In-between strike days and intermediate days - why no service?

[TT-ONR-NRN]

By all means keep digging yourself into a hole, but 'I don't wish to be told that I'm wrong' is arrogant to the point of absurdity.

Chiltern's planning team are extremely good, and work exceptionally hard, every time that I worked with them (between 5 and 3 years ago now).

I have stated no facts other than opinion, and my opinion is not something that can just be condemned as right and wrong, though I acknowledge and respect your wish to defend the decisions of your colleagues...

I'm sure the planning team work exceptionally hard, and I wasn't necessarily criticising them in particular as much as the hierarchy of the TOC or whoever has told them not to bother planning anything for the in-between days, in a way other TOCs have not done.

Something that makes me increasingly annoyed, is attempts of more militant rail staff on here to trivialise points of view they don't agree with by branding them "attempts to be controversial/wind people up" or "digging a hole," which is a rather sly attempt to make others dismiss said opposing points of view as spam or troublemaking.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Chiltern's planning team are extremely good, and work exceptionally hard, every time that I worked with them (between 5 and 3 years ago now).

Indeed, and planning teams are finding they are having to make compromises now so that in the engineering work heavy months of January and February we don’t get to weekends where they’ve run out of time to even do a timetable. It happened on year on SSWT at Easter and wasn’t a good outcome.

The planning teams also have all the DfT let cost cuttings to replan in January and simply aren’t resourced up to deal with this.

The planning teams are far from being ‘lazy’ in not planning a bespoke service on the 18th but instead are having to prioritise what gets done and what doesn’t as it simply can’t all be delivered.

Many businesses have to make choices like that and it’s very bizarre to call them lazy.

 

[Ex-controller]

I think the bigger issue here is that there seems to be no route out of these strikes for the foreseeable. It seems every attempt to reach an agreement is undermined by government. I’d be more concerned by that than the difficulty in establishing a service on non strike days.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I'm sure the planning team work exceptionally hard, and I wasn't necessarily criticising them in particular as much as the hierarchy of the TOC or whoever has told them not to bother planning anything for the in-between days, in a way other TOCs have not done.

As someone involved nationally in Planning nobody has been told not to bother to do something on the in between days, what has actually been done is looked at the whole period between now and the second week in January and work out what is actually deliverable. And prioritising planning workforce accordingly.

On some TOCs/NR Routes that is a service for the 18th on other areas is more focus on New Year or the first week of January.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I still think the time of year is what makes the situation seem ten times worse from a public perspective, as it looks like a deliberate attempt to stop Christmas travel if trains aren't even running in between strike days. I think public outrage would be much less if we were currently in April or October.

 

[Starmill]

By all means keep digging yourself into a hole, but 'I don't wish to be told that I'm wrong' is arrogant to the point of absurdity.

Chiltern's planning team are extremely good, and work exceptionally hard, every time that I worked with them (between 5 and 3 years ago now).

I don't think there's necccesarily any contradiction between commending the professional achievements of individuals, and criticising the institutional competence of the organisation they work for. I can think of several examples where I would say that about people I know personally, and they would agree.

It seems sensible to me that people are able to point out that Chiltern are badly underperfoming for their customers, and that they're delivering notably worse results than their peers. It's also accurate to suggest that they've not really been honest about that, or why it is.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I don't think there's necccesarily any contradiction between commending the professional achievements of individuals, and criticising the institutional competence of the organisation they work for. I can think of several examples where I would say that about people I know personally, and they would agree.

Yes, I wouldn’t dream of criticising individuals, but as you’ve very nicely worded “the institutional competence” of Chiltern Railways as a company in general appears very poor and half-hearted compared to all other TOCs. I’ll leave that particular branch of the discussion at that.

 

[Adam Williams]

Putting aside the issue of whether Chiltern do run services on the 18th or not (and indeed, whether they run north of Banbury on other days), it would appear that very little has been done to date for customers stuck trying to now travel. When I enquired, I was told that no ticket acceptance arrangements had been put in place with GWR/Avanti for the 18th and that a change of route excess would be required.

Some customers hold tickets towards London routed "Via High Wycombe". What services are their tickets valid on, on the 18th?

 

[12LDA28C]

I don't think there's necccesarily any contradiction between commending the professional achievements of individuals, and criticising the institutional competence of the organisation they work for. I can think of several examples where I would say that about people I know personally, and they would agree.

