Crossrail - Through Running confirmed for November

[Bald Rick]

I think the issue is more a general 'running around' thing, which has higher chance of safety issues (tripping, running into someone, etc.) rather than whether a gamble is 'worth' taking.

Don’t run then!

 

[Sunil_P]

You don't need to run at Paddington:

 

[cactustwirly]

You don't need to run at Paddington:

Do any of the screens show calling points?
Like the Met line for example?

Some of the peak services on the western end skip stops, so it could be confusing if they didn't show it

 

[Horizon22]

Do any of the screens show calling points?
Like the Met line for example?

Some of the peak services on the western end skip stops, so it could be confusing if they didn't show it

The next train indicators on the platforms do.

 

[hkstudent]

I must say I was quite impressed with how it all went particularly on Sunday.
The only comment I would make is that of course trains to stations like Twyford now leave from two different places at Paddington, the high-level and the Elizabeth line. On Sunday at the mainline station the next Twyford train was shown in 50 minutes time, but nothing to indicate to to passengers that there was likely to be a train sooner than that downstairs.
When I then enquired downstairs whether there were any time tables on display to show the times of the Reading trains (on a 30 minute headway) they said there weren't and you just had to wait till a Reading train appeared on the departure lists above the doors. So you could well be waiting for nearly half an hour when there was actually a train going from Paddington main line in that time
I know at Kings Cross they show trains from st. Pancras to destinations also served from King's Cross so that you know whether it's any better to nip across to st. Pancras. But there doesn't seem to be anything similar at Paddington.

That would really require a coordinated approach between MTR Crossrail and Network Rail in regarding to displaying train info.
With the case at Farringdon, both GTR only display screen and Elizabeth Line are on side-by-side, but that's due to the National Rail side concourse serving both Thameslink and Elizabeth Line.
What you would likely need is: Network Rail installing some extra Elizabeth Line display boards, while Elizabeth Line Liverpool Street and Paddington would require the NR display board.
Some complaints to Network Rail may help, but really depends on whether someone high up can see those comments.

 

[matt_world2004]

I think the in car diagrams should show a solid line like the overground even though the diagram on the main tube map show a dashed line.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

2) if you are going to any other station, then running is a low stakes high return gamble - for the price of a short run you either catch your train (big win), or find it’s not your train and either catch it to the next stop and change, or just wait at TCR for your train, losing nothing. On the current service, eastbound it’s an even chance of a win, westbound the odds vary depending where you are heading west of Paddington, but the prize of winning is also much bigger (Especially for passengers to Twyford, and Heathrow terminals 4 or 5.)

That's correct, but it seems to me that's looking at things purely from a functional, how-long-will-the-journey-take point of view, and neglecting the desirability of giving passengers a pleasant journey that doesn't make them feel frustrated. Personally I'm quite happy to run - to my mind, extra exercise is usually good! But realistically, there are large numbers of people who don't like running, and will basically run only if they have to. And running to catch a train, only to discover that it wasn't your train anyway is going to be a frustrating experience for most people [1]. Sure, it won't delay them getting to their destination but not providing the information to them to tell them whether they need to run to get their train it's inconsiderate nonetheless. Yes, I know it's only a very minor thing, but then sticking a departure screen in the concourse is also a very minor thing, the cost of which I imagine would be insignificant next to the cost of building the station.

Slightly more serious is that by not providing a screen, it means that more people will run than otherwise would have been the case (probably almost twice as many people), which inevitably will lead to more minor accidents.

[1] Although not as frustrating as the opposite... Not running because you weren't sure whether it was your train or not, only to discover that it was and you've now just missed it!

 

[Horizon22]

That's correct, but it seems to me that's looking at things purely from a functional, how-long-will-the-journey-take point of view, and neglecting the desirability of giving passengers a pleasant journey that doesn't make them feel frustrated. Personally I'm quite happy to run - to my mind, extra exercise is usually good! But realistically, there are large numbers of people who don't like running, and will basically run only if they have to. And running to catch a train, only to discover that it wasn't your train anyway is going to be a frustrating experience for most people [1]. Sure, it won't delay them getting to their destination but not providing the information to them to tell them whether they need to run to get their train it's inconsiderate nonetheless. Yes, I know it's only a very minor thing, but then sticking a departure screen in the concourse is also a very minor thing, the cost of which I imagine would be insignificant next to the cost of building the station.

