In-between strike days and intermediate days - why no service?

[43066]

I have asked my manager if I can WFH on Wednesday but he's said no. I could catch the bus but the limited rail service is a better prospect due to journey time.

That’s clearly a perfectly sensible reason to travel. I shall be doing the same as I also can’t work from home!

 

[350401]

I understand that. However I do think the “stay at home” messages used by some of the TOCs are overly strong. It brings back nasty memories from COVID. For strike days, I think a “find alternative ways to travel” message is more appropriate. For non strike days, I don’t think the avoid travel messages are appropriate (eg SWR) Instead, they should warn about a later start and to check before you travel.

Yes we all know that. The point is to deter as many as possible. It really shouldn’t be difficult to understand why that’s a sensible approach when there’s a much reduced service running.

 

[43066]

I understand that. However I do think the “stay at home” messages used by some of the TOCs are overly strong. It brings back nasty memories from COVID. For strike days, I think a “find alternative ways to travel” message is more appropriate. For non strike days, I don’t think the avoid travel messages are appropriate (eg SWR) Instead, they should warn about a later start and to check before you travel.

I agree the southeastern messaging is better in this situation. They’ve had a pretty good service on previous strike days, albeit on a limited number of routes. I suppose it’s possible the TOCs with stronger messaging are expecting worse disruption.

 

[Watershed]

Is anyone able to inform of the shift patterns at the West of Scotland signalling Centre? I'm trying to work out why a day between strikes is any different to (a) a day after a strike and (b) a day before a strike.

Fortunately I use a line that gets a service in strike days, albeit at reduced headway, but I'm still confused by it all. And I'd like to think I know more about the railways* than an average commuter.

*I've heard of and use RTT and Traksy.

Unsure of the exact shift patterns, but throughout the strikes, operators have been told to bid a timetable that treats the network as opening at 7am. In some cases boxes/SCs will be open earlier than this, but all should be open by 7am on a 'shoulder' day.

There are some operators who have legitimate reasons for not running a normal timetable after a late start-up. But for most it's simply a question of them not having the planning resource to plan a late-starting normal timetable - so they just default to a heavily reduced timetable. In some cases a strike timetable (e.g. Northern).

Are Network Rail anticipating having problems in staffing Fenny Compton signalbox during that period? If that were the case, Cross-Country services would also be affected.

Fenny Compton was closed quite a few years ago! It's all controlled by ROCs (or ROC-lites) now - West Midlands Signalling Centre to the north and Thames Valley Signalling Centre to the south. There isn't any issue with the line being open, it's down to a problem that Chiltern face.

 

[Jimini]

Fenny Compton was closed quite a few years ago! It's all controlled by ROCs (or ROC-lites) now - West Midlands Signalling Centre to the north and Thames Valley Signalling Centre to the south. There isn't any issue with the line being open, it's down to a problem that Chiltern face.

2004 I think?!

 

[brick60000]

I agree. I've taken to lambasting East Midlands Railway, on twitter, for their laziness on such days.

I’m pretty sure many contributors on this forum that work in planning will take exception to this.

It is not the Planners’ dispute (in the case of the RMT). Yet their workload is at its worst in years, and stress levels are through the roof.

To be told that they are lazy is nothing short of an insult.

Must add though - that this isn’t necessarily known to the public. But in 100% of cases operators’ & NR’s planning teams really are trying their best.

 

[D6130]

Fenny Compton was closed quite a few years ago! It's all controlled by ROCs (or ROC-lites) now - West Midlands Signalling Centre to the north and Thames Valley Signalling Centre to the south.

Thanks for that. It's been a few years since I was last down that way!

2004 I think?!

....even more years than I had thought!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Unfortunately other operators will have different circumstances - where units are stabled, whether depots are staffed internally or externally, what time signallers book on, etc.

And the capacity within their planning teams to deal with it!

 

[142blue]

The whole thing makes no sense

Other companies can put on a service on the 15th but some choose not to and just say do not travel.

So Man Picc has Avanti, XC, TfW and the token strike day even though it's not a strike day timetable

Manchester to Leeds you can get a train on Thursday and then after that the next service is at best on Sunday

 

[MadCommuter]

Unsure of the exact shift patterns, but throughout the strikes, operators have been told to bid a timetable that treats the network as opening at 7am. In some cases boxes/SCs will be open earlier than this, but all should be open by 7am on a 'shoulder' day.

There are some operators who have legitimate reasons for not running a normal timetable after a late start-up. But for most it's simply a question of them not having the planning resource to plan a late-starting normal timetable - so they just default to a heavily reduced timetable. In some cases a strike timetable (e.g. Northern).


