In-between strike days and intermediate days - why no service?

[brick60000]

because it's easier not to run anything

This is simply not the case. Planning teams do not have the resource to write a bespoke (full) plan for every possible combination of strikes.

It’s not because it’s ‘easier’.

Net result the same for the passenger, though - and I’m also sure those same planning teams are putting in all the hours they physically can to provide the best possible service. No planner takes pleasure in cutting off part of the network.

 

[birchesgreen]

My question was name another. Not keep naming Chiltern. In addition other than Warwick and Warwick Parkway most stations will have services.

Are the Warwick stations served by the infrequent WMR Leamington services? I know Hatton is, not sure about Lapworth.

 

[Watershed]

Are the Warwick stations served by the infrequent WMR Leamington services? I know Hatton is, not sure about Lapworth.

They are, but it's so minimal as to be effectively useless. Just 3 trains a day on Thursday and, on all other non-strike days until 8 January, 7 trains.

Hatton, Lapworth, Claverdon and Bearley are similarly affected, but as these are very small and lightly used stations the effect is much less serious. Warwick is definitely the worst affected place overall.

 

[birchesgreen]

They are, but it's so minimal as to be effectively useless. Just 3 trains a day on Thursday and, on all other non-strike days until 8 January, 7 trains.

Hatton, Lapworth, Claverdon and Bearley are similarly affected, but as these are very small and lightly used stations the effect is much less serious. Warwick is definitely the worst affected place overall.

Yes mind you the service isn't that good in normal times.

 

[142blue]

First three strike days a service was provided on the inbetween days so timetables CAN be rewritten. Follow the comments Northern are getting on Twitter to see how aggrieved people actually feel and the answer of we've put out a do not travel notice

There's no reason why some degree of service can't be provided

 

[Peterthegreat]

First three strike days a service was provided on the inbetween days so timetables CAN be rewritten. Follow the comments Northern are getting on Twitter to see how aggrieved people actually feel and the answer of we've put out a do not travel notice

There's no reason why some degree of service can't be provided

Exactly.

 

[Jimini]

Quite impressed with the XC Manchester > South Coast timetable for Thursday, to be honest. Late start up as to be expected, but pretty much a full service into the evening.

 

[brick60000]

First three strike days a service was provided on the inbetween days so timetables CAN be rewritten.

Yes and now the railway has a different base timetable - so a brand new “between strike” plan has to be drawn up.

Contingencies would have been drawn up before the first strikes as it became obvious they were looming. There were several months to do that between the start of the May 2022 TT & the strikes.

Dec 2022 started on Sunday. Diagrams probably only agreed a few weeks ago. A few weeks to draw up contingency plans, plus plan for Christmas engineering work both with and without strikes (to provide a rollback position).

Something many operators just won’t have the resource to do.

Something has to give, unfortunately. It really isn’t for lack of trying!

 

[Andyh82]

First three strike days a service was provided on the inbetween days so timetables CAN be rewritten. Follow the comments Northern are getting on Twitter to see how aggrieved people actually feel and the answer of we've put out a do not travel notice

There's no reason why some degree of service can't be provided

The standard response Northern are giving is that ‘units will be in the wrong place’

I would have thought units on a Thursday morning would be in exactly the same place as they would be on a Tuesday morning.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Looking at Northern next week and showing only it's strike day services are running on the 15th despite it being an in-between day.

Same with TPE and East Mids running a very scaled down operation

So no services from Manchester to Sheffield with any operator

How is this even allowed

Chiltern are also thinning services back

National Rail Journey Planner now showing a near hourly Liverpool-Norwich service on Thursday 15th December.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The standard response Northern are giving is that ‘units will be in the wrong place’

I would have thought units on a Thursday morning would be in exactly the same place as they would be on a Tuesday morning.

I asked Northern on twitter why they weren't running a service on Thursday and their response was this.

"The strike action on either side of this date will cause too much disruption for us to be able to run our regular timetables. "

 

[SuspectUsual]

I asked Northern on twitter why they weren't running a service on Thursday and their response was this.

