Staff abusing 1st class travel privileges

[amcluesent]

As a paying daily traveller using a variety of XC, EC and FCC services, I'm getting well annoyed with rail staff abusing their privilege to travel 1st class.

Recently I've witnessed -

1) XC bloke sitting in reserved seat and not automatically shifting when the paying customer boarded. Instead, she was told - 'It's OK, I'm getting off at the next stop'.

2) A group of EC staff having a 'works party' at the end of the carriage nearest the buffet. Everyone else in the carriage was fuming.

3) Various XC and FCC coming off shift, forgetting that paying customer were trying to concentrate on their work, laughing and joking.

I'd say that staff (and there's no doubt it is staff with their ID tags and logoed jackets) are doing significant harm to their employer's reputation.

Customers compare the huge ££££ cost of their 1st class tickets and are well annoyed by staff larking about and being a nuisance. I hate to say it, but this is the sort of behaviour we're paying to leave behind in Standard.

 

[j0hn0]

I can empathise, first class should not be available to staff, not to besmirch their name but they arent exactly the type of people you normally see in there.

I found out yesterday though that standard class season tickets can use first class at weekends

 

[TomJ93]

The staff on the Pretendo sit in the buffet and 1st coach having a natter after Coventry!

 

[First class]

Am I the only one here who thinks this poster feels self-important?

Use the quiet coach if you want peace and quiet...

1st class doesn't mean you get treated any more "special" than standard class passengers, you may get served some compliemtary goodies or have a bigger seat, but you don't pay 1st class for a "posh atmosphere" as you seem to demand.


Nothing really stopping staff from talking/joking to each other...

If you really don't like it, why not just pay for a standard class fare in future?

 

[The_Stig]

So it would be okay if the laughing and joking people were paying customers?

I agree that the first class incident is out of order.

 

[First class]

So it would be okay if the laughing and joking people were paying customers?

Of course it would be okay! It is public transport and whether it's friends or family travelling together, you can't expect people to sit in silence! There's always other carriages (even specific Quiet Zones) if you don't like it!

 

[Daimler]

The first example is unacceptable, but all the others given are perfectly normal behaviour for groups of people together, and I've seen plenty of paying customers behaving in first class in exactly this way (and a lot worse too!). I don't think you can reproach rail staff for behaving like everyone else.

If it was a quiet carriage, that would be quite another matter, of course, but as you haven't mentioned that I'm assuming it wasn't.

 

[The_Stig]

So it would be okay if the laughing and joking people were paying customers?

Of course it would be okay! It is public transport and whether it's friends or family travelling together, you can't expect people to sit in silence! There's always other carriages (even specific Quiet Zones) if you don't like it!

I think you misunderstood what I meant. I meant the question to be for the OP, not yourself. I should have quoted it, my bad.

 

[mumrar]

People travelling for free sitting somewhere others have paid hundreds of pounds to do so, in upsetting those that have paid shocker!!

With the exception of not moving from a first class reserved seat, the rest of it is nothing different to what you could encounter happening with fare paying passengers in 1st class. Particularly with advance first and cheap weekend upgrades too.

 

[Greeny]

Am I the only one here who thinks this poster feels self-important?

Use the quiet coach if you want peace and quiet...

1st class doesn't mean you get treated any more "special" than standard class passengers, you may get served some compliemtary goodies or have a bigger seat, but you don't pay 1st class for a "posh atmosphere" as you seem to demand.


Nothing really stopping staff from talking/joking to each other...

If you really don't like it, why not just pay for a standard class fare in future?

Bloody well said, First Class. I get the impression that there are some who believe that us rif raf are alright to run the trains, but not travel (especially in first class) on them.


G

 

[Ferret]

People travelling for free sitting somewhere others have paid hundreds of pounds to do so, in upsetting those that have paid shocker!!

With the exception of not moving from a first class reserved seat, the rest of it is nothing different to what you could encounter happening with fare paying passengers in 1st class. Particularly with advance first and cheap weekend upgrades too.

I agree up to a point, but it's a wee bit bit unprofessional to sit in FC and disturb others. I certainly wouldn't dream of doing that!!!