It seems sensible to me that people are able to point out that Chiltern are badly underperfoming for their customers, and that they're delivering notably worse results than their peers. It's also accurate to suggest that they've not really been honest about that, or why it is.

I commented earlier that the current strike and overtime / RDW ban affects different TOCs and routes in different ways. The overtime ban has certainly achieved what it set out to do, ie expose deficiencies at various TOC's or Signalling Centres' staffing levels and reliance on people working RDs and overtime in order to resource even basic coverage on certain days, particularly if compounded by higher than normal levels of staff sickness due to the time of year.

However, why should an affected TOC have to go into intricate detail about exactly why they are unable to run specific level of service when 'Industrial action by the RMT' (or whichever union) is indeed the basic reason for it?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

However, why should an affected TOC have to go into intricate detail about exactly why they are unable to run specific level of service when 'Industrial action by the RMT' (or whichever union) is indeed the basic reason for it?

I think the point is that "Industrial Action by the RMT" is down for 13, 14, 16 and 17 December and January 3,4, 6 and 7, with additional action affecting the railway on Christmas when it would be closed anyway, not the entirety of December 13 to January 8. I'm actually surprised pro-union members haven't taken issue with that reasoning as it makes it look like they're striking more than they are!

 

[Bletchleyite]

According to TfL, only 39% of households in inner London have access to a car, and 64% in outer London does so. Therefore I won't use the word "most" to describe the proportion of rail users owning a car. Even for the rich earning £75k+ per annum household income pre-tax, the level of car ownership is just about half.

As people try to tell you lots, London isn't anything like the rest of the UK. They're almost different countries.

Walk (or drive) down my average street and there won't be a single drive without a car on it.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Putting aside the issue of whether Chiltern do run services on the 18th or not (and indeed, whether they run north of Banbury on other days), it would appear that very little has been done to date for customers stuck trying to now travel. When I enquired, I was told that no ticket acceptance arrangements had been put in place with GWR/Avanti for the 18th and that a change of route excess would be required.

Some customers hold tickets towards London routed "Via High Wycombe". What services are their tickets valid on, on the 18th?

According to the website:

Chiltern Railways High Wycombe-line tickets will be accepted for travel on the following London Underground services:

• Metropolitan Line: Baker Street - stations to Hillingdon and Amersham.
• Central Line: Oxford Circus - Northolt - South Ruislip - West Ruislip.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Dec 2022 ==

You really, really, really should purchase a car. It will make your life much easier and less stressful, even if you don't (as I don't) use it for every journey. A small petrol runaround is very cheap, and while insurance will be expensive to begin with the cost comes down very quickly.

One can purchase a car with ease, but driving it if they have sight, hearing or other medical reasons such as epilepsy or severe neurological disorders is another matter. That aside, people really shouldn't have to buy a car purely due to the public transport system collapsing.

 

[Adam Williams]

According to the website:

Sorry, how does that help me get from Coventry to a London Terminal?

 

[zwk500]

I have stated no facts other than opinion, and my opinion is not something that can just be condemned as right and wrong, though I acknowledge and respect your wish to defend the decisions of your colleagues...

An opinion CAN be based on incorrect facts, something that is often forgotten in these times of 'free speech'.

I'm sure the planning team work exceptionally hard, and I wasn't necessarily criticising them in particular as much as the hierarchy of the TOC or whoever has told them not to bother planning anything for the in-between days, in a way other TOCs have not done.

The person who will have given any such instruction is their train planning manager, who is included in their train planning team and is equally as good as the rest of them. There remains the possibility that the individual I worked with is no longer in that position and therefore a different Train Planning manager is in place, and I cannot say for sure what instructions were given. If the same people are still there, the decision won't have been out of motivation or laziness.

Something that makes me increasingly annoyed, is attempts of more militant rail staff on here to trivialise points of view they don't agree with by branding them "attempts to be controversial/wind people up" or "digging a hole," which is a rather sly attempt to make others dismiss said opposing points of view as spam or troublemaking.

FWIW I'm no longer rail staff and certainly not among the 'more militant' section - I would have voted against the Strikes (I was part of the TSSA) had I not left the industry.

I don't think there's necccesarily any contradiction between commending the professional achievements of individuals, and criticising the institutional competence of the organisation they work for. I can think of several examples where I would say that about people I know personally, and they would agree.

