Staff abusing 1st class travel privileges

[O L Leigh]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe Greenback wasn't doing it right.

O L Leigh

 

[scotsman]

1) XC bloke sitting in reserved seat and not automatically shifting when the paying customer boarded. Instead, she was told - 'It's OK, I'm getting off at the next stop'.

Wrong. Not acceptable.

2) A group of EC staff having a 'works party' at the end of the carriage nearest the buffet. Everyone else in the carriage was fuming.

Elaborate please. I can't see a problem with this.

3) Various XC and FCC coming off shift, forgetting that paying customer were trying to concentrate on their work, laughing and joking.

Perhaps paying customers would like to tell the staff, since their crystal ball is clearly broken. Shame on them though, laughing and joking.

I'd say that staff (and there's no doubt it is staff with their ID tags and logoed jackets) are doing significant harm to their employer's reputation.

If passengers all wore their employer's uniforms...

Customers compare the huge ££££ cost of their 1st class tickets and are well annoyed by staff larking about and being a nuisance. I hate to say it, but this is the sort of behaviour we're paying to leave behind in Standard.

This is snobbish and arrogant, you are no better than anyone else. Get over yourself, do you get angry when people on Advance tickets sit in 1st - paying £24.50 when you paid £163?

 

[Greenback]

Er, I hasten to add, I merely meant that she was the senior manager in charge of retail!

For the lawyers benefit, I always found Elaine to be most professional, and I deeply regret and apologise for any misunderstanding that may have arisen because of my badly worded earlier post.

Thank you and goodnight for now!

 

[Pumbaa]

If SC is busy, any staff on duty should scuttle off to FC in my opinion, especially on long distance services. Rest of the time, discretion of the person in charge of the train, and as long as they keep themselves decent I don't have an issue.

Apart from when K on Pendolinos is used by customers, and the crew spill out to have a goss about Kerrys new man...

 

[moggie]

Surely it's simply a case of professionalism and perhaps respect for your customer? Any member of staff in company uniform is a visual representative of their employing company - like it or not. No one should be so thick that they can't realise that their behaviour is likely to, or indeed is creating upset to fare paying passengers irrespective of whether you are in first by favour, request or ticket authority - and that should include on or off duty. And equally no member of train crew on duty should be placed in a situation where they have to intervene to quiten things down. If one can't work that out then maybe the inevitable clampdown on these informal (and perhaps formal) gatherings that will result is deserved.

 

[Barn]

1st class doesn't mean you get treated any more "special" than standard class passengers, you may get served some compliemtary goodies or have a bigger seat, but you don't pay 1st class for a "posh atmosphere" as you seem to demand

Sorry, but for many people that is EXACTLY why they pay first. Doing it for 'the seat' is a very enthusiast thing to do. Even comfortably well off people would not pay hugely more for goodies and a bigger seat. It is worth it to them because it is, or should be, quieter and more civilised.

 

[Caped Crusader]

Surely it's simply a case of professionalism and perhaps respect for your customer? Any member of staff in company uniform is a visual representative of their employing company - like it or not. No one should be so thick that they can't realise that their behaviour is likely to, or indeed is creating upset to fare paying passengers irrespective of whether you are in first by favour, request or ticket authority - and that should include on or off duty. And equally no member of train crew on duty should be placed in a situation where they have to intervene to quiten things down. If one can't work that out then maybe the inevitable clampdown on these informal (and perhaps formal) gatherings that will result is deserved.

I have to agree (and I may get caned on this but it's my opinion so...)
Any staff travel not on a working diagram is a privelege not a right and should be treated as such. There is already a big list of services from various TOC's where free/priv card travel is restricted.
However as Flamingo has pointed out it has it's benefits, as I found out when I offered assistance to a guard who was being assualted on a train I was travelling on. So did the other 4 staff, 5 Met Police and 2 BTP.
Even if I am leisure travelling on a paid priv ticket I will always stand if there is a lack of seats.

 

[notadriver]

Here I totally agree with you 1V53!

 

[9K43]

Staff are overpaid and shouldn't have any perks! In fact they should be pulled behind the train in a little box on wheels to segregate them, AND be charged for the privilege! I think it's disgusting that they should enjoy themselves and be happy too. Vermin the lot of them.

First class is for the well heeled in society. Those on say less than £100k shouldn't be able to come within a carriage of it. The problem is these commoners simply have no decorum.

