West Coast Franchise

[Failed Unit]

What do people hope to see out of the next West Coast Franchise?

I suspect people would like to see Glasgow hourly, Liverpool half hourly and a London - Blackpool / preston service calling at Nuneaton, Tamworth etc to connect at Preston with the Scottish services. Of course more electric trains to remove voyagers 100% under the wires diagrams.

What about catering? Keep it the same?

Stations? What improvements here to get some of the worse stations in the uk back to standard?

Revenue protection? I don't like barriers on IC terminals like Euston but I can see the need at many other places.

I know we have the fine line between micro manage and allow the operator to innovate, I am not sure after NXEC where I sit on that now.

 

[TheWalrus]

London-Shrewsbury definitely, London-Blackpool when the wires reach there, more pendos to displace 221s to london-shrewsbury and XC, bi-hourly to holyhead.

 

[lm321412]

Interesting.

I would like to see the Liverpool service doubled at peak times to meet demand to what is a very big city with an infrequent service to London (compared with Manchester and Birmingham). I don't think the proposed Liverpool - London service by LM is any sort of solution to what we do need.

A peaktime London Euston - Blackpool North service calling at Nuneaton, Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western, Preston and Blackpool North

Another peaktime only service London Euston - Shrewsbury calling at Nuneaton, Walsall, Wolverhampton, Telford Central and Shrewsbury

On a personal note, I would like to see more peaktime services to places such as Nuneaton, Tamworth and Lichfield Trent Valley. Especially during the morning peak

Refurbishment of the Pendolino and Super Voyagers would be very good, as some of the sets are becoming fairly tired now internally. Catering is what I really hope would stay the same, as its fairly good now and the shop is very big with plenty of options avaliable to buy.

More Pendolinos or Pretendolinos ( dream on ) to replace the 221s from Birmingham - Scotland. Could then of course move 221s over to Cross Country to enable them to increase capacity where they really need it (and not sat in the sidings like some of the HSTs!)

 

[the wrekin]

Many people in Shropshire are campaigning for a direct Shropshire (calling at Shrewsbury, Wellington and Telford stations) to London service to replace the WSMR. Shropshire is now the only English without a direct rail service to London and all 5 Shropshire MPs are seeing the Transport Minister to urge inclusion into the specifications of the new West Coast franchise in March. Early indications are that this maybe agreed.

 

[Failed Unit]

If Shrewsbury ever happened it would be best as an extension of a Birmingham service, in a perfect world using a London midland fast path and releasing turbos for strengthening other services. Can't see it happening but I would love to see the wires hit Shrewsbury, the local service could then be an EMU extension of the stopping service. In the peak I am sure the demand would nearly fill the standard offering of a pendo.

 

[TomJ93]

A useful task for Voyagers I guess?

All Pendolinos lengthened to 11 cars, having a mixed fleet will be an operational nightmare.

I'd also like to see Nuneaton get a better service, not because I live there but the times i've been there apart from the XC trains it's been crap! I'd really like to see a Euston- Coventry-Nuneaton and up the trunk of the WCML service, using 221s.

 

[Zoe]

I'd also like to see Nuneaton get a better service, not because I live there but the times i've been there apart from the XC trains it's been crap! I'd really like to see a Euston- Coventry-Nuneaton and up the trunk of the WCML service, using 221s.

The current service between Coventry and Nuneaton is quite poor but I'd prefer to see a service from Coventry to Leicester. They are both large cities but no direct train service between them.

 

[Failed Unit]

I can't see Euston - coventry - Nuneaton ever happening. I could see Euston - Nuneaton - Birmingham but of course that would need wires between Nuneaton and birmingham. I know voyagers could do it but that is a bit of a waste.

 

[dk1]

The current service between Coventry and Nuneaton is quite poor but I'd prefer to see a service from Coventry to Leicester. They are both large cities but no direct train service between them.

But this would as before have to cross the WCML on the level. There is no way Virgin or any other operator of the VHF timetable could tolerate this now. The only other option is a time consuming run up the Water Orton route & back over the flyover.

 

[Zoe]

But this would as before have to cross the WCML on the level. There is no way Virgin or any other operator of the VHF timetable could tolerate this now.

That's the point though, it's all very well providing fast and frequent trains to Manchester but should this have been done at the expense of local service? As discussed elsewhere there doesn't even seem much point in the VHF as the fares are so high you have to book in advance and are restricted to one train. Maybe HS2 should have been built in the first place rather than upgrading the WCML.

 

[me123]

I suspect people would like to see Glasgow hourly, Liverpool half hourly and a London - Blackpool / preston service calling at Nuneaton, Tamworth etc to connect at Preston with the Scottish services. Of course more electric trains to remove voyagers 100% under the wires diagrams.

What about catering? Keep it the same?

Stations? What improvements here to get some of the worse stations in the uk back to standard?

Revenue protection? I don't like barriers on IC terminals like Euston but I can see the need at many other places.

I know we have the fine line between micro manage and allow the operator to innovate, I am not sure after NXEC where I sit on that now.

