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I struggle to see First having any big changes for a while yet. *If* the driver situation improves I guess we’ll see incremental changes – one service at a time – with frequencies boosted. But when you think of the routes that need extra capacity – I’m thinking 3, 6, 18 and 75 at least – that’s a lot of drivers.
Hopefully at some point they can look at running times as well. The amount of bunching and late running is a joke – I waited 40 minutes in the bus station for a 240 earlier. The first bus that arrived left out of service because it was 55 minutes late!
I don't see how bunching and late running can be laid at the operators door. At Anniesland Cross two days ago there were 3 x 6A's all running into the city centre at 4pm. Clearly at least 2 of them were running quite late so you would think the commonsense approach would be to turn them round early at, say, Botanic Gardens (I don't know if that's still a practice) to get them back on time but you're then left with a shortage of space for passengers from the city centre.
3 buses running together is preferable to 2 not being available. Great Western Road is a complete nightmare at most times during the day. No operator could keep to a schedule along there.
I don't see how bunching and late running can be laid at the operators door. At Anniesland Cross two days ago there were 3 x 6A's all running into the city centre at 4pm. Clearly at least 2 of them were running quite late so you would think the commonsense approach would be to turn them round early at, say, Botanic Gardens (I don't know if that's still a practice) to get them back on time but you're then left with a shortage of space for passengers from the city centre.
3 buses running together is preferable to 2 not being available. Great Western Road is a complete nightmare at most times during the day. No operator could keep to a schedule along there.
There has been roadworks along Great Western Road for about 2 weeks now too which hasn't helped whatsoever. It's somehow worse than ever. I use the 6 if I'm further up the city centre instead of walking down for a 1 or X4 but at times it's definitely quicker to avoid the 6.
First could split it somewhere but that alone doesn't fix everything.
If only the bulk at Dumbarton fleet are E300s. Although some E400s would certainly be useful and reduce the number of buses on the 1s with the current shortage of drivers.
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If only the bulk at Dumbarton fleet are E300s. Although some E400s would certainly be useful and reduce the number of buses on the 1s with the current shortage of drivers.
Dumbarton aren't miles off having enough drivers to be fair. A lot of 1s don't seem to track a lot of the time but they mostly do run.
Scotstoun and Caledonia seem to be the problem depots for driver shortages although Scotstoun has gotten a lot better in the last month or two and Caledonia seems to be improving ever so slightly each week. Blantyre also seems to be getting better too and Overtown has enough drivers to loan some to Blantyre according to previous posts on this thread.
At the weekend, it's quite common to get an electric double decker on the 60 and with Scotstoun getting electric singles in 2023, it'll be interesting to see how long it takes them to stray from the 2 and 3.
I do wonder when Overtown, Blantyre and Dumbarton will get the facilities for electric vehicles. So far on here there is nothing rumoured but with First you just never know.
Going by the cancellations seemingly dropping a bit at Scotstoun too I wouldn't rule out them having enough drivers to cover everything by the time the electric buses get there. Caledonia is the only one I see being a big struggle for the foreseeable although the early part of the week is improving slowly but surely. Capacity as well as range will be a big issue with the electric vehicles although it's the double decker ones that have a bigger drop in capacity compared to diesel options here currently.
The current 60 timetable is covered from Caledonia. At a weekend on Sunday mostly a mixture E400s both diesel and evs. With more available on a Sunday.. Saturdays are a mixture of E400s both diesel and evs supplmented with Geminis. Although still a number of buses missing most days. Or short turned. Was on a 60 today that was an eV turning at City centre. Quite a normal thing but not much use to passrngers going to the East.
The current 60 timetable is covered from Caledonia. At a weekend on Sunday mostly a mixture E400s both diesel and evs. With more available on a Sunday.. Saturdays are a mixture of E400s both diesel and evs supplmented with Geminis. Although still a number of buses missing most days. Or short turned. Was on a 60 today that was an eV turning at City centre. Quite a normal thing but not much use to passrngers going to the East.
