TPE Nova 3 (Class 68 + Mk5s) updates and withdrawal from service

[blackfive460]

Ah right.... That would solve it..... Except for one train a year, the Round Britain tour that stables full of passengers overnight in P1. I wonder how they will sort that, unless it doesn't go to Scarborough anymore. Or.... It departs before 0800.

If you are thinking of the RTC multi-day steam tour which will be in Scarborough next year, participants stay in hotels.

 

[BoroAndy]

If you are thinking of the RTC multi-day steam tour which will be in Scarborough next year, participants stay in hotels.

Not sure if that us the one. I was thinking of Great Britain tour, start and finish in Scotland, usually about 7 days, sleeper carriages. Belmond?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Not sure if that us the one. I was thinking of Great Britain tour, start and finish in Scotland, usually about 7 days, sleeper carriages. Belmond?

Sleeper carriages, Scotland, multi day tours and Belmond sounds like the Royal Scotsman to me?


I think we've somehow got a bit off topic...?

 

[Peter Sarf]

I'd be interested to see this when done.

And slightly O/T, between TPE North, South and TfW services, how many loco hauled movements will Manchester Piccadilly see per hour, I wonder? When did a large terminus last see so many diesel loco hauled workings?

Herewith my diagrams. Mainly done by interrogating RTT for 12/12/2022 and some from 11/01/2023.

EDIT 26/12/22.
I have based this around turnarounds at Scarborough and indicated where RTT alludes to a from/to headcodes.
The letter "|" is used to link diagrams that are ECS from/to service train (my assumption here).
I have used ->n leading to >-n to link headcodes that are not one above the other (very much guess work on that).
Others are vertically above so probably do not need indicating (my assumptions).

I will one day check for more from/to headcodes in RTT as more might get added.

Platform numbers at Scarborough are a bit hit and miss. Will see if these get corrected later.

So not yet definite what works what all day but will become clear when locos and sets get allocated ON & AFTER 12/12/2022.
END EDIT.

(spreadsheet at the bottom of my post)



Cleethorpes I worked out a while ago for Dec 2022 onwards.


Spreadsheet below - if it works.

 

[blackfive460]

Sleeper carriages, Scotland, multi day tours and Belmond sounds like the Royal Scotsman to me?

Can't see anything on Belmond's site but if they do run, maybe they'll have to go elsewhere overnight.

I think we've somehow got a bit off topic...?

Easily done!

 

[68011]

There are no services from Liverpool towards Sheffield booked for 68 & LHCS other than 5B80.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Nov 2022 ==


Assuming there are no changes to the plan there should be 7 diagrams on the North route but as you say how deliverable that plan is from a staffing perspective is anyone's guess.

There have been more 'late' changes to the plan, expect some Scarborough services to now be 185's from the timetable change.

 

[BoroAndy]

There have been more 'late' changes to the plan, expect some Scarborough services to now be 185's from the timetable change.

Might make sense to have sets of 185s doing the SCA YRK shuttles while the 68s do longer distance.

 

[68011]

Might make sense to have sets of 185s doing the SCA YRK shuttles while the 68s do longer distance.

185's will be on the Manchester - Scarborough circuit.

185 shuttles York-Scarborough on Sundays for the first few weeks of the timetable due to engineering work.

All academic if the planned strikes go ahead which i believe we will know for certain by 5pm Monday as to whether they will or not, with the incoming overtime ban and strikes it appears where the railway will actually be able to open it will only be open from 07:00 to 19:00hrs for 4 weeks!

Some areas won't get any service at all!

Will be January sometime before you'll see the December 22 timetable running.

 

[Peter Sarf]

185's will be on the Manchester - Scarborough circuit.

185 shuttles York-Scarborough on Sundays for the first few weeks of the timetable due to engineering work.

All academic if the planned strikes go ahead which i believe we will know for certain by 5pm Monday as to whether they will or not, with the incoming overtime ban and strikes it appears where the railway will actually be able to open it will only be open from 07:00 to 19:00hrs for 4 weeks!

Some areas won't get any service at all!

Will be January sometime before you'll see the December 22 timetable running.

Would it be easier to ask which services ARE going to be 68+Mk5s ?.

 

[68011]

Would it be easier to ask which services ARE going to be 68+Mk5s ?.

On the North Route this is the Class 185 diagram EWD that would have been a Class 68 + Mk5a set.