 

[mumrar]

I agree up to a point, but it's a wee bit bit unprofessional to sit in FC and disturb others. I certainly wouldn't dream of doing that!!!

I agree 100%, but with many complaints of this nature the definition of what disturbance is becomes more and more flimsy as the fare paid goes down. When it's staff travelling for free, the few times I've travelled in 1st class I've found it nigh on impossible to go un-noticed as even if I start a phone conversation all these business types with iPhones/Blackberries start eyeballing me like they weren't just doing the same.

 

[strange6]

I agree 100%, but with many complaints of this nature the definition of what disturbance is becomes more and more flimsy as the fare paid goes down. When it's staff travelling for free, the few times I've travelled in 1st class I've found it nigh on impossible to go un-noticed as even if I start a phone conversation all these business types with iPhones/Blackberries start eyeballing me like they weren't just doing the same.

When Northern staff have been travelling home or somehwere else on the train during peak hours, thay have always stood up so that the travelling public can have seat even though there are seats available. Full credit to them is what I say.

 

[Ferret]

I agree 100%, but with many complaints of this nature the definition of what disturbance is becomes more and more flimsy as the fare paid goes down. When it's staff travelling for free, the few times I've travelled in 1st class I've found it nigh on impossible to go un-noticed as even if I start a phone conversation all these business types with iPhones/Blackberries start eyeballing me like they weren't just doing the same.

That's very true! Mind you, those types frequently like to offer opinions on things that are of no concern to them. I've just been told I needed to go on a customer care course for having the temerity to tell a 'lady' who'd sat herself in First Class (without seeking permission) to move back to standard, pointing out that what she'd technically done was commit an offence when she initially declined to move demanding I find her seats. (Train was busy, but seats were available in STD). Still, I allowed her to remain in FC until I'd found her and her daughter a pair of seats, and yet this FC bloke thinks it's his place to lecture me?! Hmmmmmmmmmm! Picking up on an earlier point, it does seem as though some FC passengers quite often see FC as their little kingdom.....

 

[1V53]

Staff are overpaid and shouldn't have any perks! In fact they should be pulled behind the train in a little box on wheels to segregate them, AND be charged for the privilege! I think it's disgusting that they should enjoy themselves and be happy too. Vermin the lot of them.

First class is for the well heeled in society. Those on say less than £100k shouldn't be able to come within a carriage of it. The problem is these commoners simply have no decorum.

 

[Flamingo]

The first thing that came to mind when I saw this was an old David Langdon cartoon in Punch, showing two business types in a FC carriage, both looking accusingly at a third chap, and one is saying to the other "On "Good Morning" terms until I discovered he was a junior executive at BR with a free rail warrant."

I have to say I ALWAYS tell staff (especially if in uniform, and police I know) to sit in FC (preferably near the bar) when I'm working late trains for a number of reasons:
1. It means I know where they are if anything kicks off
2. If anything kicks off, it's usually around the bar anyway, so I have a ready supply of witnesses, if nothing else.
3. If not at the bar, the other common cause of trouble on late trains is getting FC cleared of STD class ticketholders.
4. The sight of all the uniforms acts as a deterrent.
5. If staff are in uniform split up down the train, they (especially female) are more vulnerable than the average punter if someone wants to make an issue of the fact that I've just kicked them out of First, or made them buy a ticket.
6. At the end of a long days work, I feel that my colleagues deserve a comfortable seat for their journey home. It may be the first time for hours they have sat down, and they deserve to sit in peace.

But, groups of off-duty staff sitting making a nuisance of themselves get on my wick as well.

 

[Ferret]

Flamingo, that's an excellent point - and I'll do exactly the same. Of course, so long as those crews sit peacefully, then I don't have a problem. I did once tell off an EC crew who'd sat in FC and treated it like a mobile party to cool it down a bit though....

 

[CosherB]

I get the impression that there are some who believe that us rif raf are alright to run the trains, but not travel (especially in first class) on them.

They can travel wherever they like as long as they behave appropriately. The sort of noisy disturbance the OP describes is not what one usually experiences in First. As that poster says, one pays First fares to get away from the noisy riff raff in Standard!