"The strike action on either side of this date will cause too much disruption for us to be able to run our regular timetables. "

I got “our trains and people will be in the wrong place”, which is palpable nonsense

 

[Watershed]

It's amazing how they tie themselves up in knots trying to avoid telling the truth - namely "we don't have the planning capacity to produce a new 'shoulder day' plan".

 

[43066]

It's amazing how they tie themselves up in knots trying to avoid telling the truth - namely "we don't have the planning capacity to produce a new 'shoulder day' plan".

Well most (all?) TOCs don’t have the train crew capacity to run their services on normal days, and routinely obfuscate this, so why should that come as a surprise?!

 

[miklcct]

I am really offended by Chiltern refusing to run any services on 18 December and only a limited service with late start and early finish at least until the end of the year, despite none of the days apart from 24-27 Dec are strike days! What's wrong with that train company?! 18 December isn't even a strike day and the other train companies have no problem running their normal service with a late start!

I have booked for an event in High Wycombe on that day, planning to take trains from Wembley Stadium to get there but the trains are gone! The alternative transport available (i.e. a bus from Amersham) adds half an hour into my journey, which my delay getting home the preceding evening due to the train strike (the usual journey from Brighton back home by train is about 1h50 and the alternative I can find takes me double the time and triple the fare) doesn't help at all!

I hope that this rubbish company will have the franchise terminated early.

 

[infobleep]

Trouble is people don’t accept this. They will still travel despite the warnings and will then look to blame someone else when it all goes wrong.

They can blame SouthEastern then.

 

[142blue]

National Rail Journey Planner now showing a near hourly Liverpool-Norwich service on Thursday 15th December.

Thats good, I know when I asked on Monday they told me its the same as a strike day. Great news

Less so for the 24th

 

[infobleep]

Unsure of the exact shift patterns, but throughout the strikes, operators have been told to bid a timetable that treats the network as opening at 7am. In some cases boxes/SCs will be open earlier than this, but all should be open by 7am on a 'shoulder' day.

There are some operators who have legitimate reasons for not running a normal timetable after a late start-up. But for most it's simply a question of them not having the planning resource to plan a late-starting normal timetable - so they just default to a heavily reduced timetable. In some cases a strike timetable (e.g. Northern).

SWR must have a well staffed planning department then. Lucky them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Dec 2022 ==

They are, but it's so minimal as to be effectively useless. Just 3 trains a day on Thursday and, on all other non-strike days until 8 January, 7 trains.

Hatton, Lapworth, Claverdon and Bearley are similarly affected, but as these are very small and lightly used stations the effect is much less serious. Warwick is definitely the worst affected place overall.

My season ticket is between Lapworth and Hatton but I've not yet been to visit them.

Yes and now the railway has a different base timetable - so a brand new “between strike” plan has to be drawn up.

Contingencies would have been drawn up before the first strikes as it became obvious they were looming. There were several months to do that between the start of the May 2022 TT & the strikes.

Dec 2022 started on Sunday. Diagrams probably only agreed a few weeks ago. A few weeks to draw up contingency plans, plus plan for Christmas engineering work both with and without strikes (to provide a rollback position).

Something many operators just won’t have the resource to do.

Something has to give, unfortunately. It really isn’t for lack of trying!

I read interesting stuff like this on here and wish TOCs would post stuff like this.

 

[142blue]

Have we all seen Northerns plans for the 18th

Can't make it up

 

[Bayum]

Have we all seen Northerns plans for the 18th

Can't make it up

No service whatsoever?

 

[TUC]

Have we all seen Northerns plans for the 18th

Can't make it up

The question for Northern and every other TOC not running as maximum a service as possible on non-strike days is why you assume us passengers will want to use you in the new year when we've got in the habit of using alternatives and see a company that doesn't try very hard and isn't interested in merting its passengers' needs?

 

[142blue]

No service whatsoever?

SUNDAY 18
There is a very limited timetable in place for Sunday 18 December, these services can be found below. All other routes do not have service or replacement buses on this day. We advice you check before you travel on Sunday 18 December.