Fenny Compton was closed quite a few years ago! It's all controlled by ROCs (or ROC-lites) now - West Midlands Signalling Centre to the north and Thames Valley Signalling Centre to the south. There isn't any issue with the line beingTh open, it's down to a problem that Chiltern face.

Thanks, this is useful and interesting.

 

[Bantamzen]

The whole thing makes no sense

Other companies can put on a service on the 15th but some choose not to and just say do not travel.

So Man Picc has Avanti, XC, TfW and the token strike day even though it's not a strike day timetable

Manchester to Leeds you can get a train on Thursday and then after that the next service is at best on Sunday

I wouldn't even attempt it on Thursday if TPE are the only option. With the expected bad weather and zero options across the Pennines by rail, I expect chaos on the M62. I just hope that this doesn't cause serious problems for people who do have to travel.

 

[TUC]

I understand that. However I do think the “stay at home” messages used by some of the TOCs are overly strong. It brings back nasty memories from COVID. For strike days, I think a “find alternative ways to travel” message is more appropriate. For non strike days, I don’t think the avoid travel messages are appropriate (eg SWR) Instead, they should warn about a later start and to check before you travel.

Same with Northern, giving 'do not travel' messages for the days between the strikes. I get the issues about later starts for some services, but why not simply say that and advise passengers to check before travelling?

 

[350401]

I think it’s a product of the TOCs having zero revenue risk. They don’t care if people travel or not, and probably prefer fewer customers on the middle days, as it means less complaints about the inevitable disruption. I’ve just got an email from c2c, advising me “essential travel only” for the entire week, including Thursday 15th and Sunday 18th. That seems OTT. I think TOCs got used to telling people to stay away during COVID, and now it’s their first go to option during any disruption.

Same with Northern, giving 'do not travel' messages for the days between the strikes. I get the issues about later starts for some services, but why not simply say that and advise passengers to check before travelling?

 

[TUC]

I think it’s a product of the TOCs having zero revenue risk. They don’t care if people travel or not, and probably prefer fewer customers on the middle days, as it means less complaints about the inevitable disruption.

i agree. It is not even an unintended consequence of TOCs having no revenue risk. It was an entirely predictable consequence and illustrates why the model does not work.

 

[Thirteen]

I think it’s a product of the TOCs having zero revenue risk. They don’t care if people travel or not, and probably prefer fewer customers on the middle days, as it means less complaints about the inevitable disruption. I’ve just got an email from c2c, advising me “essential travel only” for the entire week, including Thursday 15th and Sunday 18th. That seems OTT. I think TOCs got used to telling people to stay away during COVID, and now it’s their first go to option during any disruption.

This is a dumb question but does this apply to TOCs that are not managed by the DfT like London Overground or Elizabeth Line as neither ARL or MTR Elizabeth Line have revenue risk but I assume their contract with TfL is different to the DfT

 

[350401]

This is a dumb question but does this apply to TOCs that are not managed by the DfT like London Overground or Elizabeth Line as neither ARL or MTR Elizabeth Line have revenue risk but I assume their contract with TfL is different to the DfT

TfL advise that there will be no service on the Overground and national rail parts of the Elizabeth line before or after 7pm on strike days, and that the district line and bakerloo line branches will be impacted. However there is no “do not travel” or “essential travel only” message in the emails I’ve received. There is simple statement of fact about the disruption and that’s it. It then advises that services the following morning may be impacted and to check before travelling. So yes, a very material difference in tone.

 

[Goldfish62]

TfL advise that there will be no service on the Overground and national rail parts of the Elizabeth line before or after 7pm on strike days, and that the district line and bakerloo line branches will be impacted. However there is no “do not travel” or “essential travel only” message in the emails I’ve received. There is simple statement of fact about the disruption and that’s it. It then advises that services the following morning may be impacted and to check before travelling. So yes, a very material difference in tone.

Yes, absolutely. The sensible approach.

 

[43066]

TfL advise that there will be no service on the Overground and national rail parts of the Elizabeth line before or after 7pm on strike days, and that the district line and bakerloo line branches will be impacted. However there is no “do not travel” or “essential travel only” message in the emails I’ve received. There is simple statement of fact about the disruption and that’s it. It then advises that services the following morning may be impacted and to check before travelling. So yes, a very material difference in tone.

Yes, absolutely. The sensible approach.

Apart from the NR bits of TfL which are impacted, the rest of it is largely self contained, hence why I suppose they expect a lot less disruption.

They also cope rather better with snow than the national network (so much of theirs being in tunnels helps, of course ).

 

[Andyh82]

Extensive coverage of the strikes on BBC News both on TV and online, and they are saying that Thursday will have a reduced timetable with a possible late start

Imagine if the London media were aware of what the non strike day timetable looked like on Northern.