The buses through Maryhill do seem to get cancelled an awful lot except the 8 and 90 which are only occasionally missing from experience. It's not helped either now that people can't use the X10/X10A as an alternative.
I'd love to know the process at Caledonia for allocating drivers to routes and training new starts on routes because there are some services that seem hammered by cancellations compared to others. The 4A and 7A are another two that seem to get hit more than the 4 and 7. With the 38s, the Newton Mearns runs seem to get hit more than the Eastwood Toll runs too.
I've emailed them again to ask about the app cancellations feature being brought in after testing and when to expect it so hopefully this time there is an actual date for it. At times, it's feeling like the driver shortage will be fixed before it's actually 100% up and running.
This is where the app is a major issue to be honest and why we need the cancellation feature as soon as possible. I had a lot of free time today so looked at the app more to double check a few journeys and I seen one 2 cancelled in the evening on the app and nothing else from any other depot all day.
The boards at stops are very hit and miss for being accurate for cancellations. I passed one at Cessnock and a 9, 9A and 10 were all showing as cancelled on the board but all running on the app and all 3 buses were there so the app was the correct thing. I've also seen it at Scotstoun where a 2 was cancelled but sitting right at the bus stop and tracking on the app.
While First can't control car congestion making buses late and the driver shortage being industry wide, the app needs to be a million times better than it is. The whole "live times are a prediction" issue is another thing that needs to be fixed. I've seen buses take 12-13 minutes to come when they've said 5 minutes on the app at most.
This is where the app is a major issue to be honest and why we need the cancellation feature as soon as possible. I had a lot of free time today so looked at the app more to double check a few journeys and I seen one 2 cancelled in the evening on the app and nothing else from any other depot all day.
The boards at stops are very hit and miss for being accurate for cancellations. I passed one at Cessnock and a 9, 9A and 10 were all showing as cancelled on the board but all running on the app and all 3 buses were there so the app was the correct thing. I've also seen it at Scotstoun where a 2 was cancelled but sitting right at the bus stop and tracking on the app.
While First can't control car congestion making buses late and the driver shortage being industry wide, the app needs to be a million times better than it is. The whole "live times are a prediction" issue is another thing that needs to be fixed. I've seen buses take 12-13 minutes to come when they've said 5 minutes on the app at most.
The issue with the boards is that they are not updated live with cancellations. Instead it's done 24hr before, so if drivers pick up extra shifts they don't have time to update the boards.
This is where the app is a major issue to be honest and why we need the cancellation feature as soon as possible. I had a lot of free time today so looked at the app more to double check a few journeys and I seen one 2 cancelled in the evening on the app and nothing else from any other depot all day.
The boards at stops are very hit and miss for being accurate for cancellations. I passed one at Cessnock and a 9, 9A and 10 were all showing as cancelled on the board but all running on the app and all 3 buses were there so the app was the correct thing. I've also seen it at Scotstoun where a 2 was cancelled but sitting right at the bus stop and tracking on the app.
While First can't control car congestion making buses late and the driver shortage being industry wide, the app needs to be a million times better than it is. The whole "live times are a prediction" issue is another thing that needs to be fixed. I've seen buses take 12-13 minutes to come when they've said 5 minutes on the app at most.
The cancellation feature is the main one of the two issues to be fair. If we had that working it makes things an awful lot easier. I don't mind waiting a few extra minutes for a bus so that's less of an issue. It would be good if the tracking was spot on but in the current situation, we are now onto at least 3 months of cancellation feature testing and with the driver shortage it's definitely needed.
I believe the winning bidders for the Bolton & Wigan areas have been informed and will be announced on 16 December. The vehicles listed to go are 44663-44678 and 67020-67035 (source - Firstbus enthusiasts Facebook group, the screenshot listed many planned transfers throughout First, not just these. Also includes a few B9's from Glasgow to Kernow, and a large amount of E300's going off lease....).