In an ideal world, Glasgow once an hour (perhaps with some additional runs as required) would be great. I'd like to see a Crewe stop included for transfers to the South WCML. Let's keep the Scotland-Birmingham as they are. Liverpool should be served twice an hour; and perhaps the second train should call more frequently than the existing service. I'd like service frequencies to remain the same otherwise; VHF has been a success for many cities including Manchester and Birmingham.

I concur with the suggestion to lengthen all the Pendolinos to 11 carriages. Obviously, you'll need Voyagers (or some other DMU) for North Wales operation, but put Pendolinos on Scotland-Birmingham and free up some Voyagers to either strengthen existing diesel services, operate new ones (eg to Blackpool North until its electrified, or Shropshire) or even pass them over to CrossCountry.

I'd like the catering provision to stay the same. I love the shop. We have highlighted some areas on here for improvement in the shop, and they should be taken forward (eg allowing card payment, giving them a decent cash float, a better stocked facility etc). In addition, I'd like to see them widen the range of food available for lunch or a light meal (the hot snacks and sandwiches have always been fairly limited in my experience). But I like the idea of the shop, and it should remain IMO. I can't comment on FC, although I'd like to see the FC provision improved on Anglo-Scottish services. East Coast can do it; why not West Coast?

 

[MCR247]

I don't want anything ridiculous:

1tph to Glasgow fast to Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme/Penrith, Carlisle
1tph to Lancaster: Nuneaton, Crewe(?), Warrington, Wigan, Preston

Then 2 hourly to Liverpool, at least in the peak.

Maybe you transfer the Nuneaton call to the second Liverpool?

Oh, and give Birmingham - Scotland to XC

 

[dk1]

That's the point though, it's all very well providing fast and frequent trains to Manchester but should this have been done at the expense of local service? As discussed elsewhere there doesn't even seem much point in the VHF as the fares are so high you have to book in advance and are restricted to one train. Maybe HS2 should have been built in the first place rather than upgrading the WCML.

But if you are a business traveller your company pays so you always have the most expensive ticket & will not want to be time specific. Nobody cares how much if they're not paying themselves they just want to be hassle free.

Surely the 200 passengers on express Pendos out weigh the 25 wanting to cross all lines on a scud?

 

[Zoe]

Surely the 200 passengers on express Pendos out weigh the 25 wanting to cross all lines on a scud?

If a decent service was provided from Coventry to Leicester I'm sure you'd have quite a few more people using it.

 

[dk1]

If a decent service was provided from Coventry to Leicester I'm sure you'd have quite a few more people using it.

But there was a through service before & yes some where reasonably used but many where not. It just doesnt fit anymore & although it would be nice to have a through service not everyone can be accomodated. At Nuneaton you can at least get a cuppa (& spot for a while!!)

 

[Failed Unit]

I must admit the 2 reasons I miss the Crewe stop in the London - Glasgow services could both be solved if pendolino took over Birmingham - Scotland.

1. The on train offerings are not as good on the Voyager.
2. Lack of seats, the train is often standing by Crewe.

I am not sure if the pendolino was used if that would satisfy people wanting to change at Crewe. London - Birmingham - Scotland would be useful, I doubt anyone would use it all the way through but it would give Coventry, Birmingham internatonal and either rugby or Milton Keynes a direct train north. May reduce diagrams and give Wolverhamton another direct train to London (or free up a path)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But there was a through service before & yes some where reasonably used but many where not. It just doesnt fit anymore & although it would be nice to have a through service not everyone can be accomodated. At Nuneaton you can at least get a cuppa (& spot for a while!!)

I must admit as a former user of the then Coventry - Grimsby service, I used to use it mainly to connect into the XC service to the South Coast. I would need to change twice. The Oxford - leicester / Nottingham trade tends to change at new street. My journeys now tend to be via London and tough luck to anyone who wants to do Loughborough - Birmingham / Coventry direct. It is all for the greater good :-/

With the reversal I can't see how the could have got around this. I don't know if a "skegness - Nottingham" solution would be possible.

 

[Zoe]

With the reversal I can't see how the could have got around this.

I believe a signalled move exists via the flyover.

 

[WatcherZero]

I would like to see all Pendolinos lengthened, a couple of extra services but more importantly none taken away but what I would most look to is a stations improvement program to bring all or at least the 10 worst in the franchise upto a high quality standard. Even Virgin tried early in their franchise (2001-2004) to get some major stations improvements but were told to butt out by Dft/Railtrack/NR their job was to run stations not to improve them as they were not the landlords. There is a lot of WCML stations which havent been touched since the 70's and I want these brought up to 21st century standards and looks.

 

[S19]

I just hope Lancaster's current level of service isn't affected for the worse.

 

[The Planner]

I believe a signalled move exists via the flyover.

You can do it, but you wouldn't want to unless you really had to....The North chord is going to be fun and games as it is without adding reversing moves like that in.