Why can Thameslink provide a decent service on Thursday but Northern can’t?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Extensive coverage of the strikes on BBC News both on TV and online, and they are saying that Thursday will have a reduced timetable with a possible late start

Imagine if the London media were aware of what the non strike day timetable looked like on Northern.

Why can Thameslink provide a decent service on Thursday but Northern can’t?

There are many routes in London and the South East which have limited/no
Service on the day after the strike. Chiltern for example has no service north of Banbury. This isn’t something just constrained to the ‘North’

 

[Peterthegreat]

There are many routes in London and the South East which have limited/no
Service on the day after the strike. Chiltern for example has no service north of Banbury. This isn’t something just constrained to the ‘North’

Name another?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Name another?

Reading to Gatwick Airport
Paddington to Newbury

 

[Peterthegreat]

Reading to Gatwick Airport
Paddington to Newbury

I meant name another TOC who are only running a (full) strike day timetable. Not individual lines.
And by the way the Great Western website states they will be running between Reading and Redhill and Reading and Bedwyn on the 15th.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I meant name another TOC who are only running a (full) strike day timetable. Not individual lines.

Chiltern then, they are like Northern running a strike timetable on the 15th.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Chiltern then, they are like Northern running a strike timetable on the 15th.

My question was name another. Not keep naming Chiltern. In addition other than Warwick and Warwick Parkway most stations will have services. No major towns in the south will be completely without trains unlike:-
Hexham
Workington
Whitehaven
Barrow
Blackpool (except a couple of Avanti trains)
Blackburn
Burnley
Accrington
Halifax
Barnsley
Scarborough
Bridlington
Hull (except Hull Trains).
Worksop

 

[FGW_DID]

And by the way the Great Western website states they will be running between Reading and Redhill and Reading and Bedwyn on the 15th.

EMU between Reading & Newbury
DMU between Newbury & Bedwyn

 

[HamworthyGoods]

EMU between Reading & Newbury
DMU between Newbury & Bedwyn

Indeed this is the usual stopping service. The usual 1.5tph in addition to this between Paddington and Newbury is not running.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2022 ==

My question was name another. Not keep naming Chiltern.

You asked for a L&SE TOC which is running a strike service, I’m not aware of others. Also not aware of other operators ‘up north’ running a strike service.

 

[godfreycomplex]

We tend to drink coffee and play snooker, maybe a bit of daytime telly. I reckon Northern Drivers skip the tea and do a bit of Ferret-Legging.

We had to get rid of our pool table as someone kept taking the balls.
I’m pretty sure ferret-legging is only east of the Pennines

The division between Western and Eastern divisions of Northern train crew is nothing to do with pay and conditions, one side do ferret legging and the other side play dobberts, and never the Twain shall meet. No amount of harmonising of pay and conditions would be able to address this level of division. It led to some quite ugly scenes in Leeds messroom before COVID came and the ferrets found work driving Morrisons vans

On the West side of the Pennines mess rooms resemble the Rovers Return back in the day, with compulsory Sharplesian hairnets and overcoats for all train crew and Bet Lynch presiding as TCS

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

LNR are running a full service next Thurs other than a late start due to the strike affecting the night shift. I find this makes the excuses of others a bit thin.

It makes Chiltern Railways seem rather pathetic.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2022 ==

I agree. I've taken to lambasting East Midlands Railway, on twitter, for their laziness on such days.

Their Twitter staff can be famously unhelpful, so I doubt you'll get a reply, although perhaps it's better than the often rude (although fast) responses from LNER.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2022 ==

The GWR 800/3s are painted: it's just the 800/0s that aren't in the GWR fleet. For LNER, the livery is actually quite clever as it can be applied using minimal vinyl on the white base.

It is clever to a degree, but the downside is that the livery looks as basic, lazy and cheap as it does - because it is a bit simplistic and naff.

I must say the paint on 800/3s and 802s looks far better than the already very faded vinyl on 800/0s.

-

As for "Essential Travel Only" they can say it all they want, and look very silly as a result, but they cannot enforce it in the slightest, as passengers have the right to use the railway on a strike day for whatever reason they want, they'd just be very silly for doing it.

 

[142blue]

Indeed this is the usual stopping service. The usual 1.5tph in addition to this between Paddington and Newbury is not running.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2022 ==



You asked for a L&SE TOC which is running a strike service, I’m not aware of others. Also not aware of other operators ‘up north’ running a strike service.

TPE and East Mids are not running a normal but later service on Thursday although EMR are showing incorrectly in journey planners

So if you want to go to Sheffield from Manchester your next train is Sunday!

Blackpool N only gets the Avanti trains, many of which are turned back at Preston

Huge towns left with no rail service all because it's easier not to run anything