Slightly more serious is that by not providing a screen, it means that more people will run than otherwise would have been the case (probably almost twice as many people), which inevitably will lead to more minor accidents.

[1] Although not as frustrating as the opposite... Not running because you weren't sure whether it was your train or not, only to discover that it was and you've now just missed it!

You've contradicted yourself a bit there - why are they running if "they have to" yet you've shown that they don't have to as they have no idea either way.

Besides running around escalators (and stations altogether really) is discouraged, which is why the concourse information screens remove the next train info earlier than the usual 2 minutes you might expect from a London terminal. The central passageway is not the concourse.

 

[ijmad]

Seen at Ilford:

View attachment 123532

I think I prefer the the map in the 345s that clearly show the two Paddingtons and two Liverpool Streets are walkable connections. This map makes them look like entirely different stations.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

You've contradicted yourself a bit there - why are they running if "they have to" yet you've shown that they don't have to as they have no idea either way.

No, no contradiction. People are going to run because they see a train and they don't know if it's their train or not, and they really don't want to end up missing the train if it is their train. So they feel obliged to run because they have no information.

Besides running around escalators (and stations altogether really) is discouraged, which is why the concourse information screens remove the next train info earlier than the usual 2 minutes you might expect from a London terminal. The central passageway is not the concourse.

OK, yeah, when I said concourse, I meant the central passageway. Wasn't sure of the correct terminology, but I think/hope people would know from the context what I meant

 

[MikeWh]

Admittedly getting to the Spitalfields side is harder but there are comparatively fewer offices there.

Some people may benefit from changing at Whitechapel onto the Overground to Shoreditch High Street.

 

[Horizon22]

OK, yeah, when I said concourse, I meant the central passageway. Wasn't sure of the correct terminology, but I think/hope people would know from the context what I meant

Yes but there are passenger information displays in the actual concourse. Nowhere else on the London Underground do you see information displays until you reach the platform after leaving the concourse - in fact the platform is often the only time you see them - so I don't see why this would be strange behaviour.

 

[Acton1991]

Delays and cancellations this morning due to a broken down train. Not a great start!

 

[thomalex]

Does anyone know why these trains keep breaking down. Is it something to do with the complex signalling rather than mechanical faults on the train itself?

 

[pdeaves]

Don’t run then!

That's why additional information might be helpful, to reduce the temptation to run. It doesn't bother me personally; I can run or walk and other people cannot tell the difference!

 

[James H]

Nowhere else on the London Underground do you see information displays until you reach the platform after leaving the concourse - in fact the platform is often the only time you see them - so I don't see why this would be strange behaviour

That's not quite true - some stations do have ticket hall-level departure screens. Elephant & Castle comes to mind but there are others too.

 

[Sunil_P]

Chigwell has a departures screen in the ticket office area, despite, or maybe because, of the 20min. frequency.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Yes but there are passenger information displays in the actual concourse. Nowhere else on the London Underground do you see information displays until you reach the platform after leaving the concourse - in fact the platform is often the only time you see them - so I don't see why this would be strange behaviour.

A display in the actual concourse is fine if you're entering the station at TCR, but if you're changing from the Northern line (which is what I'm almost always doing if I'm at Tottenham Court Road), then you won't normally ever go to the actual concourse.

 

[pelli]

Nowhere else on the London Underground do you see information displays until you reach the platform after leaving the concourse

I do recall having seen departure displays in a passageway, and looking up videos of Bank Station confirms that they exist when leaving the Northern Line for the Central Line, in both the old and new interchange passageways, but I guess you wouldn't pass these on the way from the gateline to the platform, unless you're entering from Monument The following screenshots are taken at 0:07 and at 0:37 in this IanVisits video:

 

[Horizon22]

Does anyone know why these trains keep breaking down. Is it something to do with the complex signalling rather than mechanical faults on the train itself?