The cancellation feature is the main one of the two issues to be fair. If we had that working it makes things an awful lot easier. I don't mind waiting a few extra minutes for a bus so that's less of an issue. It would be good if the tracking was spot on but in the current situation, we are now onto at least 3 months of cancellation feature testing and with the driver shortage it's definitely needed.
There is no testing of a cancellation feature. It is up and running but relys on each depot actually cancelling the trips on the app. Given some depots have multiple buses off a day it’s a time consuming process to input them all.
There is no testing of a cancellation feature. It is up and running but relys on each depot actually cancelling the trips on the app. Given some depots have multiple buses off a day it’s a time consuming process to input them all.
So the social media team and customer service staff have been actively lying then? Time consuming or not, it's basic customer service that should be done each day so passengers aren't left guessing whether something will turn up or not. There isn't an excuse for not inputting it unless it's a last minute breakdown.
So the social media team and customer service staff have been actively lying then? Time consuming or not, it's basic customer service that should be done each day so passengers aren't left guessing whether something will turn up or not. There isn't an excuse for not inputting it unless it's a last minute breakdown.
It doesn't need to be someone out driving. A lot of passengers would rather have accuracy and as a business dealing with the public that should be 1st priority.
I believe the winning bidders for the Bolton & Wigan areas have been informed and will be announced on 16 December. The vehicles listed to go are 44663-44678 and 67020-67035 (source - Firstbus enthusiasts Facebook group, the screenshot listed many planned transfers throughout First, not just these. Also includes a few B9's from Glasgow to Kernow, and a large amount of E300's going off lease....).
It doesn't need to be someone out driving. A lot of passengers would rather have accuracy and as a business dealing with the public that should be 1st priority.
Has anyone considered what services could be withdrawn in order to improve the reliability of others which may duplicate some journeys as an express service?
Perhaps the X8 being removed and the 10 being adapted to operate around Pollok or the 3 using deckers and gaining a 3A variant via Alderman Rd and removing the 1C, just a thought.
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Did you know that most of Caledonia’s Staff Managers don’t have bus licences? Most other office based staff don’t have either.
During the day at Caledonia’s traffic desk there are usually three supervisors on duty with different responsibilities: one for dealing with drivers and liaising with the two Forward Allocaters etc, the 2nd supervisor deals with cancellation and dealing with bus boards which are off the road and then there is a 3rd supervisor who deals with fleet allocation & movement. None of them are normally out driving, at least from my experiences on several occasions. the depot's internal structure needs work whilst the main Depot Manager is rarely seen. The only time I recall seeing him is when he’s busy bothering with what drivers may be doing that is undesirable.
On the subject of public messaging I've just seen an E400 returning to Scotstoun with the display "Driver under instruction". Surprisingly enough the driver was the only person on the bus.
I have a horrible feeling the ex RATP E200's numbered 44441 upwards are going to end up at Overtown to replace 44663-74 and 75-78 in Glasgow. Massive step backwards. 44679-90 seem to be staying according to this document and 680-690 are slowly being de-branded, 44684 the latest to be de-branded and the first of the 242's vehicles to be done. This will see them on other routes much more often. As I say massive step back if these 09 plate vehicles end up replacing 68 plates at Overtown
Has anyone considered what services could be withdrawn in order to improve the reliability of others which may duplicate some journeys as an express service?
Perhaps the X8 being removed and the 10 being adapted to operate around Pollok or the 3 using deckers and gaining a 3A variant via Alderman Rd and removing the 1C, just a thought.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Did you know that most of Caledonia’s Staff Managers don’t have bus licences? Most other office based staff don’t have either.
