GWR IET's next refresh?

[heathrowrail]

When are GWR's IET's next due for major overhaul? It can't be far off being 5 years old now it's about time they put the proper GWR carpet inside them not the cheap Hitachi cord one. Sorted out the seats and rattily panels and upgraded First Class to a proper offering instead of the current premium economy approach. I would imagine the 800/0 will be repainted at the next big overhaul instead of keeping vinyls? The paintwork around the lights seems to be chipping away on a lot of units too.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You not liking the IET’s first class seats does not mean they are not proper first class.

 

[800001]

Maybe in another 5-10 years they will do a refresh.

5 years in service is not a long time.

 

[WizCastro197]

When are GWR's IET's next due for major overhaul? It can't be far off being 5 years old now it's about time they put the proper GWR carpet inside them not the cheap Hitachi cord one. Sorted out the seats and rattily panels and upgraded First Class to a proper offering instead of the current premium economy approach. I would imagine the 800/0 will be repainted at the next big overhaul instead of keeping vinyls? The paintwork around the lights seems to be chipping away on a lot of units too.

Aside from First Class, I do think 80x do needs refreshes but not yet, 5 years is nothing, 376s have been in service since 2004 and haven't been touched yet. On IETs Some panels seem to be falling off or close to and they do just seem like such cold trains. Cold in a metaphorical way.

 

[superalbs]

You not liking the IET’s first class seats does not mean they are not proper first class.

Most companies use them as a second class seat. There's nothing premium about them.

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I agree that they're looking tired already. A lot of that can be fixed by replacing the carpet and other cheap rubbish materials, though. Much like how the original seat covers were terrible for showing stains.

It'd be nice if they actually fit in with the GWR brand though, as at the moment the interior sticks out as a nasty cheap knock-off compared to (for example) the 158s and 387s which look very smart.

 

[irish_rail]

The 800s all have new carpets now as far as I can tell however the 802s don't. Not sure if the plan is to do them to. Id say replacing the standard seating is by far the biggest problem now, it's scarily uncomfortable especially as the seat bases have almost all now collapsed forcing the occupant to sit on top of the bare metal bar. They simply are not suitable, especially on the Penzance route. Maybe new seating could be justified for the 9 car 802s? Although I guess the money probably just isn't there right now.

 

[Pete_uk]

Better vibration and shock absorption would be good

 

[superalbs]

The 800s all have new carpets now as far as I can tell however the 802s don't. Not sure if the plan is to do them to. Id say replacing the standard seating is by far the biggest problem now, it's scarily uncomfortable especially as the seat bases have almost all now collapsed forcing the occupant to sit on top of the bare metal bar. They simply are not suitable, especially on the Penzance route. Maybe new seating could be justified for the 9 car 802s? Although I guess the money probably just isn't there right now.

New carpets (as in a new design that isn't going to stain so much), or just replacements?

 

[heathrowrail]

New carpets (as in a new design that isn't going to stain so much), or just replacements?

As in match the rest of the GWR fleet. Dark green stripes for Standard and the FC diamond/Night Riviera one for First.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2022 ==

You not liking the IET’s first class seats does not mean they are not proper first class.

They are not a proper first class. I remember doing Pullman when the IET's had just been introduced, everyone said it was basically a Standard class seat that reclines, FC was not worth the money anymore and how bad it was. The previous HST FC was a proper First Class.

 

[Energy]

The 800s all have new carpets now as far as I can tell however the 802s don't. Not sure if the plan is to do them to. Id say replacing the standard seating is by far the biggest problem now, it's scarily uncomfortable especially as the seat bases have almost all now collapsed forcing the occupant to sit on top of the bare metal bar. They simply are not suitable, especially on the Penzance route. Maybe new seating could be justified for the 9 car 802s? Although I guess the money probably just isn't there right now.

I haven't used the class 197s yet though there seat is meant to be not bad. A new cushion on the 800/802s is more realistic than changing the seats completely.

 

[stuu]

They are not a proper first class. I remember doing Pullman when the IET's had just been introduced, everyone said it was basically a Standard class seat that reclines, FC was not worth the money anymore and how bad it was. The previous HST FC was a proper First Class.

The first class on HSTs looked amazing, but the seats were nothing like as comfortable as they looked, in my experience. To the point of being a big disappointment.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The first class on HSTs looked amazing, but the seats were nothing like as comfortable as they looked, in my experience. To the point of being a big disappointment.