5U23 05:23 XRK-MAN
1U23 05:35 MAN-SCA
1U44 10:35 SCA-MAN
1U55 13:35 MAN-SCA
1U68 16:48 SCA-MAN
5W68 19:24 MAN-XRK

Info from RTT https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...2/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=TP

All other workings Monday to Saturday from / to Scarborough are Class 68’s + Mk5a sets for which there are 6 diagrams.

If the info isn’t posted before then a week Monday it will possible to work out the actual diagrams by browsing through RTT.

 

[route101]

How many loco hauled sets are out during the week and at the weekend? Are any still going over the pennines to Liverpool and Manchester?

 

[Peter Sarf]

On the North Route this is the Class 185 diagram EWD that would have been a Class 68 + Mk5a set.

5U23 05:23 XRK-MAN
1U23 05:35 MAN-SCA
1U44 10:35 SCA-MAN
1U55 13:35 MAN-SCA
1U68 16:48 SCA-MAN
5W68 19:24 MAN-XRK

Info from RTT https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...2/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=TP

All other workings Monday to Saturday from / to Scarborough are Class 68’s + Mk5a sets for which there are 6 diagrams.

If the info isn’t posted before then a week Monday it will possible to work out the actual diagrams by browsing through RTT.

Thanks for that, I shall update my spreadsheet.

How many loco hauled sets are out during the week and at the weekend? Are any still going over the pennines to Liverpool and Manchester?

@68011 in the post you replied to says 6 diagrams. I will work out how many of those get across the Pennines. Until I work it out I guess about 50%, but i will assume some have to so they can exchange at Longsight (Scarborough seems to no longer be an important depot for the Mk5s).

 

[PennineSuperb]

Thanks for that, I shall update my spreadsheet.

@68011 in the post you replied to says 6 diagrams. I will work out how many of those get across the Pennines. Until I work it out I guess about 50%, but i will assume some have to so they can exchange at Longsight (Scarborough seems to no longer be an important depot for the Mk5s).

Scarborough LMD comes back online from December 2022 for both servicing at night, and ‘Splash & Dash’ during the day.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Scarborough LMD comes back online from December 2022 for both servicing at night, and ‘Splash & Dash’ during the day.

Ah. So maybe no stock rotation via the Manchester end ?.

 

[68011]

Ah. So maybe no stock rotation via the Manchester end ?.

4 sets are planned to start the day from the Scarborough end. 2 sets are stabled in the station overnight. 2 sets stable on the depot overnight and 2 sets start the day from Longsight.

No sets are fuelled on the depot at Scarborough between 7pm & 7am, to get round the noise complaints.

IIRC both the sets that start the day from Scarborough Depot are fuelled before they depart after 7am.

Both the sets starting the day from Longsight visit Scarborough Depot during the day and both finish the day and stable in Scarborough station overnight, both the sets that start the day from Scarborough Depot end the day at Longsight and both the sets that start the day from Scarborough Station end the day and stable overnight on Scarborough Depot.

 

[Peter Sarf]

4 sets are planned to start the day from the Scarborough end. 2 sets are stabled in the station overnight. 2 sets stable on the depot overnight and 2 sets start the day from Longsight.

No sets are fuelled on the depot at Scarborough between 7pm & 7am, to get round the noise complaints.

IIRC both the sets that start the day from Scarborough Depot are fuelled before they depart after 7am.

Both the sets starting the day from Longsight visit Scarborough Depot during the day and both finish the day and stable in Scarborough station overnight, both the sets that start the day from Scarborough Depot end the day at Longsight and both the sets that start the day from Scarborough Station end the day and stable overnight on Scarborough Depot.

Ah. Those are good pieces of information, thankyou. I might be able to reflect that pattern in my spreadsheet. From memory of my spreadsheet what you say would make sense and I bet it does.

 

[68011]

It appears there are further timetable amendments, 1P07, 1U36, 1U71 & 1P98 have been cancelled with 1P07 & 1P98 being replaced by buses between York & Scarborough and vice versa.

Non-Passenger services -

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...9?stp=WVS&show=non-passenger&order=wtt&toc=TP

Passenger services -

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt&toc=TP

 

[Fokx]

It appears there are further timetable amendments, 1P07, 1U36, 1U71 & 1P98 have been cancelled with 1P07 & 1P98 being replaced by buses between York & Scarborough and vice versa.

Non-Passenger services -

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...9?stp=WVS&show=non-passenger&order=wtt&toc=TP

Passenger services -

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt&toc=TP

Engineering blocks.