My free Priv Travel Card was earned by me after half of my life in railway service .(I even have a free bus pass now.)
I have gone to work at 0200hrs on a Sunday morning and other times gone to work in smelly tunnels, in pit yards upto the neck in mud and foul water.
Also prepared 36 HAA's that have stood under the pit screens where coal sludge rained down on them all weekend.
Had to put up with drunken passenger on charters, drivers that chain smoked for a 12 hour shift, and EWS managers that would put the curly bit of a shunt pole under thier arms then ask me what it was used for.
I recon that my free passes have been earned the hard way, not by stepping on a passenger train at Kings X and bailing out at Newcastle, thats just playing at railways init?

 

[BigVince76]

I travel in first on XC fairly regularly and often see staff travelling in uniform. In my experience they have always behaved as I would hope anyone would in any public place, i.e not bothering anyone! One of the big selling points of first class is that it provides an environment in which one can work. A bit more room, a table and a bit of piece and quiet is how the TOC's advertise it. I do think it would be wrong for anyone, including off duty staff, to be so loud that they make it hard to work but it is a train, and public place so you are never going to get silence! If you want total control over your environment take your car, but good luck using your laptop on the M6!

 

[wensley]

I don't have a problem with rail staff having first class priv. It's the same as employees in other industries having perks: such as retail staff getting a discount in said store etc. As far as I am aware the privileges aren't granted immediately (for off-duty travel anyway) and the staff must work for a certain period before getting the right to priv travel, the TOCs also have the right to withdraw the travel rights at any time.

I quite agree that if you want silence go to the quiet coach, First Class should be quiet but I have no problem with staff having a bit of a natter!

 

[The Barlow Boy]

I'd rather not travel in First. The people in Std are usually much more down to earth, have much more interesting conversations and are much more friendly.

The overbearing atmosphere of large ego's and haughty snobbish elitism is far too much for me. Leave them to it, they need to feel they are better than everyone else because of their own inadequacies.

As my old Gran used to say, "there's no snob like a working class snob" (Her husband was a Nottinghamshire face working miner).
I believe that chips on the shoulder can be removed by a fairly painless NHS funded procedure nowadays.

 

[wibble]

Bloody well said, First Class. I get the impression that there are some who believe that us rif raf are alright to run the trains, but not travel (especially in first class) on them.


G

I hadn't realised that all rail staff had an automatic right to travel in First Class for free. Must remember that next time...

 

[SqUaShIe P]

I was on a train going home the otherday (after work so i was in uniform) boarded the train, standard class was fairly busy, and there was one passenger and an RPI i knew sitting in the first class section. (it was a 4car 321 DOO) I went and sat in FC and spoke to that RPI. A few mins after departure, the gentleman also sitting in FC jumped up and said it was an 'outrage' that staff were sitting in first class. When I got on the train, i did catch a glimpse of his STANDARD CLASS TICKET. I told the RPI and the gentleman recieved a penalty fare for being in there.
I can kind of understand first class passengers having a problem with staff or police officers being in there, but that cheeky chap didnt even pay for first class. And also, some advance purchase ticket holders will only pay a fraction of what the first open passengers pay. they might aswell be in there for free... should they not be allowed in there too?

 

[222007]

I'll actually add to this that the people i see most often in first on the trains i work are people with network rail passes. Also i never travel in first unless im off duty and travelling at weekends (for which im entitled). I find it very amusing actually that Rail staff and dammed if we do and dammed if we dont ( i'm not just referring to this issue). To open up a can of worms does the general public not think we deserve a little bit of respect as we are getting you to where you want to be the flack we have to deal with is unreal i doubt the people who shout and scream at us would hate the same thing happening to them in there work place.

 

[Flywaver]

If im travelling pass and i know the Guard there normally isnt a problem sitting in First class.
We are told we can use it if we take uniform I.D off and i as a majority keep ourselves to ourselves and have respect for First Class passengers.
Where i draw the line is that i drive the same units. If im not allowed in First Class then if there is a problem with my unit eg The PassCom etc or in the morning i have to prepare the unit then i have to go in First Class!!!
Im not putting up with pompous bollocks that its only to suit them....

 

[1V53]

In most cases it is jealousy. Most enthusiasts would love to work on the trains and get paid a decent wage for doing something they enjoy. I know, I used to have the attitude many on here have towards staff, so I decided "if you can't beat them, join them". I did, and have never looked back

 

[Oliver]

Surely this is all about politeness and good manners. No-one should disturb people around them in public, and an employee should always behave well to customers whether on or off duty. On a train, quiet conversation is acceptable, being rowdy isn't.