 

[222007]

I found out yesterday though that standard class season tickets can use first class at weekends

Who told you this? I'm afraid its 100% not the case on CrossCountry and don't know too many other TOC's that would allow this? If your on my train in first class at the weekend you will be offered the upgrade.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Staff are overpaid and shouldn't have any perks! In fact they should be pulled behind the train in a little box on wheels to segregate them, AND be charged for the privilege! I think it's disgusting that they should enjoy themselves and be happy too. Vermin the lot of them.

First class is for the well heeled in society. Those on say less than £100k shouldn't be able to come within a carriage of it. The problem is these commoners simply have no decorum.

Tongue in cheek i assume?

 

[Greenback]

I have no problem with staff memebrs sitting in First Class, or anywhere else, as long as ther eis room for them and no inconvenience to other passengers.

I have cringed sometimes when groups of uniformed staff have gathered together and engaged in rather loud conversations involving, erm, shall we say workplace type banter. This is not limited to FC and can appear very unprofessional to other travellers!

 

[Greeny]

They can travel wherever they like as long as they behave appropriately. The sort of noisy disturbance the OP describes is not what one usually experiences in First. As that poster says, one pays First fares to get away from the noisy riff raff in Standard!

Sorry CS, they can not travel wherever they like - they can only travel first class if they have apporopriate travel facilities/documentation, last I heard (though I'm happy to be proven to be wrong) there are only a fews exceptions to that. IMHO I cannot see how their behaviour becomes inapropriate until they are in breach of bylaws. Though I have to agree that some of the kind of behaviour described can be a bloody pain and is distracting.

G

 

[ainsworth74]

Who told you this? I'm afraid its 100% not the case on CrossCountry and don't know too many other TOC's that would allow this?

It's a TPE special offer for their season ticket holders see here. But like you I don't know of any other TOC's offering such a deal.

 

[Flamingo]

I have cringed sometimes when groups of uniformed staff have gathered together and engaged in rather loud conversations involving, erm, shall we say workplace type banter. This is not limited to FC and can appear very unprofessional to other travellers!

Me too

 

[amcluesent]

Just to add -

The number of staff travelling in FC seems to be on the rise. Is this 'perk' now more available?

Elaine Holt was in FC a few weeks back, and she wasn't raucous at all, setting a good example

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Just to add -

The number of staff travelling in FC seems to be on the rise. Is this 'perk' now more available?

Elaine Holt was in FC a few weeks back, and she wasn't raucous at all, setting a good example

I think quite a few aren't keen fans of Ms Holt on here, she may be setting good examples for travelling 1st (which I think she is entitled to on any train in great Britain), but she may not be brilliant otherwise.

 

[transportphoto]

I am not going to post this as fact as I am not sure myself

IIRC - The guard is allowed to upgrade anyone using their own discretion, as they are an 'authorized' person to do so (its their train)... so all this stuff that Guards can't/shouldn't upgrade fellow staff without charging is a non-starter?

In reality I guess it is a two way thing - "OK you can sit in 1st but in return if anything should happen you are there to help me"

Am I correct?

I have no experience, these are just going on what I have heard both on this forum and face to face in the past.

 

[Flamingo]

If staff, it's supposed to be authorised/approved by control and telephone them on a case by case basis, with my company anyway.

However, I have run my personal policy past a member of very senior management, and been told "That's fine, very sensible". I'm just hoping they remember the conversation when a certain Guards manager tries to make an issue of it with me sometime!

 

[1V53]

I'd rather not travel in First. The people in Std are usually much more down to earth, have much more interesting conversations and are much more friendly.

The overbearing atmosphere of large ego's and haughty snobbish elitism is far too much for me. Leave them to it, they need to feel they are better than everyone else because of their own inadequacies.

 

[Greenback]

Just to add -

The number of staff travelling in FC seems to be on the rise. Is this 'perk' now more available?

Elaine Holt was in FC a few weeks back, and she wasn't raucous at all, setting a good example

I was once, ahem, under Elaine Holt, and I can't imagine her ever being raucous!

 

[1V53]

I was once, ahem, under Elaine Holt, and I can't imagine her ever being raucous!

So we can add 'boring in bed' to the list of complaints then can we?