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Crossrail - Through Running confirmed for November

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thomalex

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Queuing to get down the escalators at Liverpool St this evening
Needs some people to realise that they can get in at the Moorgate end.

The one down escalator at the Liverpool Street entrance is a major oversight that is only going to get more overcrowded with time and an ongoing problem. It's amazing how with all the crowd predicting technology that will have been used in planning they've ended up with with a situation anyone could have predicted. They've left space for an extra escalator at the Dean Street entrance at TCR but not at Liverpool Street. What exactly is the thinking here?

Agree more people could use Moorgate (they don't even have an Elizabeth Line roundel here do they?) but Liverpool Street given it's a major rail terminus and the name of the station will always have the main flow.
 
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ijmad

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Fast Stratford / Canary Wharf - Paddington! All those other core stations are ultimately managed by London Underground and didn’t open until circa 0700.

Elizabeth Line Express? That must have been fun! Unless you're actually trying to get somewhere...

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The one down escalator at the Liverpool Street entrance is a major oversight that is only going to get more overcrowded with time and an ongoing problem. It's amazing how with all the crowd predicting technology that will have been used in planning they've ended up with with a situation anyone could have predicted. They've left space for an extra escalator at the Dean Street entrance at TCR but not at Liverpool Street. What exactly is the thinking here?

Agree more people could use Moorgate (they don't even have an Elizabeth Line roundel here do they?) but Liverpool Street given it's a major rail terminus and the name of the station will always have the main flow.

I think the middle one is supposed to be rush direction rather than always down. It was configured as an 'up' in the evenings for mot of the last 6 months because so many people were interchanging for the Shenfield services. Now that so many people are heading down would it be better if they switch the direction? Or are there still a lot of people coming upstairs for other Liverpool St services in the evening peak?

I have said it before though, I personally feel like some of the stations don't have enough escalators at the 'popular' end.
 
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ScotGG

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I see another very tall skyscraper proposed near the Liverpool Street end too. That'll be thousands more workers not just in offices but other related businesses that side of the station.
 

Goldfish62

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The one down escalator at the Liverpool Street entrance is a major oversight that is only going to get more overcrowded with time and an ongoing problem. It's amazing how with all the crowd predicting technology that will have been used in planning they've ended up with with a situation anyone could have predicted. They've left space for an extra escalator at the Dean Street entrance at TCR but not at Liverpool Street. What exactly is the thinking here?

Agree more people could use Moorgate (they don't even have an Elizabeth Line roundel here do they?) but Liverpool Street given it's a major rail terminus and the name of the station will always have the main flow.
I'm sure people will quickly cotton on that it's quicker to come out of Liv St mainline station and use the Broadgate entrance instead.
 

matt_world2004

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I see another very tall skyscraper proposed near the Liverpool Street end too. That'll be thousands more workers not just in offices but other related businesses that side of the station.
It will be the responsibility of the property developer to ensure that the skyscraper does not result in undue pressure on the public transport even if that means them funding new escalators or new entrances.
 

theking

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How on earth did they think this would have coped pre pandemic.

It can't even handle peak now, having to let trains go because you can't get on.

Rubbish station layouts worse and slower journeys for some existing customers.

Whitechapel is a joke, two tiny staircases at the end of the overground platforms then when you finally fight your way to the top you then have to fight your way past everyone at the bottom of the escalators when two trains turn up and tip out and and everyone is trying to pile onto the escalators from both sides.

Why on earth it hasn't got a central passageway between platforms like the other stations so some people could walk down that rather than one in and out.
 

matt_world2004

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How on earth did they think this would have coped pre pandemic.

It can't even handle peak now, having to let trains go because you can't get on.

Rubbish station layouts worse and slower journeys for some existing customers.

Whitechapel is a joke, two tiny staircases at the end of the overground platforms then when you finally fight your way to the top you then have to fight your way past everyone at the bottom of the escalators when two trains turn up and tip out and and everyone is trying to pile onto the escalators from both sides.

Why on earth it hasn't got a central passageway between platforms like the other stations so some people could walk down that rather than one in and out.
The demand levels on the Elizabeth line are higher than pre pandemic modelling suggested they would be by 213% iirc they hugely undercoated demand from the west and east based on ticketing data...
 

coppercapped

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The demand levels on the Elizabeth line are higher than pre pandemic modelling suggested they would be by 213% iirc they hugely undercoated demand from the west and east based on ticketing data...
An interesting statistic. Do you have any references you can quote as I have not seen anything published? Which does not mean they have not been published, only that I have not seen them.
 

lawried123

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This may seem harsh, but don't underestimate people's knowledge and experience.

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I don't doubt that passengers are knowledgeable and experienced, but how do they know without having to consult a timetable (which doesn't seem to exist posted in either station) whether the next train to somewhere like Twyford goes from the main line or the Elizabeth line.
 

brewer85

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I don't doubt that passengers are knowledgeable and experienced, but how do they know without having to consult a timetable (which doesn't seem to exist posted in either station) whether the next train to somewhere like Twyford goes from the main line or the Elizabeth line.
Most passengers would check on their phone, I think.
 