 

[1V53]

Surely this is all about politeness and good manners. No-one should disturb people around them in public, and an employee should always behave well to customers whether on or off duty. On a train, quiet conversation is acceptable, being rowdy isn't.

Well said.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The units I work only have a relatively small First Class compartment. I've never been a fan of seeing staff travelling in uniform in First Class. There are a few exceptions, but I generally don't like to do it and don't like seeing others do it. On larger trains with full FC carriages I don't see it as quite such a problem, but I think it should be done discretely when in uniform.

On a slightly different note, when staff are travelling out of uniform, off duty, I will often invite them to sit in First Class should space be available. What really, and I mean REALLY gets on my wick are those that just plonk themselves in FC automatically, without being invited, when they only have STD travel tickets or passes.

 

[transportphoto]

On a slightly different note, when staff are travelling out of uniform, off duty, I will often invite them to sit in First Class should space be available. What really, and I mean REALLY gets on my wick are those that just plonk themselves in FC automatically, without being invited, when they only have STD travel tickets or passes.

Hi - just out of interest what would you do in this case? Full First Anytime without PRIV? As effectively they don't have a valid ticket?

 

[Flamingo]

Hi - just out of interest what would you do in this case? Full First Anytime without PRIV? As effectively they don't have a valid ticket?

Only ever done that once, to a drunk copper who told me and the rest of the carriage "I'll sit wherever the f*** I want". He didn't have a ticket at all, and belonged to a force that does not have travel privileges, but flashed his badge to do a two hour journey (on his way back after the football).

 

[Chew Chew]

If the members of staff were making as much noise as the OP claims then I'm sure a quick "Excuse me, I'm trying to work" or something along those lines would have gotten the staff members to quieten down. It isn't like they were neds who'd have stabbed her/him. Instead of that s/he keeps quiet about it and then complains on an internet forum.

How are the staff to know they were being too raucous if they didn't realise it themselves and nobody bothered to tell them?

 

[Greeny]

I hadn't realised that all rail staff had an automatic right to travel in First Class for free. Must remember that next time...

Read my reply to CS on page 2. Please tell me where I said all rail staff have an automatic right to travel 1st Class for free. No ?. Didn't think so.

G

 

[alloneword100]

Surely this is all about politeness and good manners. No-one should disturb people around them in public, and an employee should always behave well to customers whether on or off duty. On a train, quiet conversation is acceptable, being rowdy isn't.

I agree this is the point. However, the reason I sometimes pay for first, like most who do I suspect, is because you do generally find that it is more relaxing. It's partly about noise, partly about space, and partly about service. I don't have a difficulty about staff being there, but it is equally good manners on their part not to be noisy if the rest of the carriage is quiet. That would be bad manners if they were paying passengers too, but the train company should be concerned when they are staff, in the same way as a restaurant or hotel would be if staff behaved inapprpriately in guest areas.

To complete the point, some of the commuter trains into and out of London tend to be equally quiet at the rush hour as everyone either winds up to or down from work. It would be equally wrong for staff coming of shift to get raucous there too. Different on the 10 pm train home after an evening out.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Personally I never ask to sit in 1st class, if it is offered by the Guard on board I will say yes UNLESS its crowded, its 1 thing having a perk but its another thing if someone is actually paying!

 

[E&W Lucas]

What needs to be understood, is that staff can be, and are, disciplined for abusing travel facilities. That includes inappropriate conduct, whether on or off duty.

Some of us do have 1st Class travel perks, but I am sure have enough sense to behave with respect to those around us when using them. For those that are jealous of the wages/ conditions enjoyed by rail staff, the answer is simple. Get that CV in the post!

 

[cuccir]

Personally I never ask to sit in 1st class, if it is offered by the Guard on board I will say yes UNLESS its crowded, its 1 thing having a perk but its another thing if someone is actually paying!

Surely if standard is crowded then taking yourself out of there benefits everyone!

 

[1V53]

It is an unwritten rule on most companies especially Virgin that if you show your priv before you get on and ask if it is ok to travel, or buy a priv standard ticket, most staff will tip you the wink and tell you to go in first. It does no harm provided you are sensible and conduct yourself in a manner that the snobs won't get upset about.

 

[strange6]

It is an unwritten rule on most companies especially Virgin that if you show your priv before you get on and ask if it is ok to travel, or buy a priv standard ticket, most staff will tip you the wink and tell you to go in first. It does no harm provided you are sensible and conduct yourself in a manner that the snobs won't get upset about.

As a passenger, I certainly wouldn't mind providing the accommodation was there in the first place. I think most railway staff are well mannered and pleasant enough to use their common sense in the first place.