I totally agree this is possible. I just would contend that Chiltern are one of the best-run outfits in the country at all levels and even 'institutional' laziness was not something I came across in my dealings with them. They always were responsive and engaging in any discussions about changes to their train service to benefit other groups and when they refused to do so it was for very well-justified reasons.
I certainly saw institutional laziness across large parts of the rail industry, so I am only commenting specifically on Chiltern here.

 

[miklcct]

That aside, people really shouldn't have to buy a car purely due to the public transport system collapsing.

With rent and utilities increasing I'm pressured to cut spending elsewhere to keep my budget but the recent rail strikes are already hurting me. For example, the cost of my trip to Brighton on the coming Saturday has tripled as a result.

Buying a car will be the last thing I want to do under this crisis.

 

[birchesgreen]

Sorry, how does that help me get from Coventry to a London Terminal?

XC to Banbury, Chiltern to MYB?

 

[Adam Williams]

Chiltern to MYB?

On the 18th. When no Chiltern services are running.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Some customers hold tickets towards London routed "Via High Wycombe". What services are their tickets valid on, on the 18th?

According to the website:

Sorry, how does that help me get from Coventry to a London Terminal?

I assume your implied irritation is directed at Chiltern Railways, not me, I'm just quoting what it says on their website about tickets routed "via High Wycombe!"

You can take CrossCountry to Banbury for an hourly Chiltern Railways service leaving at **08, last being 1608. It is a slower journey of 92 minutes to Marylebone.

 

[Adam Williams]

You can take CrossCountry to Banbury for an hourly Chiltern Railways service leaving at **08, last being 1608. It is a slower journey of 92 minutes to Marylebone.

How do I do that on the 18th of December?

 

[birchesgreen]

On the 18th. When no Chiltern services are running.

Long walk then.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

On the 18th. When no Chiltern services are running.

Chiltern Railways services are running from Banbury and south of there, albeit limited: https://timetables.chilternrailways.co.uk/#/timetables/1582/W20 ThO ST Combined

The link to the amended timetable is above.
Don't refer to RealTime Trains as it's showing no Chiltern services for that date yet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Dec 2022 ==

How do I do that on the 18th of December?

By turning up at the station and getting on the train, brother.
S-T

 

[Adam Williams]

Chiltern Railways services are running from Banbury and south of there, albeit limited: https://timetables.chilternrailways.co.uk/#/timetables/1582/W20 ThO ST Combined

Really?

Due to planned RMT industrial action on this date, NO CHILTERN RAILWAYS SERVICES WILL OPERATE.

 

[zwk500]

On the 18th. When no Chiltern services are running.

You could also refund your original ticket and rebook your journey.

 

[Adam Williams]

You could also refund your original ticket and rebook your journey.

Right, so the buck is passed to the retailer to deal with the problem.

Perhaps you see the source of my annoyance now

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Linked the wrong page by mistake so deleted

 

[Adam Williams]

Might I politely suggest you actually check the Chiltern website? If you do, you'll find there's nowhere near a full network suspension south of Banbury:

Might I politely suggest re-familiarising yourself with a calendar and the differences between August and December? :P

 

[12LDA28C]

How do I do that on the 18th of December?

CrossCountry to Oxford or Reading then GWR to Paddington.

 

[Adam Williams]

CrossCountry to Oxford or Reading then GWR to Paddington.

Please confirm at what point the trains pass through High Wycombe along the journey to satisfy the route restriction on my ticket

 

[12LDA28C]

Might I politely suggest you actually check the Chiltern website? If you do, you'll find there's nowhere near a full network suspension south of Banbury:


As I've said, your journey is do-able.

Not on Sunday the 18th. As stated, no Chiltern services are running.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Might I politely suggest re-familiarising yourself with a calendar and the differences between August and December? :P

Hahaha! Enormous egg on my face there I have indeed linked the wrong industrial action date by mistake, I apologise!

https://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/18th-december-2022 is the right one, and as such no service at all on the entire network does appear to be the case as you said. Disgraceful.

Unfortunately, the London Underground advice I quoted earlier does seem to be the only "help" advertised, but I'm almost certain if you tweet LNR/Avanti/Great Western Railway and ask they will allow you to use it via Rugby/Reading. If they don't, they're out of order, frankly.