Failed Unit

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My un-scientific observations in the peak (from the Moorgate end of Liverpoool Street)

I can understand the people heading to Shenfield not being happy (if they are starting at Liverpool Street). Every train came in full so no seats. However they didn't leave crush loaded either. So as others have stated you will be very lucky to get a seat now when you used to be a the beginning of the line.

All Westbound services going beyond Paddington were full, (again not crush loaded). They were full before arriving at Liverpool Street with possibly about as many getting on as got off. The train I got aboard was a Heathrow service so some heavy baggage was on board. But watching the previous Reading service pass through it was also full.

Seems to be doing the job it was intended. A lot of people changing at Farrington for Thameslink.

As other have commented reliability isnt the best and dwell times do seem long, but I am sure it will settle down.
 

samuelmorris

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People are massively overestimating the intelligence of travellers. Despite clear and regular (if mis-spelled) announcements audibly and visually about the train's destination, only when at Whitechapel when the manual announcement is made that people need to get off and change for 'Abby Wood' do suddenly several people in each carriage panic and rush to get off.

I haven't yet had too much difficulty with crowds, yes it's standing room only from Liverpool Street when it wasn't before, but honestly I've yet to experience being unable to sit beyond Forest Gate yet, it's not as bad as the 315 days when you'd be waiting all the way to Romford before you can sit down. That said, the bonus dwells at Pudding Mill Lane are maddening. A crush loaded train has to sit for over 3 minutes with people sweating away, when Stratford platform 8 is empty. Why don't they have the gratuitous extra dwell in a station? Why is it in one of the least comfortable places on the route?
 

DC1989

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I haven't yet had too much difficulty with crowds, yes it's standing room only from Liverpool Street when it wasn't before, but honestly I've yet to experience being unable to sit beyond Forest Gate yet, it's not as bad as the 315 days when you'd be waiting all the way to Romford before you can sit down.
The trains going from/to East London are very busy now indeed. Though not yet people literally fighting to get on as happened frequently with the 315s.

As time goes on I do wonder if trains every 6 minutes will cut it. They are building 10,000s of flats near many stations, almost all with barely any parking to comply with the latest London plan.

Still, busy trains are a good thing.
 

theking

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Why have they removed the 4 trans per hour peak into and out of the high level at Liverpool Street surely they have the drivers and stock as this was planned well before any covid excuses could be used.

I don't know why we accept crush loaded trains as the norm if there's an opportunity to give people a better experience.
 

ijmad

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Why have they removed the 4 trans per hour peak into and out of the high level at Liverpool Street surely they have the drivers and stock as this was planned well before any covid excuses could be used.

I don't know why we accept crush loaded trains as the norm if there's an opportunity to give people a better experience.

Adding new services to the GEML has to be coordinated with the National Rail timetable change, Dec is too soon, but some might be brought in at the May change? Also the wait times at Westbourne Park on the GWML. Plus a few 345s are still in 7 car configuration waiting to be lengthened meaning they do not quite have the full stock for the complete service pattern yet.
 

LLivery

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Elizabeth Line Express? That must have been fun! Unless you're actually trying to get somewhere...

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I think the middle one is supposed to be rush direction rather than always down. It was configured as an 'up' in the evenings for mot of the last 6 months because so many people were interchanging for the Shenfield services. Now that so many people are heading down would it be better if they switch the direction? Or are there still a lot of people coming upstairs for other Liverpool St services in the evening peak?

I have said it before though, I personally feel like some of the stations don't have enough escalators at the 'popular' end.

Escalators were two down, one up this evening peak. Don't think I've ever seen that before, anywhere.
 

Horizon22

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Escalators were two down, one up this evening peak. Don't think I've ever seen that before, anywhere.

Happened at Paddington and Liverpool Street a few times. Obviously the risk is with sub-surface stations that you just shift the overcrowding to a more confined space.
 

LLivery

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Happens every night at St Pancras Low Level!

Ah, I hadn't noticed, but there is the staircase too

Did it help?

Very busy at 17:30, but no queues to get down. The most difficult bit is crossing the flow of people coming up when you come through the Broad St-Blomfield Street entrance

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Happened at Paddington and Liverpool Street a few times. Obviously the risk is with sub-surface stations that you just shift the overcrowding to a more confined space.

It does cross your mind... There was staff at the top of the second escalators, assuming for this reason. From my experience commuting, the platforms aren't bad, but the walkways aren't wonderful.
 

Backroom_boy

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Whitechapel is a joke, two tiny staircases at the end of the overground platforms then when you finally fight your way to the top you then have to fight your way past everyone at the bottom of the escalators when two trains turn up and tip out and and everyone is trying to pile onto the escalators from both sides.
Yes at the top of the escalater I think a curved metal railing like at Farringdon would help
 

otter11

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I rode the line westbound on Wednesday and made a few observations (some have already been stated).

Firstly the positives:
- when I visited everything was running like clockwork. It felt like a clean, safe, modern railway fit for the future. Appreciate that I was travelling off peak and loadings were probably lighter than normal due to the cancelled strike.