 

[Statto]

Platforms at some stations like Lime Street will have to be extended to accommodate 11 car trains,. 2 an hour peak Liverpool-London, extra Evening trains to London, last Southbound service from Liverpool about 10pm/10:30pm including Saturdays, 2 more Evening trains on Saturday to Chester

 

[Pumbaa]

I don't want anything ridiculous:

1tph to Glasgow fast to Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme/Penrith, Carlisle
1tph to Lancaster: Nuneaton, Crewe(?), Warrington, Wigan, Preston

Then 2 hourly to Liverpool, at least in the peak.

Maybe you transfer the Nuneaton call to the second Liverpool?

Oh, and give Birmingham - Scotland to XC

My preferred solution for Liverpool would be 1tph at xx07 calling Watford/MK/Rugby, Crewe, Runcorn and Liverpool, 1tph at xx33 calling Stafford, Warrington, St Helens, Liverpool. This would involve re-instating the Earlestown West Chord (which is possible) and would have only 2/3 minutes extra journey time.

Net result:

- North of London gets a service to Liverpool (finally!)
- The xx10 also alternates with the xx07 to call Watford/MK/Rugby
- Stafford to Warrington reconnected
- St Helens (a sizeable chunk of Lancashire could commute) gets a London service
- Warrington (again acts as a railhead for Lancashire) gets 2tph, although that would mean removing the Warrington stop from the Glasgow Pendolinos is justified.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Shrewsbury- Euston would be nice but only if Wolves to Salop gets wired then a couple of Pendo's from Oxley could go ECS to Salop in the morning to start with a couple back in the evening, not sure how it would work with 221's as the 1st class does make money on the Brum-London jobs in the peaks.

 

[tbtc]

I'd like to see the following (instead of just agreeing with the points above I thought I'd add a couple more)

1. Electrification from Crewe to Chester, so that the Chester servics could be EMU
2. Integration with LM (since both TOCs will be running London - Liverpool and both will be running Birmingham - Preston)
3. Integration with the TPE services through Preston, once the Bolton line is electrified
4. Possibly taking over the Birmingham - Manchester route too (why waste precious Voyagers on it when its wholly electrified? potential for Manchester - Bristol via Shrewsbury like back in the old days)

 

[MCR247]

Ooh, I have to disagree on point 4, you are removing the third biggest city off the XC route, and you will then need to find platform space for an extra 4 terminating tph in New St

 

[Aictos]

I would be happy with:

The entire Class 390 fleet being extended to 11 cars

Run more Electrics instead of Diesels under the wires elsewhere by buying more 11 car 390s and dragging them on unelectrified bits

Introduce a Blackpool service alternating with a Lancaster service

Route Wide Station Improvement Programme

Ensure Holyhead as well as Blackpool gets wires

 

[Ivo]

Isn't Holyhead asking a bit much for wires? I'm not sure how the people of places like Middlesbrough would take to being overlooked for an area like North Wales.

I still stand by my previous idea of wiring as far as Chester, though, and extending one Brum Pendo to cover the current Voyager (which could then go elsewhere), and also extending a second to Shrewsbury (again with wiring). Blackpool would have an at-least bi-hourly service service as well (probably hourly; alternating with Lancaster if bi-hourly). Lastly, they could introduce a second run between Brum and Scotland, which runs via Manchester (whether XC/TPE would like that is another matter).

Essentially, I propose this:

3tph EUS - MAN
3tph EUS - BHM
- 1 continues to SHR
- 1 continues to CTR
2tph EUS - LIV
1tph EUS - GLC
1tph EUS - BPN (or LAN)
1tph BHM - GLC
1tph BHM - EDB (via MAN)

 

[Daimler]

I think a major priority should be the introduction of a service connecting London with the North West which stops at rather more places than the current trains - alternating Blackpool/Lancaster seems to be a nice idea.

 

[TDK]

Shrewsbury- Euston would be nice but only if Wolves to Salop gets wired then a couple of Pendo's from Oxley could go ECS to Salop in the morning to start with a couple back in the evening, not sure how it would work with 221's as the 1st class does make money on the Brum-London jobs in the peaks.

They will be lucky to get a path as the train will only be able to go into P4 and occupy if for to long and unless DB get the WCML I cannot see DB arriva giving up any paths like they did in the past.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd like to see the following (instead of just agreeing with the points above I thought I'd add a couple more)

1. Electrification from Crewe to Chester, so that the Chester servics could be EMU
2. Integration with LM (since both TOCs will be running London - Liverpool and both will be running Birmingham - Preston)
3. Integration with the TPE services through Preston, once the Bolton line is electrified
4. Possibly taking over the Birmingham - Manchester route too (why waste precious Voyagers on it when its wholly electrified? potential for Manchester - Bristol via Shrewsbury like back in the old days)

How do you work out Manchester Bristol, that will never be a part of the WCML franchise

 

[WatcherZero]

As liverpool length (and according to some forecasts possibly demand) would be an issue how about running Liverpool services with a splitting service with 1tph continuing to Liverpool while the other half alternated between Blackpool and Lancaster? the benefits of high frequency without wasted capacity.