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Incident on 20:27 Lumo train 28th December

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357

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"The train came to a stop at Grantham although the doors remained closed. The “Customer Driver” made a blunt but yet descriptive announcement over the tannoy" suggests otherwise, as does the reference to waiting for police due to unwillingness to leave the passenger with platform staff
Standard procedure in this situation is to use local door only if possible, and I believe on the Lumo units it is possible.

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Out of interest, is there much call for a service arriving in Edinburgh at 2am on a Thursday morning ? (Genuine question, I don’t know).
It also relates to demand for the southbound path that then forms this northbound working, and that this unit forms the 09:26 to London tomorrow morning from Edinburgh after visiting the depot tonight.
 
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brad465

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A link to the RTT page for the service is attached for reference, showing the delay described by the original poster.
What caught my eye there is the amount of timing allowances that service has, to the point that if it makes up lost time Edinburgh passengers can't claim Delay Repay; it's already made up 18 minutes from the peak delay at time of posting.
 

Joe Paxton

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[...]
Out of interest, is there much call for a service arriving in Edinburgh at 2am on a Thursday morning ? (Genuine question, I don’t know).

If there are cheaper tickets available, yes!

Plus some people appreciate a later departure, enabling them to do more during the day (albeit with the possible trade-off of a later start to the following day).
 

Starmill

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The train has more than 18 minutes of allowances in the Durham area and 4 minutes at Newcastle. This may not all be needed so the train could leave Newcastle almost on time.
 

william.martin

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If there are cheaper tickets available, yes!

Plus some people appreciate a later departure, enabling them to do more during the day (albeit with the possible trade-off of a later start to the following day).
Personally I would nap on the train so I could wake up to a day of sightseeing in Edinburgh

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The train has more than 18 minutes of allowances in the Durham area and 4 minutes at Newcastle. This may not all be needed so the train could leave Newcastle almost on time.
I don't get why it needs so much allowances around Durham.
 

hexagon789

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What caught my eye there is the amount of timing allowances that service has, to the point that if it makes up lost time Edinburgh passengers can't claim Delay Repay; it's already made up 18 minutes from the peak delay at time of posting.
Because of the engineering work. It's normally scheduled into Edinburgh at 0047.
 

Trainfan344

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It might just be me but I'd rather get to my destination on time than get delay repay
 

Segedunum

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The allowances around Durham are standard for trains after a certain time of night to allow for bi-directional working during engineering works.

In practice they're rarely used. I also see that there's a booked dwell at Berwick along with various other allowances so it's quite likely the time will be made up.
 

AlterEgo

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Good call by the staff not to let this idiot be in the custody of two women.
 

Jonny

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What caught my eye there is the amount of timing allowances that service has, to the point that if it makes up lost time Edinburgh passengers can't claim Delay Repay; it's already made up 18 minutes from the peak delay at time of posting.

It is already back to +26, (as of 23:57 hours) so will there be any delay repay at all?
 

BluePenguin

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Are you on this service?
Yes, indeed I was - making my bi monthly trip up to Newcastle. Were you on the train too? Had I not been snoozing and seen this earlier would have popped down to say hello
If so, BluePenguin has a late night ahead..
Fortunately now off the train and in a taxi, should be asleep in 30 minutes. It has been a long day lol
 

johntea

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Sometimes the element of ‘surprise’ can work wonders for these idiots

Once had a few rowdy passengers on a Manchester Victoria - Leeds via Bradford service, they suddenly weren’t so confident when met by the BTP at Halifax!

Also had an incident on an Arriva bus the other week where 6 of the finest local young ‘talent’ made a nuisance on the upper deck (for example releasing around 100 sweets on the floor!), the driver waited for a stop out in the sticks and then booted them off…”Where are we?!”…his response was “Here” :D
 

DanNCL

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Some of the stuff in this thread is just silly. Most people don’t give two hoots what job title the person driving the train has as long as they’re suitably qualified to do the job which they are. If Lumo want to refer to them as ‘Customer Drivers’ that’s up to them and it really shouldn’t be an issue.

Isn’t this literally the purpose of the railway :D
Apparently not if you ask the DFT :lol:

The train has more than 18 minutes of allowances in the Durham area and 4 minutes at Newcastle. This may not all be needed so the train could leave Newcastle almost on time.
I don't get why it needs so much allowances around Durham.
The allowances around Durham are standard for trains after a certain time of night to allow for bi-directional working during engineering works.

In practice they're rarely used. I also see that there's a booked dwell at Berwick along with various other allowances so it's quite likely the time will be made up.
Allows ‘wrong line’ running at 50mph without causing delay. Has never been used frequently, but is seeing a bit more use lately, at guess the works to divert the A1 on to a new bridge over the ECML near Tyne Yard may be part of the reason behind this.