Middlesbrough - Hartlepool - Newcastle
Darlington - Saltburn
Liverpool - Manchester Airport
Manchester Oxford Road/Piccadilly - Manchester Airport
Blackpool - Manchester
Leeds - Harrogate
Sheffield - Lincoln
Sheffield - Nottingham
Leeds - Selby and York
Leeds - Ilkley
Leeds - Skipton
Leeds - Doncaster and Sheffield
Sheffield - Huddersfield
Leeds - Bradford Forster Square


Journey planners will be updated soon with details of the very limited services that are running on days of industrial action.

 

[Bayum]

SUNDAY 18
There is a very limited timetable in place for Sunday 18 December, these services can be found below. All other routes do not have service or replacement buses on this day. We advice you check before you travel on Sunday 18 December.

Middlesbrough - Hartlepool - Newcastle
Darlington - Saltburn
Liverpool - Manchester Airport
Manchester Oxford Road/Piccadilly - Manchester Airport
Blackpool - Manchester
Leeds - Harrogate
Sheffield - Lincoln
Sheffield - Nottingham
Leeds - Selby and York
Leeds - Ilkley
Leeds - Skipton
Leeds - Doncaster and Sheffield
Sheffield - Huddersfield
Leeds - Bradford Forster Square


Journey planners will be updated soon with details of the very limited services that are running on days of industrial action.

At least an hourly service on each I’ve checked so far!

 

[43066]

The question for Northern and every other TOC not running as maximum a service as possible on non-strike days is why you assume us passengers will want to use you in the new year when we've got in the habit of using alternatives and see a company that doesn't try very hard and isn't interested in merting its passengers' needs?

Probably because passengers have come back after every other strike in history?! Why should this one be different (it won’t be).

Anyway, yesterday you said:

If anything, for most of the country the rail strikes, as well as the postal strike and others, are a complete irrelevance. Life is going on as normal.

If it’s irrelevant, why do you care so much?!

 

[dk1]

Well most (all?) TOCs don’t have the train crew capacity to run their services on normal days, and routinely obfuscate this, so why should that come as a surprise?!

To be fair, here in Greater Anglia land cancellations due to lack of traincrew any day of the week are extremely rare. That may change from Sunday for a couple of weeks when the guards work to rule however.

 

[Peterthegreat]

At least an hourly service on each I’ve checked so far!

But only between 08.00/09.00 and 17.00/18.00.

 

[brick60000]

Have we all seen Northerns plans for the 18th

Can't make it up

Are their Sundays overtime for guards?

I read interesting stuff like this on here and wish TOCs would post stuff like this.

It’s a difficult one - there’s a fine line between something being too simplistic and too complicated, and of course a high chance that any explanation along the lines of ‘lack of planning resource’ would either not be understood (E.g. “how can it possibly take pushing a week to plan one day of timetable”) or be met with as much a cold reaction as any other explanation.

But yes, I agree - transparency isn’t always a bad thing.

 

[Taunton]

This is simply not the case. Planning teams do not have the resource to write a bespoke (full) plan for every possible combination of strikes.

It’s not because it’s ‘easier’.

Net result the same for the passenger, though - and I’m also sure those same planning teams are putting in all the hours they physically can to provide the best possible service. No planner takes pleasure in cutting off part of the network.

It's one of those seeming inconsistencies in the situation. The planning team is described as both unable to devise a plan, so there's no service, but also putting in 'all the hours they can'. Not quite apparent how both can apply.

Likewise we have late starts to the day after the event, because those doing overnight maintenance clock on before midnight, and that's what determines whether one is on strike. But then on the evening before the strike they would likewise clock on before midnight, so can do a full shift of maintenance and have trains all ready to go before they leave work, they just sit there for 24/48 hours, fully prepared. Yet apparently that doesn't happen either.

 

[142blue]

At least an hourly service on each I’ve checked so far!

Oh well that's ok if you are at Knutsford, Buxton, Barrow, Hebden Bridge or Burnley

I'm sure those folks will be made up with the token offering

 

[SuspectUsual]

Absolutely baffling how they can’t run any trains at all through the Calder valley