I absolutely agree with this - tried those big leather like GWR first class seats two or three times and could never get comfortable on them. They were very slippery as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I haven't used the class 197s yet though there seat is meant to be not bad. A new cushion on the 800/802s is more realistic than changing the seats completely.

They will be bad, just give it a few months. The Sophia is a flawed design.

Could be fixed with a new base with a metal plate under it though.

 

[heathrowrail]

I absolutely agree with this - tried those big leather like GWR first class seats two or three times and could never get comfortable on them. They were very slippery as well.

Funny because I had no problem and always managed to nearly go to sleep in them. I doubt they are that bad considering Scotrail and Midland Pullman took a lot of them on.

 

[JonathanH]

Funny because I had no problem and always managed to nearly go to sleep in them.

The seat cushion is both too firm and too slippery. The back cushion and headrest isn't bad.

 

[fgwrich]

Aside from First Class, I do think 80x do needs refreshes but not yet, 5 years is nothing, 376s have been in service since 2004 and haven't been touched yet. On IETs Some panels seem to be falling off or close to and they do just seem like such cold trains. Cold in a metaphorical way.

Indeed, it shows you what good build quality and regular maintenance can achieve (well, maybe not so in the case of the 376s) given that our SWR Desiro's have only just been refurbished. They still feel as good as new inside, and that SWT interior certainly wore well from new. The IET's however seemed to very much be somewhere in-between, designed to look 'good' but let down by the quality of materials and build quality.

I absolutely agree with this - tried those big leather like GWR first class seats two or three times and could never get comfortable on them. They were very slippery as well.

I have to admit, I always find comments like this interesting. Not least as I'm sat in mine right now, and I can definitely get comfortable in mine. It's not that slippery, the base is fine. My only issue is that they never reclined as much as perhaps I'd like them too, but like everything to do with seats, it's a subject manner. Still, a lot, lot better than the seat that preceded them (the dreaded IC70).

 

[Bletchleyite]

For all I dislike the Sophia, I'd take one over an IC70 any day.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

For all I dislike the Sophia, I'd take one over an IC70 any day.

Agreed. I also notice the metal bar you often speak of on GWR 800/0s nowadays. I’m yet to feel it on other Sophias but it won’t be long.

 

[popeter45]

when they do refresh the IET's i would say rip out the kitchen, only pullman uses them and rumor is thats going so no point in having it any more

 

[RailWonderer]

The GWR IETs feel like a cheap budget option with a premium ticket price, Lumo feels more premium in comparison. Only a trolley service and rock hard seats for a 5 hour journey to Penzance and I'd drive. Kitchens for pullman dining are stupidity since only a small handful of service daily use it. They could have had a subfleet of 10 or so with kitchens and kept them on those diagrams. GA did that with 745/0s which have first class, a buffet and tables for the Norwich IC and the 745/1s for the StanEx. The DaFT as usual never think things through properly and cost is the only metric, not value, or the long term, or consultations, purely the numbers. Seats, cost, etc as if they were operating a ryanair on rails.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2022 ==

For all I dislike the Sophia, I'd take one over an IC70 any day.

What? Even the Chiltern IC70?

 

[irish_rail]

The GWR IETs feel like a cheap budget option with a premium ticket price, Lumo feels more premium in comparison. Only a trolley service and rock hard seats for a 5 hour journey to Penzance and I'd drive. Kitchens for pullman dining are stupidity since only a small handful of service daily use it. They could have had a subfleet of 10 or so with kitchens and kept them on those diagrams. GA did that with 745/0s which have first class, a buffet and tables for the Norwich IC and the 745/1s for the StanEx. The DaFT as usual never think things through properly and cost is the only metric, not value, or the long term, or consultations, purely the numbers. Seats, cost, etc as if they were operating a ryanair on rails.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2022 ==


What? Even the Chiltern IC70?

Trouble is with a small sub fleet on GWR is that it would inevitably cause big problems at Paddington and totally lose the ability to swap sets as required which would be detrimental to the Penzance route. A kitchen is needed in my opinion certainly on all 9 car sets. Perhaps bin them from the 5s and keep the 5s away from the south west?