When wrong line running is used, sometimes it’ll be used the whole way between Darlington and Newcastle, others for only short sections. If no wrong line running is used generally none of the engineering allowance is required.

I think it's in keeping with the budget airline/Megabus style service - such companies tend to be more "straight talking" than you might expect from LNER.
I don’t see how that makes a difference. LNER too have a minority of staff who have a more ‘straight talking’ approach than is perhaps desired for a public facing role. Apart from maybe the tiniest of small businesses you’re always going to have some people in a public facing role who are more ‘straight talking’ than what would be considered professional. That said in this case I don’t see anything wrong with what Lumo’s driver said given the circumstances.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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The “Customer Driver” made a blunt but yet descriptive announcement over the tannoy:

“Unfortunately due to one of our passengers not knowing how to behave in public we have had to stop here to have them removed. We do not feel comfortable leaving them in the hands of 2 female platform staff so currently waiting for police to arrive. I would like to say sorry for the delay and inconvenience caused, especially to those in the back carriage for putting up with that rubbish”
That’s not the first time LUMO staff have made highly unprofessional announcements. New job gone to the head perhaps. Totally correct what he’s saying, but also totally i appropriate.

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How does a disruptive passenger amount to that label?

Besides, lower fares and choice are good things aren't they?
The unprofessional attitude of their staff has been noted more than once.
 

LowLevel

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That’s not the first time LUMO staff have made highly unprofessional announcements. New job gone to the head perhaps. Totally correct what he’s saying, but also totally i appropriate.

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The unprofessional attitude of their staff has been noted more than once.
*shrug* not saying it was necessarily the best thing to do, but not being there I'm not going to judge. Certainly I've used announcements as a weapon against anti social behaviour (smokers, drunks etc) in the past. A bit of shaming from a disembodied "Voice from the Gods" can work wonders.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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*shrug* not saying it was necessarily the best thing to do, but not being there I'm not going to judge. Certainly I've used announcements as a weapon against anti social behaviour (smokers, drunks etc) in the past. A bit of shaming from a disembodied "Voice from the Gods" can work wonders.
Dialect such as “doesn’t know how to behave in public” completely reflects the self-righteous, teacher dealing with naughty schoolchild way of talking I’ve noticed many times before on LNER (“no you can’t have another bacon roll, don’t be greedy now please”) and Lumo before. It’s out of order elsewhere from the railway and should be considered it there too.
 

43066

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Certainly if I spoke to someone in my role the way in which the “customer driver” chose to in this instance, there would (rightly) be serious repercussions.

What’s wrong with it?! Would you rather he had lied, or not said anything? Most people tend to prefer honesty rather than “passenger incident” type corporate BS. I think this treads the right side of the line by being honest, yet remaining (reasonably) professional.

It’s surprising the driver made the announcement, rather than the “customer guard”, or whatever they’re called, who would presumably have been in a better position to know what was happening. I wonder if it was they who, in fact, made the announcement.

Customer driver :o

I can’t take anything else in this thread in apart from that. It’s such a cringing title.

It is, and it’s not as if it makes anyones’ experience different, in practice. A little like calling passengers “customers” which has been going on since the days of BR, and is beloved of “I pay your wages” types :D.
 
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357

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Arrived in Edinburgh 8 minutes early!
 

LowLevel

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Dialect such as “doesn’t know how to behave in public” completely reflects the self-righteous, teacher dealing with naughty schoolchild way of talking I’ve noticed many times before on LNER (“no you can’t have another bacon roll, don’t be greedy now please”) and Lumo before. It’s out of order elsewhere from the railway and should be considered it there too.
If you're attempting to distract a fighty idiot in a metal tube anything apart from swearing over the PA goes if you ask me. I've got enough experience to be an authority on the matter. Presumably avenues such as talking them down had already been unsuccessful. Taking the attitude that they require to be dealt with respectfully when the real answer is that they need flattening and dragging out of the door with extreme prejudice as quickly as possible empowers them.

Take all other approaches first by all means but if they don't work making a polite announcement whilst they wreck the place and scare people doesn't help. Demonstrating a measured amount of frustration develops empathy.
 

357

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If you're attempting to distract a fighty idiot in a metal tube anything apart from swearing over the PA goes if you ask me. I've got enough experience to be an authority on the matter. Presumably avenues such as talking them down had already been unsuccessful. Taking the attitude that they require to be dealt with respectfully when the real answer is that they need flattening and dragging out of the door with extreme prejudice as quickly as possible empowers them.

Take all other approaches first by all means but if they don't work making a polite announcement whilst they wreck the place and scare people doesn't help. Demonstrating a measured amount of frustration develops empathy.
Absolutely.

