case here) they will not be delayed much more anyway. It also helps to spread the load, as everyone who intended to travel to the skipped stops on either train will use the second, and anyone who intended to travel on either train to the stations beyond the skipped stretch can use the delayed first one.

Assuming both trains are in the platform...

It doesn't spread the load. It causes more delays with passengers who decide/need to switch trains. Problems on the platforms as people transfer, additional confusions, and one train tends to end up overloaded.

With delays, it's always important to look at the big picture.

 

[Horizon22]

Assuming both trains are in the platform...

It doesn't spread the load. It causes more delays with passengers who decide/need to switch trains. Problems on the platforms as people transfer, additional confusions, and one train tends to end up overloaded.

With delays, it's always important to look at the big picture.

The real “big picture” of course being well beyond that specific train or two including the trains around it, any conflicts en route, the return working, the crew and infrastructure implications etc.

It would be very standard to run a train fast on a 4tph service that is currently 10-15 minutes late whilst the next one is right behind it. Best to run it fast from more of a “hub station” as opposed to some shack, but in that scenario, considering the one behind it is on-time, the time passengers will be delayed additionally is minimal. And it might have a significant benefit to the rest of the service.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

With delays, it's always important to look at the big picture.

Is the "big picture", more often than not, the course of action/inaction that optimises the cost implications for the individual TOC?

 

[zwk500]

Is the "big picture", more often than not, the course of action/inaction that optimises the cost implications for the individual TOC?

Yes, although as those costs are linked to late running, the big picture is also about getting back to the published plan as soon as reasonably possible

 

[norbitonflyer]

Assuming both trains are in the platform...

It doesn't spread the load. It causes more delays with passengers who decide/need to switch trains. Problems on the platforms as people transfer, additional confusions, and one train tends to end up overloaded.

With delays, it's always important to look at the big picture.

It may do, but if it is announced clearly before boarding starts that one will run fast to X and the other will be all stations, everyone for X and beyond will choose the fast one, and everyone for the intermediate stations will, perforce, use the other one. On a 4tph service few people go for a specific train anyway.
Of course if the decision is made after boarding starts or, even worse, en route, it can cause major disruption. I have seen a train terminated short without warning, with another train right behind BUT, no time was allowed for people to pass through the subway between the platform the terminating train had arrived and the one the following train called at.