1P98 exists in the new timetable but is impacted by these works. In mid-Feb some diagrams even start from Malton.

 

[xotGD]

It appears there are further timetable amendments, 1P07, 1U36, 1U71 & 1P98 have been cancelled with 1P07 & 1P98 being replaced by buses between York & Scarborough and vice versa.

Non-Passenger services -

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...9?stp=WVS&show=non-passenger&order=wtt&toc=TP

Passenger services -

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt&toc=TP

I was planning to do 1U71 back from Manchester on Monday. Withered!

Hopefully 1U28 will still produce in the morning to get me there.

 

[68011]

Engineering blocks.

1P98 exists in the new timetable but is impacted by these works. In mid-Feb some diagrams even start from Malton.

The temporary removal of these services from the timetable is nothing to do with engineering blocks.

The block from Malton to Scarborough is Tuesday 31st January to Friday 3rd February rather than mid February.

 

[BoroAndy]

The temporary removal of these services from the timetable is nothing to do with engineering blocks.

The block from Malton to Scarborough is Tuesday 31st January to Friday 3rd February rather than mid February.

What is this block for precisely?

 

[68011]

68020 & TP02 is working 1B73 09:26 CLE-MAN as booked today, return working is 1B76 13:18 MAN-CLE.

Also booked to work the same services Friday & Saturday.

 

[Peter Sarf]

So here is my latest spreadsheet for the diagrams the TPE Mk5s will do from the December 2022 time table change.

Thanks for the extra bits of info from posters above including @68011.

Its obviously going to be subject to change (and errors) and will not be a proper reality until (well) after Christmas.

 

[Killingworth]

68020 & TP02 is working 1B73 09:26 CLE-MAN as booked today, return working is 1B76 13:18 MAN-CLE.

Also booked to work the same services Friday & Saturday.

Quite a surprise to see one in service running through Dore with IB73 this morning. I've resisted the temptation to add a photo to prove it happened! Most TPE trains on South Pennine today were cancelled, terminated short or late.

IB76 was a 185. IB78 was the return working to Cleethorpes that I saw but didn't picture - and nor did ITV's Calendar reporter who was filming at that time! (For transmission in a report about strikes and railways next week.)

 

[68011]

So here is my latest spreadsheet for the diagrams the TPE Mk5s will do from the December 2022 time table change.

Thanks for the extra bits of info from posters above including @68011.

Its obviously going to be subject to change (and errors) and will not be a proper reality until (well) after Christmas.

1B64 & 1B85 are the only workings booked for a Class 68 & Mk5a’s on the South Route, everything else is booked for 185’s.

 

[gledhill56]

Be interesting to see if 1U71 (1730 Manchester Piccadilly-Scarborough) remains a Cl68 given it calls at all stations between Stalybridge and Huddersfield…

 

[68011]

Be interesting to see if 1U71 (1730 Manchester Piccadilly-Scarborough) remains a Cl68 given it calls at all stations between Stalybridge and Huddersfield…

1U71 is one of the services that’s supposedly been withdrawn until mid-February as I posted up thread.

It along with the other 3 services show up in RTT however if you go into the filter then down to service type and put in non-passenger workings you’ll find the 4 services that are effectively cancelled.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...9?stp=WVS&show=non-passenger&order=wtt&toc=TP

Buses replace 1P07 between York & Scarborough and 1P98 between Scarborough & York however nothing seemingly replaces either 1U36 or 1U71 on the branch.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Be interesting to see if 1U71 (1730 Manchester Piccadilly-Scarborough) remains a Cl68 given it calls at all stations between Stalybridge and Huddersfield…

SDO makes that possible but still interesting to look out for.

 

[68011]

Be interesting to see if 1U71 (1730 Manchester Piccadilly-Scarborough) remains a Cl68 given it calls at all stations between Stalybridge and Huddersfield…

1U31 07:29 MAN-SCA makes the same calls and that’s booked for a Cl68 & Mk5a set, in the opposite direction you have 1U20 05:37 YRK-MAN, 1U28 06:48 SCA-MAN & 1U60 14:48 SCA-MAN calling all stations HUD-SYB booked for Cl68’s & Mk5a sets.

 

[xotGD]

I have just booked my ticket to Manchester for Monday via or corporate travel provider. Interestingly, it was still offering the 17:30 off Pic for the return journey. Taking no chances, I've reserved on the 18:00 from Vic!

Hopefully 1U28 will produce in the morning.