- Usage was very good already, even in the off peak. People seem to have figured out what’s going on and it’s clearly providing a very convenient service for many.

Now the less positives:
- I know this has been discussed to death on here, but we were at a stand for 4 minutes at Westbourne Park and then a further 4 minutes in Paddington itself. I know this is timetabled and is ‘temporary’, however this doesn’t stop it being frustrating. Despite the drivers announcement, I could see lots of people sighing/looking at watches. I think it will give the impression to many average commuters that the line is slow/not reliable (even though we on here know that isn’t the case)

- The above isn’t helped by the long dwell at every central station. At Stratford for example, after we arrived, an adjacent central line service pulled in, opened doors, closed doors, and departed all a good minute before our train left.
Does anyone know if the dwells will be shortened in May? I appreciate they won’t want to sacrifice reliability but when compared to tube services it does feel sluggish.

- Between Acton and Paddington, the screens all went blank and passenger information stopped. I presume this is a bug which will be fixed. They didn’t come on again until about a minute after arrival at Paddington. This meant no announcement that we were arriving at Paddington. Due to the slightly dark lighting levels, one couple almost missed the stop because the didn’t realise we were at Paddington until they walked to the doors and peered out.

- I agree with all the comments on here that the display screens in carriage should show a list of all calling points, rather than just the first 2/3. Or alternatively they could just have a message at the bottom saying ‘not stopping at X, Y, Z’ which would probably do the trick fine.

- I agree as well that the red strikethrough is not a clear way of indicating the stopping pattern on the platform edge doors. In fact, the red lines are faint enough that from a short distance you actually can’t see them at all, and thus it looks like the train IS stopping at Acton Main Line, Hanwell etc.
Rebranding some services as All Stations/ Semi Fast could be a good way to solve this if the timetable was consistent enough.

- the in-carriage maps really are too small. It doesn’t feel well designed - above the doors is a very wide space but only around 60% of it is used by the map - if the map extended the full length of the doors it could be much bigger and clearer. It doesn’t help that they are also trying to squeeze a central London tube map on the same panel, which is really tiny! I would suggest moving the central London tube map to another advert panel, and leaving the full width above the door for a larger crossrail map. I also agree that the notes about some services leaving from Paddington or Liverpool Street main line is unnecessary clutter on the in carriage map - this would be better conveyed by announcements/signage at stations.
If the messages must stay, I would suggest removing the dashed lines to Paddington/LST high level as these are the biggest source of clutter for a ‘normal’ user.

Overall I think these are minor points which I’m sure will be sorted out, and overall it’s a great railway (and will be even greater in May)
 

Horizon22

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One thing I’ve noticed is that there are actually 3 times of car line diagrams
  1. Larger ones with just the diagram (Stratford - Shenfield is horizontal)
  2. Smaller ones with just the diagram (Stratford - Shenfield at 45 degrees)
  3. Diagram with the Central London tube map
For 2&3 they are a tad small and the blue box is microscopic above Paddington and Liverpool Street high level.
 

DC1989

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The maps look terrible because of the zoning boxes. Why do they need that? They seem to overcomplicate the simple things

It just needs to be like this - and in full block purple!

1668172608585.png
 

otter11

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The maps look terrible because of the zoning boxes. Why do they need that? They seem to overcomplicate the simple things

It just needs to be like this - and in full block purple!

View attachment 123682
This looks so much clearer. The branches to Liverpool Street and Paddington high level clutter it up so much, and confuse the notion of it being a core railway through the centre.
 

Acton1991

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The maps look terrible because of the zoning boxes. Why do they need that? They seem to overcomplicate the simple things

It just needs to be like this - and in full block purple!
Totally agree! We don't need zonal maps in-car. And if that is completely necessary, they should revert to a longer diagram with blue zonal boxes underneath as per the Tube. It's a mess at the moment.
 

thomalex

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It just needs to be like this - and in full block purple!

100% agree with that, the current implementation using the double line on the service itself is simply wrong.

Elizabeth line appears double lined on the tube map as it is a different 'mode', see Overground, DLR etc. But when you are on that mode it should appear as a solid line. They've got this correct on the station line diagrams just not the ones on the trains.
 

danielcanning

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Travelling on the line earlier I’ve noticed that smaller stations such as Acton Main Line are considerably busier than last week, are passengers now making the switch from the Central line?
 

thomalex

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Travelling on the line earlier I’ve noticed that smaller stations such as Acton Main Line are considerably busier than last week, are passengers now making the switch from the Central line?

Seems to be that way. I guess just going to Paddington wasn't that useful with the additional change, straight through to Bond Street etc though is the game changer. It's also a much more comfortable way to travel (aside from the rock hard seats).
 

43066

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100% agree with that, the current implementation using the double line on the service itself is simply wrong.

Elizabeth line appears double lined on the tube map as it is a different 'mode', see Overground, DLR etc. But when you are on that mode it should appear as a solid line. They've got this correct on the station line diagrams just not the ones on the trains.

I spotted this en route from Manor Park to Farringdon earlier this week - the map implied Whitechapel is on on a separate branch. Very confusing.
 
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