The seating on the other hand is beyond bad now for as you say 5 hour journies (many passengers are doing at least 3 to 4 hours and many between 4 and 5). That puts the route alongside anglo Scottish stuff and I'm not sure those routes would settle for such poor seating in standard. The worst thing is they have got much worse with age, and we are only 4 years in! What will the padding be like in another 4 years?! Something needs to be done.

 

[cactustwirly]

when they do refresh the IET's i would say rip out the kitchen, only pullman uses them and rumor is thats going so no point in having it any more

That would make a difference on the overcrowding on Bristol, Oxford and South Wales services that don't have the Pullman anyway

 

[Bletchleyite]

What? Even the Chiltern IC70?

Yes, the things are dire. Narrow, uncomfortable, total lack of support. I go for the declassified business zone on those.

As for IETs I would do a dedicated 9 car sub fleet for Cornwall with new seats, a low density layout, lots of luggage space, family coach and buffet counter with standing tables. Basically an ICE like interior. Same for LNER for the services that go past Edinburgh.

 

[cactustwirly]

Yes, the things are dire. Narrow, uncomfortable, total lack of support. I go for the declassified business zone on those.

As for IETs I would do a dedicated 9 car sub fleet for Cornwall with new seats, a low density layout, lots of luggage space, family coach and buffet counter with standing tables. Basically an ICE like interior. Same for LNER for the services that go past Edinburgh.

That's not feasible as there are no dedicated trains in the current timetable.
9 car 802s work to Penzance, as well as Oxford, Bristol and Swansea where the capacity is needed.

They just need the new lumo seats fitting and maybe a microbuffet with a coffee machine.

Get rid of the kitchen in the 5 car sets and re-seat to have 1 driving car of first and 4 cars of standard accomodation

 

[stuu]

As for IETs I would do a dedicated 9 car sub fleet for Cornwall with new seats, a low density layout, lots of luggage space, family coach and buffet counter with standing tables. Basically an ICE like interior. Same for LNER for the services that go past Edinburgh.

That's only needed in the Summer though, and really only peak. That really would be the tail wagging the dog in terms of usage. In the week and especially the winter there's very little travel past Plymouth, if the reservations are a reliable guide.

 

[Energy]

Trouble is with a small sub fleet on GWR is that it would inevitably cause big problems at Paddington and totally lose the ability to swap sets as required which would be detrimental to the Penzance route. A kitchen is needed in my opinion certainly on all 9 car sets. Perhaps bin them from the 5s and keep the 5s away from the south west?

The 9 car 800s were for South Wales only and were 801, the 5 car 800s were for the other intercity services (apart from Devon and Cornwall) with splitting on many services. I have no clue why the 5 car sets have a kitchen since the pullman services are South Wales and Penzance neither of which the 5 car 800s were ordered for. Since you work for GWR do you know why?

Would have hoped that the 802s would be all 9 car with a longer distance layout as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe GWR wanted to do a dedicated long distance 802 fleet but were told they couldn't by DaFT, so it is not far fetched nor impractical.

 

[Energy]

I believe GWR wanted to do a dedicated long distance 802 fleet but were told they couldn't by DaFT, so it is not far fetched nor impractical.

Indeed, they had to be to the same spec as the 800s. There were other options than the 802s, I think class 222s were talked about.

 

[heathrowrail]

Trouble is with a small sub fleet on GWR is that it would inevitably cause big problems at Paddington and totally lose the ability to swap sets as required which would be detrimental to the Penzance route. A kitchen is needed in my opinion certainly on all 9 car sets. Perhaps bin them from the 5s and keep the 5s away from the south west?

The seating on the other hand is beyond bad now for as you say 5 hour journies (many passengers are doing at least 3 to 4 hours and many between 4 and 5). That puts the route alongside anglo Scottish stuff and I'm not sure those routes would settle for such poor seating in standard. The worst thing is they have got much worse with age, and we are only 4 years in! What will the padding be like in another 4 years?! Something needs to be done.

Back in the HST days only a select few buffet coaches with full kitchens could run the Pullman service 99% of the time they had the right allocations so i'm sure it could be done with the IET's. The majority of the kitchen spaces could be taken away and instead used as bicycle and large luggage storage.

 

[43096]

Back in the HST days only a select few buffet coaches with full kitchens could run the Pullman service 99% of the time they had the right allocations so i'm sure it could be done with the IET's.

It was more than a "select few" - any set with a 407xx or 408xx catering car could be used for Pullman services.