Too many people here are commenting on the driver/guard* and their announcements, without ever having been in that situation themselves.

I've often found in my own experience that a loud "apologies everyone but this train is unable to move until this passenger leaves the train" is an excellent way to make the disruptive individual feel embarrassed as they then have everyone looking at them, often making comments, and occasionally an off duty police officer then offers their assistance after ignoring the previous generic request over the PA as at that point it wasn't delaying them ("sorry mate I had my headphones in")

*We don't know for sure who said what, it's not been confirmed if they introduced themselves or if it was just the assumption of the OP that it was the driver
 

william.martin

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Sometimes the element of ‘surprise’ can work wonders for these idiots

Once had a few rowdy passengers on a Manchester Victoria - Leeds via Bradford service, they suddenly weren’t so confident when met by the BTP at Halifax!

Also had an incident on an Arriva bus the other week where 6 of the finest local young ‘talent’ made a nuisance on the upper deck (for example releasing around 100 sweets on the floor!), the driver waited for a stop out in the sticks and then booted them off…”Where are we?!”…his response was “Here” :D
I was on one of my monthly trips to see family in the Midlands and I was on a single deck national express west midlands, and a bunch of kids (whose irresponsible parents were onboard) were throwing sweets trying to see if they could hit the bell for the door and to trigger it though they don't want to leave.
However next one of the sweets hit me in the back of my neck! I walked up to the driver and informed him of what happend and had the kicked of the bus before they had even had a chance to open the second pack of skittles.
 

Flying Snail

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That’s not the first time LUMO staff have made highly unprofessional announcements. New job gone to the head perhaps. Totally correct what he’s saying, but also totally i appropriate.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


The unprofessional attitude of their staff has been noted more than once.
LOL. Still butthurt over Lumo staff giving you short shrift for boarding a set down only train I see.


As usual the criticize rail staff no matter what they do brigade have already jumped on board. Perhaps you all would prefer the lock themselves in the cab, call the police and let the passengers sort themselves out response instead.

I'll bet that all the passengers on board having to put up with this idiot very much appreciated the train staff making it clear they were dealing with the situation and weren't tolerant of that behaviour.
 
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jon0844

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While I think 'customer driver' is a bit of a silly title (even if it is factually correct), I am surprised how many people are getting so upset over it.

As for the Ryanair reference, I think that's fair. It is comparable to Ryanair in many ways, as the extra low pricing has really made long-distance travel affordable for more people - and it seems that it has attracted younger travellers who may otherwise not travel by train at all (preferring to use coaches, or just not travelling at all).

It seems Lumo has been incredibly successful and long may that success continue, silly staff job titles or not.
 

Bantamzen

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How does a disruptive passenger amount to that label?

Besides, lower fares and choice are good things aren't they?
Basically its a form of snobbery. As with Ryanair, some media outlets & their readership seem to believe that cheap services are the exclusive domain of the working class plebs & ruffians. I also gives such snobs an ideal chance to look down their noses at others.

(Please note, this is note aimed at anyone here but the reference to The Times newspaper earlier in the thread!)

What’s wrong with it?! Would you rather he had lied, or not said anything? Most people tend to prefer honesty rather than “passenger incident” type corporate BS. I think this treads the right side of the line by being honest, yet remaining (reasonably) professional.

It’s surprising the driver made the announcement, rather than the “customer guard”, or whatever they’re called, who would presumably have been in a better position to know what was happening. I wonder if it was they who, in fact, made the announcement.



It is, and it’s not as if it makes anyones’ experience different, in practice. A little like calling passengers “customers” which has been going on since the days of BR, and is beloved of “I pay your wages” types :D.
Well technically we do pay your wages. If we all stopped using trains, you'd be out on your ear. <D But I agree what we call the lever pushers doesn't matter.... ;)

If you're attempting to distract a fighty idiot in a metal tube anything apart from swearing over the PA goes if you ask me. I've got enough experience to be an authority on the matter. Presumably avenues such as talking them down had already been unsuccessful. Taking the attitude that they require to be dealt with respectfully when the real answer is that they need flattening and dragging out of the door with extreme prejudice as quickly as possible empowers them.

Take all other approaches first by all means but if they don't work making a polite announcement whilst they wreck the place and scare people doesn't help. Demonstrating a measured amount of frustration develops empathy.
And onto the crux of the matter. Sometimes in a conflict situation like this, its actually not a bad idea to let everyone know exactly what is happening as the customer driver gains a lot more eyes and ears on the train, and hopefully enough people willing to help protect others if this idiot kicks off again. This in itself could in turn dissuade him from trying anything further, most drunk (assuming he was) idiots only need a few lads to stand up to them to have them retreat back into their shells.
 
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