It’s often signalling issues. Transitions into the central section aren’t perfect.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I don't think its entirely through running though - Reading to Shenfield I believe is May 2023.

 

[Goldfish62]

Does anyone know why these trains keep breaking down. Is it something to do with the complex signalling rather than mechanical faults on the train itself?

They're Aventras...

 

[iphone76]

The main problem is the transition from TPWS to CBTC (still). The automatic system still isn't reliable enough to be signed off, so after coming to a stand on Platform 5 at Stratford, the driver manually selects CBTC. Unfortunately, over the past few days, this has failed to transition correctly, so the train is diverted to Liverpool Street High Level to avoid delaying the service too much.

I also believe there was an issue with a train at Westbourne Park and later at Romford.

 

[Horizon22]

The main problem is the transition from TPWS to CBTC (still). The automatic system still isn't reliable enough to be signed off, so after coming to a stand on Platform 5 at Stratford, the driver manually selects CBTC. Unfortunately, over the past few days, this has failed to transition correctly, so the train is diverted to Liverpool Street High Level to avoid delaying the service too much.

I also believe there was an issue with a train at Westbourne Park and later at Romford.

Yes at least at Stratford there is the option to divert to Liverpool Street and clear the line but at Westbourne Park there is nowhere further to go and can - at least for a short while - block the route into the turnbacks it seems.

The last two days have been trains from the West with this issue in the morning which causes a lot more congestion. At last count about 10 each day are going into Liverpool St High Level.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2022 ==

I don't think its entirely through running though - Reading to Shenfield I believe is May 2023.

Don’t think anything is going to run Reading - Shenfield. Heathrow - Shenfield is more likely.

 

[345 050]

Yes at least at Stratford there is the option to divert to Liverpool Street and clear the line but at Westbourne Park there is nowhere further to go and can - at least for a short while - block the route into the turnbacks it seems.

The last two days have been trains from the West with this issue in the morning which causes a lot more congestion. At last count about 10 each day are going into Liverpool St High Level.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2022 ==



Don’t think anything is going to run Reading - Shenfield. Heathrow - Shenfield is more likely.

I suppose at least the trains behind the failed train could be diverted into Paddington high level. Better than nothing but of course it will starve Abbey Wood of trains!

 

[grandgarrande]

Re: Running for trains, passengers run for the Victoria line which has a departure every 100 seconds.

Re: Shenfield - Reading, it is unlikely that direct trains to Shenfield to Heathrow will occur. Canary Wharf Group contributed £500m for direct trains from Canary Wharf to Heathrow. Also at maximum there will be 2tph East to West.

 

[ijmad]

I suppose at least the trains behind the failed train could be diverted into Paddington high level. Better than nothing but of course it will starve Abbey Wood of trains!

Unless it's paired with a reserve replacement from Westbourne Park sidings

 

[DC1989]

Re: Shenfield - Reading, it is unlikely that direct trains to Shenfield to Heathrow will occur. Canary Wharf Group contributed £500m for direct trains from Canary Wharf to Heathrow. Also at maximum there will be 2tph East to West.

There's lots of expectation from the eastern side that there will be direct trains both to Heathrow and Reading

 

[345 050]

Unless it's paired with a reserve replacement from Westbourne Park sidings

Yes but if the up line was blocked, they would struggle to get additional trains to Abbey Wood. I suppose they might be able to use the down line instead, but that would conflict with westbound services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2022 ==

There's lots of expectation from the eastern side that there will be direct trains both to Heathrow and Reading

That needs to be managed..... Not expecting a huge number of trains to do that.

 

[matt_world2004]

There's lots of expectation from the eastern side that there will be direct trains both to Heathrow and Reading

Considering only 4 trains per hour go to Reading anyway. Would the would the people of Shenfield really put up with an hourly or less service to Reading