During the day at Caledonia’s traffic desk there are usually three supervisors on duty with different responsibilities: one for dealing with drivers and liaising with the two Forward Allocaters etc, the 2nd supervisor deals with cancellation and dealing with bus boards which are off the road and then there is a 3rd supervisor who deals with fleet allocation & movement. None of them are normally out driving, at least from my experiences on several occasions. the depot's internal structure needs work whilst the main Depot Manager is rarely seen. The only time I recall seeing him is when he’s busy bothering with what drivers may be doing that is undesirable.
Scotstoun and Blantyre don't seem to be a million miles off of having enough drivers, from experience. The bad days with a lot of cancellations seem to be very few and far between. A couple of changes could reduce peak vehicle requirements (PVR) but I don't even know what you'd cut for that out of those depots.
If any changes come, they need to be at Caledonia more than anywhere else. The problem is that the buses are definitely getting busier, even off peak, so it's harder to make changes that won't see passengers left at bus stops. If anything we need a lot more double deckers to create the extra capacity that would allow some cuts. Some changes are needed but it's tricky to know what's best to cut now because even some of the changes I suggested recently I'd probably backtrack on a few of them.
On the note of the cancellation feature and the previous discussion about that. If you can't put them on the app, put them on the website and link it to the app like Mcgills do. First are now the only one of the big 3 who don't directly use the website for cancellations now. Blantyre and Overtown did for a while but that even stopped.
I have a horrible feeling the ex RATP E200's numbered 44441 upwards are going to end up at Overtown to replace 44663-74 and 75-78 in Glasgow. Massive step backwards. 44679-90 seem to be staying according to this document and 680-690 are slowly being de-branded, 44684 the latest to be de-branded and the first of the 242's vehicles to be done. This will see them on other routes much more often. As I say massive step back if these 09 plate vehicles end up replacing 68 plates at Overtown
I wonder if having a good fleet is part of why Overtown have generally never struggled for drivers to the scale of the Glasgow depots. I'd imagine having a good fleet to work with makes the job a lot more attractive on top of having a good depot manager as has been previously stated.
I also wonder if the fact they don't own Overtown depot would ever result in a new depot being built to merge Blantyre and Overtown into one Lanarkshire depot. I don't know where the best place to have that would be to suit all routes mind you.
They are second hand E200’s acquired by First from a dealer I assume. Ex RATP London. There are a few at Caledonia in storage. They are numbered from 44441 upwards. Also believe a few have already entered service down south.
Without knowing the full circumstances why is First even considering buying second hand buses? Surely in the long term they would be better investing in new stock, financially and otherwise. I note Stagecoach had recently ordered 200 new buses to replace older vehicles sone of which may be of a similar vintage to those First is buying second hand. . Newer buses are normally more realisable and would appeal more to potential customers than second hand vehicles of around 10 years vintage or an I being naive here? It just sounds that First wants to do things on the cheap.
Without knowing the full circumstances why is First even considering buying second hand buses? Surely in the long term they would be better investing in new stock, financially and otherwise. I note Stagecoach had recently ordered 200 new buses to replace older vehicles sone of which may be of a similar vintage to those First is buying second hand. . Newer buses are normally more realisable and would appeal more to potential customers than second hand vehicles of around 10 years vintage or an I being naive here? It just sounds that First wants to do things on the cheap.
Those 200 new buses for Stagecoach will go toward replacing 2006 and older Tridents more than anything. I don't believe First has deckers operating at that age in Scotland anymore IIRC
Those 200 new buses for Stagecoach will go toward replacing 2006 and older Tridents more than anything. I don't believe First has deckers operating at that age in Scotland anymore IIRC
We have a lot of 07, 57, 08 and 09 plate double deckers in Glasgow still but the current order of E400 EVs is covering the replacing of a fair load of them. Some of them are incredibly worn down in terms of seating. In terms of single deckers, I think it's just one 55 plate and 2 06 plates left.
We have a lot of 07, 57, 08 and 09 plate double deckers in Glasgow still but the current order of E400 EVs is covering the replacing of a fair load of them.
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